Yup, it's another Rubicon or 4Runner question

[jeep4runner]

We have a huge emotional attachment to our 4 runner too. You cant not help to have one, and rightly so. Not so much the vehicle but the things you do with them...trouble free. My son says he will drive it until it's dust. Of course I said that too with my 97 TJ and ditched it in favor of my JLUR and I would NEVER go back. lol

The cool thing about a jeep it's like having several different vehicles. Different soft tops, no tops, freedom tops off, half doors, full doors, no doors, windshield up/down, on and on. What way do you want to drive it this weekend? Then add the myriad of off road products and build it for a look or a purpose and hopefully both. No other rig comes close.

Go out to the trails set to do a little light weight wheeling and while having fun see a trail that might be a little tougher then what you were after that day...but where does it go? Looks kinda fun? More then likely your stock ruby can do vs a stock gen 5 toy. Amazing ground clearance, auto swaybar disco's Front a rear lockers, best in biz departure/approach angles. Probably more.

I set out thinking I'm done with anything remotely hard core so a toy was in my sites as was a jeep. But I knew myself, if I came upon a trail that was sketchy I want something that can do it. Versatility.

The cool thing about a toy is that while they arent as capable they are over engineered and you actually feel they care about what they build. That's a pretty powerful reason to get one. It really is hard to knock a toyota. If they had a straight front axle things might have gone different.

All interesting points. I love the fact that Jeeps are essentially like giant LEGOs. I can change what I want, and how I want it, all the time (which is where I think Jeep wins for functionality). And oddly enough, SAS is not uncommon in 4Runners. I know several who have done it with Dana axles. And Marlin Crawling is coming out with an IFS suspension that can mimic (supposedly) similar articulation, clearance, etc., and allow for 37s without a straight axle swap (of course, we'll see). But it still doesn't change how much more versatile the Jeep is to the points you raised with changing it up.

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[jeep4runner]

You can't quantify "worth" in time to anyone else but yourself. I'm the type of person that wants something built exactly the way I want it. To me the time spent is not only worth it, but enjoyable in the design itself (as you mentioned in your comment about "passion for" the endeavor). Custom also means it's unique and individualized....which in and of itself can be quite the draw.

As for the 4Runner....again, there's ways to deal with overhang. I'm stretching mine to a 114 to 117" wheelbase. The rear axle is going back up to 7 inches while the front is going forward 4" and my roof height will still be lower than our Jeep while roughly having 6" more clearance at the frame rail all with a smaller body that's easier to fight down tight trails.

For most trail running, I personally don't need the extra 100 HP. I'm quite happy with the 183 hp available, especially with dual tcases. I have a Lotus if I want to go fast on the road. 80 mph is fast enough (again, for me) with a long travel suspension and 37s on the highway. Not knocking more power....if someone wants it, have at it. There are SCs available too as another option; I just don't see the need and at least some of Toyota's legendary longevity is due to oversizing parts for the HP ratings produced by their engines. The 3.4L is very durable...I see no need to mess with that proven formula myself. The OP isn't talking about a 3rd Gen though either, just to clarify.

Again, you're making a lot of generalizations based on your personal viewpoint...as am I. I'll have no issue driving my 4Runner on the street to the trail and back (done it in the past with other more modified rigs), but I also have the option of trailering if I so choose.

My comments to the OP were merely that he can build something as offroad capable (moreso in some ways), but it makes more sense to just buy the Rubicon.

You bring up some great points—maybe none more important that this line:

"... there's ways to deal with..."

I think this is important to remember as I (or others) move forward with similar debates.

I agree that there's almost always a solution you could do with a 4Runner to solve a problem (especially if you have the money to throw at it). But dealing with something always feel like it comes with more compromise and difficulty than it may be worth—which also removes the more "pure joy" aspect of something. Yes, both can be built damn near anyway I want. But it's my ignorance as to what all those ways are until I do them (hence why I'm trying to learn here). So I very much appreciate yours—and everyone else's—insights. Thank you.

 

[Spartan99]

Toyota all the way. Ever own a Fiat? Pure junk.

 

[jeep4runner]

Toyota all the way. Ever own a Fiat? Pure junk.

Actually, yes, I have. And while I would agree that Fiat (and Chrysler/Jeep) reliability doesn't hold a candle to a Toyota, my mrs' Fiat 500 Pop was a lot more fun to drive than my Toy.

 

[twisty]

Well, not a complete flame war, anyway.

Funny enough, I have found a few used 2018 Rubi's (2-door) with low miles for $34-$37k (one on this site). And I'm not comparing a used 4Runner to a new Rubi—I'm trying to figure out which one would be the best fit for my needs. I appreciate that each has their pros and cons. For example: one of the problems with a new Rubi (or new JLU) is that there are bound to be new gen issues. I wouldn't buy a 6th gen Runner in the first year of release for the same reason (whenever the hell they decide to get off their butts to do it). So reliability with the 4Runner is bound to be better. But, a JLU, regardless of model, is bound to smoke a 4Runner off-road with little to no modifications. So it's looking at short-term and long-term costs.

