Mopar LCA Question

[DadJokes]

Yeah a track bar would be suspension as it laterally locates the axles. Everything from the steering wheel to the tie rod comes to mind for steering components. .

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[AnnDee4444]

Track bars are suspension components, not steering components. Why do you think you have one in the rear of it's a steering component? Would you consider adjustable LCAs to be a steering component? While adjusting them can have profound affects on steering they are most definitely a suspension component.

I guess I just don't compartmentalize steering vs. suspension 'components' since just about everything in the suspension has an effect on steering.

 

[Nickz]

@o@

 

[Roky]

I guess I just don't compartmentalize steering vs. suspension 'components' since just about everything in the suspension has an effect on steering.

Suspension components do have an effect on steering, so does tire pressure. But if doesn’t directly move the front wheels then it’s a suspension component. Steering box, pitman arm, drag link , tie rod are steering components. The steering stabilizer being the grey area since it attaches to frame and tie rod. Kinda like France, not on anyone’s side........

 

[JDM]

Nothing really to expand on. Op asked if not replacing the rear TB would cause a harsh ride. Word answered with a simple no.

Basically the rear TB will center the axle under the Jeep from side to side. When you lift it, you’re effectively shortening it causing it to pull the axle closer to the frame. Doesn’t really affect ride at all

Brett

Actually a track bar will affect the ride or better yet play a critical role in the perceived harshness, vibration and noise that is felt and heard. Tires, springs and shocks are often the focus when considering the ride but another key component are the bushings in the track bar and for that matter any component that has bushings.

Hard bushings will transmit shock Which will be felt as harshness in the ride, soft bushings will not. The difference can be readily felt. However, if the bushings are too soft then there will be too much play which will result in other unwanted characteristics, such as wobble.

The primary use of the Jeep will determine the best option. If its primarily on road and wife acceptance a good quality rubber type would be recommended. The newer dual durometer bushings as are used by Clayton Off Road and Synergy are great options and I have replaced all but the front UCA‘s in my JL and the difference was not small at all In handling and ride.

 

[AnnDee4444]

Actually a track bar will affect the ride or better yet play a critical role in the perceived harshness, vibration and noise that is felt and heard. Tires, springs and shocks are often the focus when considering the ride but another key component are the bushings in the track bar and for that matter any component that has bushings.

Hard bushings will transmit shock Which will be felt as harshness in the ride, soft bushings will not. The difference can be readily felt. However, if the bushings are too soft then there will be too much play which will result in other unwanted characteristics, such as wobble.

The primary use of the Jeep will determine the best option. If its primarily on road and wife acceptance a good quality rubber type would be recommended. The newer dual durometer bushings as are used by Clayton Off Road and Synergy are great options and I have replaced all but the front UCA‘s in my JL and the difference was not small at all In handling and ride.

I suspect the angle of the track bar would also influence how much of the bushing harshness is felt. A relatively level track bar wouldn't have as much horizontal movement as one at a greater angle.

 

[AnnDee4444]

Suspension components do have an effect on steering, so does tire pressure. But if doesn’t directly move the front wheels then it’s a suspension component. Steering box, pitman arm, drag link , tie rod are steering components. The steering stabilizer being the grey area since it attaches to frame and tie rod. Kinda like France, not on anyone’s side........

I'll concede, the track bar is not a steering component. Also it's Switzerland that is neutral... France is (probably incorrectly) accused of surrendering easily.

 

[JDM]

I suspect the angle of the track bar would also influence how much of the bushing harshness is felt. A relatively level track bar wouldn't have as much horizontal movement as one at a greater angle.

You are correct.

So now the question that will often be raised amounts to “what can I get away with?” “Do I need adjustable components?” Geometry like physics is very unforgiving so the answer to question 1. Is; nothing, and question 2. Is; YES.

Really the questions that we often struggle with are not the ones above. The real question is; “What am I willing to put up with???” The answer to that question is subjective and varies from person to person. Not to mention the budget which also can be very unforgiving and varies from person to person!

 

[AnnDee4444]

You are correct.

So now the question that will often be raised amounts to “what can I get away with?” “Do I need adjustable components?” Geometry like physics is very unforgiving so the answer to question 1. Is; nothing, and question 2. Is; YES.

Really the questions that we often struggle with are not the ones above. The real question is; “What am I willing to put up with???” The answer to that question is subjective and varies from person to person. Not to mention the budget which also can be very unforgiving and varies from person to person!

I wonder why no company has released a drop pitman/track bar bracket yet.

Actually now that I think about it, raising the other end of the trackbar/drag link upwards would probably work better at not putting more leverage on the steering box mounts, while also raising the roll center instead of lowering it. Synergy's products can do this... interesting that they are only being marketed as high clearance steering and nothing about the roll-center.

 

[AnnDee4444]

I wonder why no company has released a drop pitman/track bar bracket yet.

Actually now that I think about it, raising the other end of the trackbar/drag link upwards would probably work better at not putting more leverage on the steering box mounts, while also raising the roll center instead of lowering it. Synergy's products can do this... interesting that they are only being marketed as high clearance steering and nothing about the roll-center.

There's some pretty big compromises with this kit though:

Relocation of the drag link to the top of the knuckle for high steer requires 3 inch bump stop spacers, front track bar relocation bracket, and wheels with proper backspacing. ​

 

[JDM]

I wonder why no company has released a drop pitman/track bar bracket yet.

Actually now that I think about it, raising the other end of the trackbar/drag link upwards would probably work better at not putting more leverage on the steering box mounts, while also raising the roll center instead of lowering it. Synergy's products can do this... interesting that they are only being marketed as high clearance steering and nothing about the roll-center.

There's some pretty big compromises with this kit though:

Relocation of the drag link to the top of the knuckle for high steer requires 3 inch bump stop spacers, front track bar relocation bracket, and wheels with proper backspacing. ​

Now were getting into understanding the geometry of 3 link and 4 link suspensions and calculating anti dive, anti squat and roll center at a specific height for a specific purpose. If we were to build for say rock crawling the least of our concerns would be ride and high speed handling. If we were to build a three link suspension (has a track bar) for rock crawling AND every day highway driving then we would have some pretty big challenges to work around and we would have to accept some limitations especially if we are building with a budget.

In the context of the above there is a measure of truth to “it’s a Jeep thing”, technically it’s a 3 or 4 link suspension thing. But NOT to the extent of some of the issues that many have to deal with. While a couple of degrees of caster won‘t matter in rock crawling, at highway speeds it most definitely will. A half a degree of cross caster can make a huge difference in eliminating pull as a consequence of the crown of a road.

If you have adjustable control arms, and an adjustable track bar with good quality bushings minor adjustments can be made for varying heights and road conditions that will make a huge difference. A high steer kit is not a bad idea if you really want to go tall.

The above is a basic summary at best. There are many other factors and variables to take into account.

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