Camber or Thrust angle causing pull?

[PunknPi]

I have a pull to the right and wondering if anyone has an "ah-ha!" moment as to which one of my issues is why...

I took this to both an independent alignment shop who had it for 8 hours and said it didn't pull like a typical alignment issue. then I took it directly to jeep where I had the TSB done where they replace the steering box to the steel one and had them check the alignment issue. This is their diagnostic picture. the Jeep tech told me, as you can see where he circled it, that its the thrust angle. But it really "feels" like its in the front end. But I'm just not sure.

I have adjustable upper and lower arms in front. Adjustable track bar front and rear.

I understand I cannot change the thrust angle with the track bar in the rear, and this can only come from adjustable arms ( would I need both upper and lower back there or just one?)

As far as the camber, I am looking at the "Specialty Products Company Camber Sleeves" They go from 0-1.25 deg. I have no problem picking these up and getting them installed but I dont quite get the math from my alignment readout to which sleeves would get this corrected.

Obviously a couple issues here, but any insight would be helpful.

Thanks!

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[Roky]

I have a pull to the right and wondering if anyone has an "ah-ha!" moment as to which one of my issues is why...

I took this to both an independent alignment shop who had it for 8 hours and said it didn't pull like a typical alignment issue. then I took it directly to jeep where I had the TSB done where they replace the steering box to the steel one and had them check the alignment issue. This is their diagnostic picture. the Jeep tech told me, as you can see where he circled it, that its the thrust angle. But it really "feels" like its in the front end. But I'm just not sure.

I have adjustable upper and lower arms in front. Adjustable track bar front and rear.

I understand I cannot change the thrust angle with the track bar in the rear, and this can only come from adjustable arms ( would I need both upper and lower back there or just one?)

As far as the camber, I am looking at the "Specialty Products Company Camber Sleeves" They go from 0-1.25 deg. I have no problem picking these up and getting them installed but I dont quite get the math from my alignment readout to which sleeves would get this corrected.

Obviously a couple issues here, but any insight would be helpful.

Thanks!

You should get all 4 rear arms, and before you buy sleeves I’d make sure the ball joints are good…. They’ve been known to crap out early on the JLs…..

 

[firedude]

How many miles on your jeep? What tires and miles on them?

 

[Yellow Cake Kid]

When you say you have a pull to the right do you mean that you have to steer to the left to compensate?

A positive thrust angle is compensated for by steering to the right because the vehicle seems to pull to the left.

If your rear track bar isn't adjusted for the best fit, the result can appear as Thrust Angle with some measuring systems.

If the Jeep leans the axle can rear steer a bit, which also shows up as Thrust Angle with some measuring systems.

With my vehicles, I try to eliminate the most obvious causes for "pull" such as crosswind, road crown, and tire pressure, before trying to fix stuff that is unlikely to have come out of adjustment.



.

 

[JEEP4U]

Fix the obvious first...............Your front camber measurements are Fubar.

 

[Roky]

Was this Jeep in a wreck ? With fixed control arms in the rear and if your axle is perfectly centered then the thrust angle shouldn’t be off that bad unless it was whacked, or came off the line like that....Do you have the first alignment printout, wonder if it showed the same readings ?

 

[PunknPi]

How many miles on your jeep? What tires and miles on them?

41k miles, new tires

 

[PunknPi]

Was this Jeep in a wreck ? With fixed control arms in the rear and if your axle is perfectly centered then the thrust angle shouldn’t be off that bad unless it was whacked, or came off the line like that....Do you have the first alignment printout, wonder if it showed the same readings ?

Yes, first ones read very close to these. Carfax is clean, no accidents "reported" and I see no damage

 

[PunknPi]

Fix the obvious first...............Your front camber measurements are Fubar.

I would like to, but I dont know how with these sleeves. It seems the cheapest, quickest thing to start with.

 

[Old Jeeper]

I have a pull to the right and wondering if anyone has an "ah-ha!" moment as to which one of my issues is why...

