A better V6?

[Deleted User 38384]

"A better V6?"

You know I was just talking with a good friend of mine about the Cummins B6.7 Octane... Diesel like low end torque, i-6, with all of the benefits of a gasoline engine, running on 87 octane!

I'll tell you this, I don't care where the Jeep world is at, or how shit the brand has gotten, if they ever pop one of those babies in our Wranglers, guarantee you that'll be on my Christmas list!!


That being said, a better V6 engine, of the ones already available, clearly is going to be the one that gives you the most well roundedness. Great highway mileage, great around town mileage, more than enough power off-roading, and efficiency when weighed down with a heavy load and bigger tires...

Who else is getting 21+ MPGs on 37" tires?
Anybody? No? Just us 3.0 EcoDiesel guys?

My engine weighs 5 lb less than the 392 does, but I'm getting significantly better MPGs than all of y'all on 37s! Did I mention significantly better low end torque for off-roading!?

Y'all are over here looking for a better V6, and there's already one slapping you in the face!

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[AnnDee4444]

Diesel is roughly 14.3% more energy dense than gasoline. From: https://www.eia.gov/kids/what-is-energy/energy-units-basics.php#:~:text=1 barrel and 1,and 137,381 Btu/gallon
Gasoline ≈ 120,214 Btu/gallon
Diesel ≈ 137,381 Btu/gallon



Weight (increased rolling resistance) has a negligible impact on mileage when not accelerating. Additional cargo weight results in a lower frontal area (less air resistance). Larger diameter tires have less rolling resistance (they roll over things easier).

 

[Ron Texas]

The diesel was discontinued and I don't see much chance of it coming back. My take is VW's dieselgate killed of diesel engines in cars, SUV's and light trucks. If you put a pencil to it, the lower fuel consumption of the Jeep diesel is offset by the high cost of diesel fuel ($3.40 vs $2.60), DEF and more frequent service intervals.

The new Cummins Octane is cool, but I doubt it will fit under the hood of a Wrangler. It's designed for heavy trucks just below the weight of 18 wheelers.

 

[Dusty Dude]

The diesel was discontinued and I don't see much chance of it coming back. My take is VW's dieselgate killed of diesel engines in cars, SUV's and light trucks.

The emissions garbage that was added to diesels around 2006 definitely added to its demise a second time. The first time was with the Oldsmobile 8 cylinder diesels in cars. It took 20 years to recover from the Oldsmobile fiasco, and right when diesels were becoming popular again, emissions garbage was added. We also went to low sulfur diesel fuel. Both changes effectively killed the mileage and added fuel cost.

 

[Ratbert]

If you put a pencil to it, the lower fuel consumption of the Jeep diesel is offset by the high cost of diesel fuel ($3.40 vs $2.60), DEF and more frequent service intervals.

Where are you seeing diesel for 80 cents more than regular? Around here diesel is currently about 20 cents more than regular and about 50 cents less than premium.

 

[Ron Texas]

Where are you seeing diesel for 80 cents more than regular? Around here diesel is currently about 20 cents more than regular and about 50 cents less than premium.

Texas. Diesel and premium are about the same price here. During COVID regular was $3.50 and diesel $5.25. Are you in California?

 

[jeepingib]

Funny, I don't remember any non-diesel Humvees. In fact, if you're doing Jeep things, the only option is the diesel engine.

That's not the win that you think it is.... The HMMWV Diesel was one of the worst engines ever. Plus the HMMWV is less capable than a stock JL.

 

[Ratbert]

Weight (increased rolling resistance) has a negligible impact on mileage when not accelerating.

We simply need to stop accelerating. Problem solved!

Additional cargo weight results in a lower frontal area (less air resistance).

Are you thinking the slight vertical compression of the suspension has a noticeable impact on frontal profile? I'd think that would be nearly unmeasurable, especially in contrast to how increased weight impacts the energy required to get up to speed and the extra burden on the engine to maintain that speed.

Larger diameter tires have less rolling resistance (they roll over things easier).

Larger diameter tires are usually heavier. That requires more energy to get them moving and to keep them moving. That's pretty damn evident in the video posted here: https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...rom-33s-to-40s-they-did-the-dyno-runs.145839/

Larger diameter tires typically have a larger contact patch, more sidewall flex, and most likely have a chunkier tread pattern. All of which increases rolling resistance.