Having said that, I am definitely open to a lower model JLU to then build it up. I'm still figuring out all the options Jeep offers in those models (from a creature comfort standpoint). And I'm confident the aftermarket place will have a lot of options, as well.

For me, a lot of it boils down: Reliability, Functionality, Comfortability (on and off-road), and pure Joy. If I follow that framework, it almost seems like (and I could be wrong) it would go: 4R, JLU, 4R, JLU. So now I need to figure out if any of those matter more than the others. And right now, pure Joy may be that factor.

I would buy a edit: new model year toyota long before a new model year jeep that I DID buy. lol. I already had to bring it in once for lame ESS. Cant wait to buy a batteries for it. lol The 19's with BSG sound and look like a horror show to me, and you can probably consider them a model change too.. With something so complicated I'd much rather have jap engineering to engineering by Fiat. lol I'm talking myself back into toyota here. haha.

My 97 TJ was a first model year and it was trouble free for the 21 years I had it. Our 97 4 runner had more stuff done mechanically by far then the Jeep. Timing belts alone were close to 1k and we did it twice. Axle seals went too, AC as well. Jeep had AC evap cooler go and a blower motor go and that was it. Of course it didnt have near the mileage to toy had.

 

[twisty]

This is precisely the reason I own a Wrangler. I'm not an off-roader but in the summer I never know what version of the same vehicle I'm going to be driving. They look different and feel different depending on that days setup. Nothing else does that.

Yup. No doubt about it. Get bored with one look, go with another. And good thing, there is a million zillion jeeps out there, yet it's still super easy to make one just for you...over and over again.

 

[jeep4runner]

I would buy a first gen toyota long before a first gen jeep that I DID buy. lol. I already had to bring it in once for lame ESS. Cant wait to buy a batteries for it. lol The 19's with BSG sound and look like a horror show to me, and you can probably consider them a model change too.. With something so complicated I'd much rather have jap engineering to engineering by Fiat. lol I'm talking myself back into toyota here. haha.

My 97 TJ was a first model year and it was trouble free for the 21 years I had it. Our 97 4 runner had more stuff done mechanically by far then the Jeep. Timing belts alone were close to 1k and we did it twice. Axle seals went too, AC as well. Jeep had AC evap cooler go and a blower motor go and that was it. Of course it didnt have near the mileage to toy had.

If it makes you feel better, my first truck was an '84 Toyota Truck. And it was a lemon.

 

[twisty]

If it makes you feel better, my first truck was an '84 Toyota Truck. And it was a lemon.

lol, no it doesnt. There are lemons or things just going wrong on every brand. I just think toyota has less of it. Good luck with whatever decision you make...and I'm hoping I still feel the same way in a few years with the decision I made. outa here!!!

 

[guarnibl]

Buy a Rubi 4 door with some options (auto, hard top, 8.4" screen for the audio/resale, LEDs, steel bumpers -- add winch plate) w/ leather for 8% under invoice, and be done with it. If you can't afford it now, save the difference until you can. You're at like $43-$44k before tax/title/registration/dealer fees (I'd gather probably $48-$49k OTD). If you dump money into a 4 runner, you're never getting that back -- especially this late in it's model cycle. You'd at least do semi decently value retention wise if you keep the spec to minimal on the Rubi to things most people will want to buy without going too crazy. Bone stock it will be more capable than the 4 runner.

 

[jeep4runner]

Buy a Rubi 4 door with some options (auto, hard top, 8.4" screen for the audio/resale, LEDs, steel bumpers -- add winch plate) w/ leather for 8% under invoice, and be done with it. If you can't afford it now, save the difference until you can. You're at like $43-$44k before tax/title/registration/dealer fees (I'd gather probably $48-$49k OTD). If you dump money into a 4 runner, you're never getting that back -- especially this late in it's model cycle. You'd at least do semi decently value retention wise if you keep the spec to minimal on the Rubi to things most people will want to buy without going too crazy. Bone stock it will be more capable than the 4 runner.

I like your line of thinking. But I would argue about never getting the money back if I went with a 4Runner. Like Jeeps, they hold their resale value incredibly well. And since we don't know for sure what a 6th gen would even offer, there's always the chance that they have issues, or people don't like aspects enough on them—causing a run on 5th gens. But this assumes I'd be looking to sell whatever I buy (which I wouldn't).

 

[ThirtyOne]

Hi There!

I have a 2018 JLUR and a 2017 4Runner TRD. I would honestly say hands down the Jeep is far and away better vehicle. The creature comforts with the new JL take it to another level. The 4Runner tech is probably 10 years behind, yeah sure it has navigation and blue tooth but it's old tech. The 5spd trans is not comparable to the 8spd on the JL, which on longer trips will help on the gas mileage. The storage area when you fold the seats down is about the same, you get a little more with the 4Runner but not much. The 4Runner does feel more car like on pavement, but off road the Jeep is much better. As for towing you should be fine with a teardrop or a smaller trailer for either. Reliability, yeah sure the Toyotas are good but this is my 2 Wrangler and I have never had a single problem (knocking on wood), with my JL the first 2 years of oil changes are free and you get a pretty good warranty with it, I'm not sure you will get the same with a used Toyota. My 4Runner has Crawl Control and Rear locker, with 3.42 gears, JLUR has front and rear lockers and 4.10 gears. Then you have the after market to specialize your rig, I think the Jeep wins here again, there is so many companies out there the competition keeps the prices some what lower, I mean if you really look you can find deals. I am sure that I missed something but for your initial questions I think I covered them all.