I took this to both an independent alignment shop who had it for 8 hours and said it didn't pull like a typical alignment issue. then I took it directly to jeep where I had the TSB done where they replace the steering box to the steel one and had them check the alignment issue. This is their diagnostic picture. the Jeep tech told me, as you can see where he circled it, that its the thrust angle. But it really "feels" like its in the front end. But I'm just not sure.

I have adjustable upper and lower arms in front. Adjustable track bar front and rear.

I understand I cannot change the thrust angle with the track bar in the rear, and this can only come from adjustable arms ( would I need both upper and lower back there or just one?)

As far as the camber, I am looking at the "Specialty Products Company Camber Sleeves" They go from 0-1.25 deg. I have no problem picking these up and getting them installed but I dont quite get the math from my alignment readout to which sleeves would get this corrected.

Obviously a couple issues here, but any insight would be helpful.

Thanks!

WOW the front camber I am think the Delta between R & L is excessive. There is a 5 degree difference, that is a lot.

The question is this: What is the factory recommended Camber, your front axle you be +/- .1 and the front camber should always be =

Rear toe, should be a little tighter than the .5, I would shoot for the same I would run on the front, .3 spread if you can. You also want you Toe the same same on each side. .3 in front run .3 in the rear.

Front Toe: you have a difference of .15 and I would you could do a bit more spread about .3...remember the roads are curved. Longer wheelbase is more forgiving between the front and rear.

Get you camber fixed first, then everything should follow.

 

[PunknPi]

When you say you have a pull to the right do you mean that you have to steer to the left to compensate?

A positive thrust angle is compensated for by steering to the right because the vehicle seems to pull to the left.

If your rear track bar isn't adjusted for the best fit, the result can appear as Thrust Angle with some measuring systems.

If the Jeep leans the axle can rear steer a bit, which also shows up as Thrust Angle with some measuring systems.

With my vehicles, I try to eliminate the most obvious causes for "pull" such as crosswind, road crown, and tire pressure, before trying to fix stuff that is unlikely to have come out of adjustment.



.

You may be on to something here too.

Yes I have to steer left to compensate for the right pull. If I let go of the wheel at 60mph I can cross 3 lanes of traffic in a few hundred feet or quicker.

The rear track bar is not exacty centered but I have also read on here that the track bar does not change thrust angle. I measured the left wheel isabout 3/4" farther out than the right, so a 3/8" change could center this number.

 

[Roky]

You may be on to something here too.

Yes I have to steer left to compensate for the right pull. If I let go of the wheel at 60mph I can cross 3 lanes of traffic in a few hundred feet or quicker.

The rear track bar is not exacty centered but I have also read on here that the track bar does not change thrust angle. I measured the left wheel isabout 3/4" farther out than the right, so a 3/8" change could center this number.

Your front wheels are laying on their side and your rear axles is outta whack….I’m surprised the problem is only a pull…….and at 41 k I’d definitely look at the ball joints….Center up the axles, and address the camber then get it realigned, see where you’re at…… then if pull is still there you can address other things, but there’s no sense doing any of it until these issues are resolved…….

 

[AnnDee4444]

You should be able to see -3.1 degrees of camber... it should be pretty obvious when comparing to the angle of the rear. If it's not obvious, I'd get the alignment checked again (somewhere else). I question the rear camber measurements also...

 

[Yellow Cake Kid]

...I have also read on here that the track bar does not change thrust angle...

Yes, but maybe... no.

The axis of the axle may be perfectly perpendicular to the vehicle's long axis. Still, if its centerpoint sits off the vehicle's centerline it can be misinterpreted and reported as a Thrust Angle other than 0 degrees by the measuring systems.

A "Thrust Angle" measurement should not even be considered valid until it is reasonably certain that the axle is centered at resting height.

 

[PunknPi]

Makes sense. I ordered new ball joints today. I’m going to take this step by step to figure it out. Step 1 is adjust the rear track bar as it’s easiest. Step 2 is the ball joints. After these two I’ll get it checked again and then proceed to step if needed which is the adjustable rear control arms. Step 4 would be the camber sleeves.

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