I agree with your fundamentals about the impacts of rolling resistance scaling significantly more linearly than the impacts of air resistance, but then you seemed to go in an unexpected direction.

 

[Ratbert]

Texas. Diesel and premium are about the same price here. During COVID regular was $3.50 and diesel $5.25. Are you in California?

Nope. Colorado.

 

[AnnDee4444]

We simply need to stop accelerating. Problem solved!

Are you thinking the slight vertical compression of the suspension has a noticeable impact on frontal profile? I'd think that would be nearly unmeasurable, especially in contrast to how increased weight impacts the energy required to get up to speed and the extra burden on the engine to maintain that speed.

Larger diameter tires are usually heavier. That requires more energy to get them moving and to keep them moving. That's pretty damn evident in the video posted here: https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...rom-33s-to-40s-they-did-the-dyno-runs.145839/

Larger diameter tires typically have a larger contact patch, more sidewall flex, and most likely have a chunkier tread pattern. All of which increases rolling resistance.

I agree with your fundamentals about the impacts of rolling resistance scaling significantly more linearly than the impacts of air resistance, but then you seemed to go in an unexpected direction.

Sorry, I forgot to mention the point of that comment. If you only accelerate once, like getting on a freeway for a road trip, a lot of those factors are pretty much negligible. For acceleration and typical mileage you are absolutely correct, but I was focusing on freeway mileage.

And yes, I bet suspension compression does have some impact... especially on softly sprung vehicles like the JL. Again I was assuming road trip mileage, so accelerating once. Think of the opposite scenario: does raising your vehicle an inch impact gas mileage negatively? I think it does. FWIW: An inch drop would be around 250 pounds on the front axle & 350 on the rear (with stock spring rates).

For tires, weight is negligible if you aren't accelerating. I've seen conflicting information about rolling resistance vs. diameter... not sure I understand everything yet. Wheel offset/width is something that is commonly modified with tires also that would negatively impact mileage.

 

[Ron Texas]

Nope. Colorado.

These fuel price differentials vary by region. Gas in Colorado is considerably higher than in Texas, so I'm nor surprised the differential is like California.

 

[Ratbert]

These fuel price differentials vary by region. Gas in Colorado is considerably higher than in Texas, so I'm nor surprised the differential is like California.

I'm not sure why you think it's considerably higher in CO than TX. Gas seems similar to what you're quoting, but your diesel is 40 to 50 cents more per gallon. Maybe insane taxes on diesel there?

 

[NWJeepr]

You know I was just talking with a good friend of mine about the Cummins B6.7 Octane... Diesel like low end torque, i-6, with all of the benefits of a gasoline engine, running on 87 octane!

Sounds like a bigger version of a Hurricane.

Heck, give me an Ecoboost at this point. 3.5 liters putting out 500 lb-ft torque by about 3k. Gimme gimme gimme!

Or, if Jeep wanted to offer a diesel again, they could see if GM's LZ0 3.0 would fit...

 

[RudeJeepin]

If you put a pencil to it, the lower fuel consumption of the Jeep diesel is offset by the high cost of diesel fuel ($3.40 vs $2.60), DEF and more frequent service intervals.

Around here, souther WA and northern OR I've never seen more than 50 cents difference. It's usually about 20 cents sometimes less occasionally more, but rarely.
Sure we have to add DEF, but it's really not that often. Most service intervals on gas vehicles are more frequent that on diesels. Sure we need more oil per change, but I bet it works out to similar quarts per mile.

Does your gasser have stump pulling power at idle like my diesel does???

 

[Ron Texas]

Around here, souther WA and northern OR I've never seen more than 50 cents difference. It's usually about 20 cents sometimes less occasionally more, but rarely.
Sure we have to add DEF, but it's really not that often. Most service intervals on gas vehicles are more frequent that on diesels. Sure we need more oil per change, but I bet it works out to similar quarts per mile.

Does your gasser have stump pulling power at idle like my diesel does???

My v6 is eTorque which considerably increases torque when starting out. If you are happy with your diesel, don't pay attention to what I say.

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