Joe

When the new 4Runner comes out I think it will close the gap considerably. Many of the shortcomings of the 4Runner will be addressed - tech, comfort, transmission, and powertrain will all be updated.

 

[jeep4runner]

When the new 4Runner comes out I think it will close the gap considerably. Many of the shortcomings of the 4Runner will be addressed - tech, comfort, transmission, and powertrain will all be updated.

If you look at the specs and features of this year's Tacoma and LC, then yeah, most likely. Things like CarPlay and Android Auto with bigger screens, 360/bird's eye cameras, better center stack and instrument clusters, etc. Problem is, it'll also cost over $45k. I could get an SR5 used for $22-24, and get all of those things, plus build it up to be an off-road beast for much less than a new one would cost. And even by then, there could be a few more used JLUs out there for nearly the same price as a built up used 4Runner.

 

[guarnibl]

I like your line of thinking. But I would argue about never getting the money back if I went with a 4Runner. Like Jeeps, they hold their resale value incredibly well. And since we don't know for sure what a 6th gen would even offer, there's always the chance that they have issues, or people don't like aspects enough on them—causing a run on 5th gens. But this assumes I'd be looking to sell whatever I buy (which I wouldn't).

Mods don't hold value. Nor do they on Jeeps. Point being you'd do less to the Wrangler than the 4Runner, so you'd be making up some of the difference there. Your 4runner will still be worth the $27k even though you're $42k into it, before any future depreciation. Perhaps you'd get 10% of what you spent on mods back if you keep them on the vehicle, to get more you'd have to de-install and part out and probably still settle for 30% of what you paid.

Example -- if you do a truck conversion on a 4 door wrangler, it books for less than what it booked for before you spent the $15k converting it. So you actually just spent money to depreciate the value of your vehicle.

Either way, cheers! I hope you enjoy either one that you decide to buy.

 

[pablo_max3045]

If it makes you feel better, my first truck was an '84 Toyota Truck. And it was a lemon.

You remember that add years and years ago where the Toyota pickup was flooded underwater and the guy just pulled it out, drained the oil, popped in a new battery and she fired right up?
That was a family friend of ours who went by the name of Jobee. No idea what his actual name was actually. Anyhow, he got a tidy little check and new pickup from Toyota to use his story and likeness in their adverts.
It really happened like that when he pulled it out of the river too.
There are of course a lot more lemons on the US produced stuff than the Japanese built stuff, but they are still pretty good.
This isn't because the US workers are bad, but it is down to mentality. In the US, the workers are always at war with the management. Management trying to pay them less, offering worse working conditions and trying to cut costs to boost short term goals. Meanwhile the workers are trying to get paid a living wage and resentful of the management. Combine angry workers and cost cutting on parts and you get a shit product.
Of course, it is not so bad at Toyota since their management is largely Japanese and they usually focus on the long term rather than quarterly profits.
If Toyota sold the 76 series land cruiser here, there is no way I would have bought anything other than that. It is as solid as a vehicle can be made.
But, they don't so I got a Jeep.
I think basically all other Toyotas look horrid. All that stupid cladding bolted on it. Even the Hilux looks stupid now.

 

[jeep4runner]

You remember that add years and years ago where the Toyota pickup was flooded underwater and the guy just pulled it out, drained the oil, popped in a new battery and she fired right up?
That was a family friend of ours who went by the name of Jobee. No idea what his actual name was actually. Anyhow, he got a tidy little check and new pickup from Toyota to use his story and likeness in their adverts.
It really happened like that when he pulled it out of the river too.
There are of course a lot more lemons on the US produced stuff than the Japanese built stuff, but they are still pretty good.
This isn't because the US workers are bad, but it is down to mentality. In the US, the workers are always at war with the management. Management trying to pay them less, offering worse working conditions and trying to cut costs to boost short term goals. Meanwhile the workers are trying to get paid a living wage and resentful of the management. Combine angry workers and cost cutting on parts and you get a shit product.
Of course, it is not so bad at Toyota since their management is largely Japanese and they usually focus on the long term rather than quarterly profits.
If Toyota sold the 76 series land cruiser here, there is no way I would have bought anything other than that. It is as solid as a vehicle can be made.
But, they don't so I got a Jeep.
I think basically all other Toyotas look horrid. All that stupid cladding bolted on it. Even the Hilux looks stupid now.

OK, so new thread: a Jeep or find a way to ship an Australian LC over here. Annnnnnnd go

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