synergy vs steersmarts

[SS_AP]

They designed a test that they knew their bar would win. Not really sure what that proves as it does not reflect real life usage. This video is also from 2016 and is testing JK products. Our JK drag link has been redesigned since this video was released and it is not indicative of current products.

This test is actually designed by/for the OEM's to simulate the life of a linkage. The test is from the JK products. On the JL testing, the stock JL linkage failed at half the actuations of the JK, and the SS JL linkages ripped the mounting boss off of the aluminum knuckle at about 350k cycles, which was when testing was suspended.

I think what's most telling in this video is amount of flex each manufacturer has. Most of them appear to be about the same but SS base model seems to have the most flex of them all.

I'd like to see the results of stock JL components in this test.

No one else had linkages done when we tested originally, but as you can see from above, the JL linkage did poorly, and our linkage tore the aluminum knuckle boss off around 350k cycles.

I would be looking for an aluminum setup. I see the CavFab and it looks the part. I expect LetzRoll Offroad to have one out by now too. If you rock crawl, the benefits of aluminum are huge... Simply no bent bars.

We have a 7075 1-3/4" Aluminum Adjuster tube coming out for the Tie Rod. It will utilize clamps that were designed specifically for the aluminum setup rather than relying on jam nuts. This will be available in the next month.

I want to be able to use the stock steering stabilizer mounting location.That pretty much limits choices as have been reading the steer smarts for some reason will not allow you to use OEM mounting. That seems like a poor design to me.

The JL mounting location is not a great setup. It puts the damper in a low and precarious position that leaves it vulnerable to impact and damage. The relocation bracket for the SS tie rod moves it into a better position and gets it out of the way of danger. This design is much more like what the JK setup is like. You'll notice that any of the aftermarket options for tie rod will require you to relocate the stabilizer, not just the SS setup

.5° positive toe is what Travis recommends when installing the steersmart tie rod! I agree it’s agaisnt the norm but that’s what we’ve been following .4-.5° and so far nothing but great feedback. Tire wear is great and drives perfect

Brett

This is correct. Between 1/8" toe-out (.32 degrees) and 3/16" (.48 degrees) is the perfect amount of toe-out for your jeep. Yes, it goes against what others say, but others also haven't done the testing that we've done in regards to this.

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[Vondy]

This is correct. Between 1/8" toe-out (.32 degrees) and 3/16" (.48 degrees) is the perfect amount of toe-out for your jeep. Yes, it goes against what others say, but others also haven't done the testing that we've done in regards to this.

Can you furthur explain why the toe out? Why does it work better in this situation?

 

[ChattVol]

This test is actually designed by/for the OEM's to simulate the life of a linkage. The test is from the JK products. On the JL testing, the stock JL linkage failed at half the actuations of the JK, and the SS JL linkages ripped the mounting boss off of the aluminum knuckle at about 350k cycles, which was when testing was suspended.



No one else had linkages done when we tested originally, but as you can see from above, the JL linkage did poorly, and our linkage tore the aluminum knuckle boss off around 350k cycles.



We have a 7075 1-3/4" Aluminum Adjuster tube coming out for the Tie Rod. It will utilize clamps that were designed specifically for the aluminum setup rather than relying on jam nuts. This will be available in the next month.



The JL mounting location is not a great setup. It puts the damper in a low and precarious position that leaves it vulnerable to impact and damage. The relocation bracket for the SS tie rod moves it into a better position and gets it out of the way of danger. This design is much more like what the JK setup is like. You'll notice that any of the aftermarket options for tie rod will require you to relocate the stabilizer, not just the SS setup



This is correct. Between 1/8" toe-out (.32 degrees) and 3/16" (.48 degrees) is the perfect amount of toe-out for your jeep. Yes, it goes against what others say, but others also haven't done the testing that we've done in regards to this.

Thanks for the info...Do you feel this toe out setting on the jl is also ideal with the stock tie rod and draglink?

 

[SS_AP]

Can you furthur explain why the toe out? Why does it work better in this situation?

The basic explanation is that it helps to load up the joints and puts a slight amount of tension on the system. People are generally concerned it will cause the tires to wear more/oddly, but a slightly toed-out will wear no worse than slightly toed-in. Additionally, we find that toe-in can cause the steering to feel a bit flighty, as this setup creates a different scrub/grab scenario when the road has a crown/depressions. The road conditions will change as you travel down the road, and these variations dictate which tire is grabbing at that moment, creating the shifty/flighty feeling. We realize that this isn't what everyone else recommends (oem spec is toe in), but this is our recommendation based on our studies.

Thanks for the info...Do you feel this toe out setting on the jl is also ideal with the stock tie rod and draglink?

I believe you'll see some improvement with the stock tie rod as well, though all of the stock linkages are pretty underwhelming and allow for a lot of deflection and frequency transfer.

