A better V6?

[AnnDee4444]

The best six of all time (not limited to Jeeps) is GMC's Twin Six.

It was so good that BMW used it as inspiration for the M70 engine when they crammed two inline 6 M20 engines together, where they used dual everything for double the German complications (two ECUs, fuel pumps, fuel rails, distributors, mass air flow sensors, crankshaft position sensors, coolant temperature sensors, throttle bodies, and sometimes two alternators). This was so reliable that they added more camshafts and it was used in the McLaren F1... the best off-road rock crawler ever built.

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[Flip]

If we're talking about "A Better V6", why has no one brought up the EcoDiesel?

260 hp @ 3,600 rpm
442 lb-ft @ 1,400 rpm

I mean if you're looking for a sports car, you bought the wrong vehicle! However, if you bought a Wrangler to do JEEP things, there's nothing better than the V6 3.0 EcoDiesel!

ScottB would definitely agree.

 

[Zandcwhite]

Dauntless, maybe, but not the GM 3800 that lived on...

The 3800 was making 200hp in the Series II generation. 260hp out of a Series III with a factory supercharger.

Not that those numbers aren't woefully low by today's standards for that kind of displacement NA or otherwise, but those numbers were impressive into the early 2000's.

I like to think of GM's 3.6 as its successor, and a worthy one at that. The later iterations...a 3.6 I actually like!

Supercharged... and less output than the smaller pentastar. In a grand prix that weighed 3000 pounds it was good. In a 5k pound JL... hard no.

 

[NWJeepr]

Supercharged... and less output than the smaller pentastar. In a grand prix that weighed 3000 pounds it was good. In a 5k pound JL... hard no.

Oh, definitely not. Jeep already did that with the old Chrysler 3.8 in the JK. Very similar output to GM’s 3.8. Decent engine for reliability, but power output bordered on inadequate.

 

[JINO]

I'm also in the diesel boat.
Drove two 3.6s and while shopping for a new JL, I got to test drive the ecodiesel. Instantly fell in love with it. So much torque at low RPM.
After buying it, noticed it was getting 28 mpg and thought something was wrong with the gauge, as I'm thinking diesel trucks get horrible mpg. I googled it and found the ecodiesel has a 30 mpg rating.
When I added banks derringer, this thing was a beast. In 4hi, I launched better than my buddy in a charger scat many times. I think derringer adds 50hp and 70 lbs of torque? Something like that.

Here in southern California, I sometimes find diesel prices cheaper than 87 octane.

I can never go back to the 3.6 after driving the diesel. It feels so inadequate.

On 38x13.5x17 tires, I still average 20 mpg.

 

[Tyler88]

I thought I saw something a while ago say that the 3.6 was designed to eventually get direct injection which would boost power some but there is the whole possibility of carbon buildup going from port to direct injectors.

 

[dragoneggs]

While this is true, at least it's simple enough to bypass the mini ESS battery. Whereas, if you buy an eTorque, you're pretty much stuck with the entire system forever.

That would be really cool if someone found a way to "tune" the eTorque system just a little, but as much as aftermarket companies proactively avoid creating any products/services with the system, I highly doubt it would ever be a thing, even if it was possible.

The eTorque works really well for me. It's zippy off-the-line and shift points are nearly imperceptible, but otherwise, all the small 'cons' add up and greatly outweigh the very few and mostly negligible benefits. I really just wanted a v6 without it, but that wasn't possible at the time for whatever reason.

Curious, what do you believe are all the small ’cons’?

 

[Weaselee]

all the small 'cons' add up

Is there a list of cons? I’d like to prepare myself

 

[AFD]

Curious, what do you believe are all the small ’cons’?

Is there a list of cons? I’d like to prepare myself

Think I posted them on the first page of this thread, but mostly just minor things.

No support for doing a performance tune or adding a supercharger, no room to add an auxiliary gas tank or exhaust that uses a mid-section mini-muffler (Borla Climber), no feasible method of removing the system (like you can with the small ESS battery) and no real documentation on the pricing and process of replacing the 48V battery when it eventually craps out.

And to contrast that, the "pros" are also very minor - a small, unknown boost in torque off-the-line for a quarter wheel turn, fairly smooth start-up from ESS and smoothing out of the shift points with the auto transmission, and pretty much nothing else afaik. No real performance gains and no increase in fuel economy.

It's a neat system and seems to work well, but I just fail to see how any of those benefits would outweigh the added complexity and eventual repair costs after the 8-year EV warranty expires (48V battery, added coolant lines, belt-start generator) in addition to the other minor limitations I mentioned. Just seems like an unnecessary solution that doesn't really accomplish anything of substance imo.

 

[Ron Texas]

Think I posted them on the first page of this thread, but mostly just minor things.

No support for doing a performance tune or adding a supercharger, no room to add an auxiliary gas tank or exhaust that uses a mid-section mini-muffler (Borla Climber), no feasible method of removing the system (like you can with the small ESS battery) and no real documentation on the pricing and process of replacing the 48V battery when it eventually craps out.

And to contrast that, the "pros" are also very minor - a small, unknown boost in torque off-the-line for a quarter wheel turn, fairly smooth start-up from ESS and smoothing out of the shift points with the auto transmission, and pretty much nothing else afaik. No real performance gains and no increase in fuel economy.

It's a neat system and seems to work well, but I just fail to see how any of those benefits would outweigh the added complexity and eventual repair costs after the 8-year EV warranty expires (48V battery, added coolant lines, belt-start generator) in addition to the other minor limitations I mentioned. Just seems like an unnecessary solution that doesn't really accomplish anything of substance imo.

It's stuff like this which makes me wonder why I bother with forums at all.

 

[AFD]

It's stuff like this which makes me wonder why I bother with forums at all.

Was it something I said and if so, what exactly do you take issue with?

 

[Ron Texas]

Was it something I said and if so, what exactly do you take issue with?

All of it.

 

[AFD]

All of it.

And how so? What exactly did I say that was incorrect?

 

[Ratbert]

All of it.

It's stuff like this which makes me wonder why I bother with forums at all.

 

[Ron Texas]

It's stuff like this which makes me wonder why I bother with forums at all.

Maybe you shouldn't be bashing a great drivetrain that a lot of forum members own with factual misstatements and imaginary disadvantages. Your repeating me shows a lack of creativity.

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