 

[Solidaxle]

Nope sorry, not buying any Fake news about setting the toe out. There’s a reason that every expert in their field recommends toe in including Jeep. Setting up my jeep with a toe out goes against my over 40 years experience. Nope
PS my jeep drives great and I just set my alignment with a little bit more toe in per Jeep’s recommendations.
Do you think Jeep or SS put more testing in ?
Only one company in the world recommends a toe out set up and every other manufacturing company in the world is wrong.?
Every alignment specification sheet wrong ?
every calibrated alignment rack wrong ?
all vehicle manufacturing standards wrong ?
and we’re supposed to believe this ?
Wrong

 

[SS_AP]

Nope sorry, not buying any Fake news about setting the toe out. There’s a reason that every expert in their field recommends toe in including Jeep. Setting up my jeep with a toe out goes against my over 40 years experience. Nope
PS my jeep drives great and I just set my alignment with a little bit more toe in per Jeep’s recommendations.
Do you think Jeep or SS put more testing in ?
Only one company in the world recommends a toe out set up and every other manufacturing company in the world is wrong.?
Every alignment specification sheet wrong ?
every calibrated alignment rack wrong ?
all vehicle manufacturing standards wrong ?
and we’re supposed to believe this ?
Wrong

Fake news? hahaha - ok

You're entitled to your opinion, but that doesn't mean you're right. I doubt you know the history of Steer Smarts, our engineering prowess/capability, or the history of our parent company and their nearly 90 years of OEM linkage production for the big 3. They were delivering pitman arms to Henry Ford via horse and buggy in the very beginning.

Your thinking is a prime example of peoples inability to look outside of what they think to be truth/fact. It's easier to reply negatively than to be open to a differing opinion and digest the information objectively.

My response is for those who are open to the possibility that there is a different way to set up your vehicle than what has been regurgitated without question for 40 years. For anyone like yourself who can't fathom the idea, you can continue with your regularly scheduled program.

 

[Vondy]

The basic explanation is that it helps to load up the joints and puts a slight amount of tension on the system. People are generally concerned it will cause the tires to wear more/oddly, but a slightly toed-out will wear no worse than slightly toed-in. Additionally, we find that toe-in can cause the steering to feel a bit flighty, as this setup creates a different scrub/grab scenario when the road has a crown/depressions. The road conditions will change as you travel down the road, and these variations dictate which tire is grabbing at that moment, creating the shifty/flighty feeling. We realize that this isn't what everyone else recommends (oem spec is toe in), but this is our recommendation based on our studies.



I believe you'll see some improvement with the stock tie rod as well, though all of the stock linkages are pretty underwhelming and allow for a lot of deflection and frequency transfer.

Thanks for the additional reasoning. For those of us struggling with the steering, anything is worth a try, especially something that doesn't cost anything. It does seem counter intuitive. Although Jeep sure didn't seem to know what they were doing when they setup the steering on the JL's or at least on the ones some of us were unlucky enough to get!

 

[SS_AP]

Thanks for the additional reasoning. For those of us struggling with the steering, anything is worth a try, especially something that doesn't cost anything. It does seem counter intuitive. Although Jeep sure didn't seem to know what they were doing when they setup the steering on the JL's or at least on the ones some of us were unlucky enough to get!

You're welcome - I'm merely here to try and help when and where I can.

 

[American Adventurist]

I chose Steer Smarts, and my parts are beginning to arrive. Looking forward to getting them installed!

 

[rustyshakelford]

The basic explanation is that it helps to load up the joints and puts a slight amount of tension on the system. People are generally concerned it will cause the tires to wear more/oddly, but a slightly toed-out will wear no worse than slightly toed-in. Additionally, we find that toe-in can cause the steering to feel a bit flighty, as this setup creates a different scrub/grab scenario when the road has a crown/depressions. The road conditions will change as you travel down the road, and these variations dictate which tire is grabbing at that moment, creating the shifty/flighty feeling. We realize that this isn't what everyone else recommends (oem spec is toe in), but this is our recommendation based on our studies.



I believe you'll see some improvement with the stock tie rod as well, though all of the stock linkages are pretty underwhelming and allow for a lot of deflection and frequency transfer.

Thanks for the explanation. That makes perfect sense and is in line with what I was thinking when studying up on this. Been working out great

Brett

 

[rustyshakelford]

SS dude,
I already have a great aftermarket track bar, does your drag link and tie rod have to be paired with your track bar to work right or am I ok without it?
Thanks
Roky

You can mix and match. Ideally everything would be the same but they aren’t mutually exclusive

Brett

 

[Rock Krawler Suspension]

SS dude,
I already have a great aftermarket track bar, does your drag link and tie rod have to be paired with your track bar to work right or am I ok without it?
Thanks
Roky

We use Steer Smarts tie rods and drag links on our JL's with our Track Bars, no issues.

 

[Roky]

We use Steer Smarts tie rods and drag links on our JL's with our Track Bars, no issues.

That’s what my set up would be. Thanks

 

[spies]

We have a 7075 1-3/4" Aluminum Adjuster tube coming out for the Tie Rod. It will utilize clamps that were designed specifically for the aluminum setup rather than relying on jam nuts. This will be available in the next month.

Awesome news. Do you plan on offering a jam nut version for us masochists? Not sure how I feel about clamps on aluminum linkage. But if you could put it in that torture jig and test it against this then that would convince me, since the barnes tie rod worked out very well for me on my JK.

 

[RubiRob]

Awesome news. Do you plan on offering a jam nut version for us masochists? Not sure how I feel about clamps on aluminum linkage. But if you could put it in that torture jig and test it against this then that would convince me, since the barnes tie rod worked out very well for me on my JK.

Many people like the clamps as they're most secure, however CavFab sells a tie rod drag link HD kit with steersmarts ends that looks pretty beefy.

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