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Power cutoff for Winch

Zandcwhite

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I'm not an expert, but my battery has 950 cranking amps and is rated at 70 amp-hours.

ChatGPT tells me a bolted ground fault on that battery could be >2000A, but the battery would fail or explode in 1-2 seconds. 950A (the rated cranking amps) is a little more than 300% of a 300A fuse rating, which I think means an ANL fuse would trip in about 1 second?
With a bigger than stock battery I think that would work, but I'm still waiting for someone to test it out...
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TheRaven

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You're flat wing and the graphs prove it. That's not made up information it's real world testing period. And startup current looks a lot like fault current in fact. You can't have a current spike of higher than the available current period. No fuse trips at less than 200% which is what we are talking about here. That's not how it works. The only reason the inrush doesn't look exactly like a fault is the fault has a much higher current draw. If you limit that maximum current because your source is a tiny battery then inrush and a fault won't look any different period. The available fault current is extremely limited in a vehicle.
Ok explain this reality that flies directly in the face of your claim - my Silverado has a 400A fuse on the starter. You claim that there's no way the stock battery can supply enough current to blow that fuse. So why are there posts all over the net from owners with blown 400A fuses?
 

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Zandcwhite

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Ok explain this reality that flies directly in the face of your claim - my Silverado has a 400A fuse on the starter. You claim that there's no way a battery can supply enough current to trip that fuse. So why is that fuse there?
That's about as sound as your logic that because Warn makes and sells the power interrupter kit they recommend it for all types of winch installs. It exists so it must work? How big is the battery in the Silverado? Have you ever seen one trip? Why aren't the vast majority of starters fused? Why do they run a 400A fuse to a 1.5kW motor? That's only 125A at 12v. By that same logic Id want a 1,200A fuse on my 6hp, 4.5kW winch motor. As your Silverado is showing you, if you want an electric motor to start reliable you over size the fusing, not undersize. What size is that starter wire? So much for fusing to protect the wire?
 

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TheRaven

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That's about as sound as your logic that because Warn makes and sells the power interrupter kit they recommend it for all types of winch installs.
Never said that.

It exists so it must work? How big is the battery in the Silverado? Have you ever seen one trip? Why aren't the vast majority of starters fused? Why do they run a 400A fuse to a 1.5kW motor? That's only 125A at 12v. By that same logic Id want a 1,200A fuse on my 6hp, 4.5kW winch motor. As your Silverado is showing you, if you want an electric motor to start reliable you over size the fusing, not undersize. What size is that starter wire? So much for fusing to protect the wire?
The point here is that GM's engineers fused the starter in the Silverado at 400A. The stock battery is 750CCA. According to your claim, that fuse will never blow. Yet it has and continues to. You do not seem to understand how fuses work...and you seem dead set on not learning.
 

TheRaven

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Stupid question: what is the 300A fuse for? Seen on the right side, would be at the rear of the fuse box.

s-l1200.jpg






Edit: nevermind.

zcase_fusearray-jpg.jpg
Kinda looks like it's for the starter...
 

Zandcwhite

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Never said that.



The point here is that GM's engineers fused the starter in the Silverado at 400A. The stock battery is 750CCA. According to your claim, that fuse will never blow. Yet it has and continues to. You do not seem to understand how fuses work...and you seem dead set on not learning.
There's a chart that anyone who can read can understand. No fuses don't require power to ramp on slowly to not trip. That isn't how fuses work. Not only do you get the full load current when you turn on an electric motor you get the massive startup spike. If fuses worked like you think they do you would blow a fuse every time you turned on a motor period. Not only do they not trip faster if the spike is instantaneous they are rated to cushion that and then still trip if the high load persists. Look at the curve for Christ's sake. The 750 CCA is nearly 190% of the CCA so yes if the starter remained engaged for long enough it could trip but no it wouldn't be instantaneous. Not enough available current.
 
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GATORB8

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Here's Littel's Mega chart for the high amperage options, they've got a table that's kind of nice to the side. The Silverado's appear to use 400 amp Mega's (although the diagram on my L8T 6.6L says 500 amps)
Jeep Wrangler JL Power cutoff for Winch 1747077088556-il


EDIT: Oddly, it looks like the fuse pops at 75% rating after 4 hours, but not at 100% rating.
 

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There's a chart that anyone who can read can understand. No fuses don't require power to ramp on slowly to not trip. That isn't how fuses work. Not only do you get the full load current when you turn on an electric motor you get the massive startup spike. If fuses worked like you think they do you would blow a fuse every time you turned on a motor period. Not only do they not trip faster if the spike is instantaneous they are rated to cushion that and then still trip if the high load persists. Look at the curve for Christ's sake. The 750 CCA is nearly 190% of the CCA so yes if the starter remained engaged for long enough it could trip but no it wouldn't be instantaneous. Not enough available current.
What a mess. You don't get it and you don't want to get it.

EDIT: Oddly, it looks like the fuse pops at 75% rating after 4 hours, but not at 100% rating.
It does, they just don't have those exact numbers. We can safely assume it's somewhere between 1 second and 4 hours. LOL.
 

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Where does warn recommend this?

To all who won't go without a fuse on your winch, when will you be installing a fuse on your starter motor wire? If not, why not?
Scott, I might be late with this reply, as I haven’t read the plethora of comments after yours yet.

The starter is fused to protect against over-current. I believe it’s F02, sir.
 

AnnDee4444

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Scott, I might be late with this reply, as I haven’t read the plethora of comments after yours yet.

The starter is fused to protect against over-current. I believe it’s F02, sir.
F02 "Starter" is 40A. Probably not the starter power, but would probably prevent the engine from starting.

Found a few things online. Yours could be different:

Jeep Wrangler JL Power cutoff for Winch 2019-jeep-wrangler-jl-tail-light-fuse-specifically-looking-v0-4jppdmzxg7zb1


LocationDescriptionSizeType
F01Spare
F02Starter40 Amp GreenCartridge
F03IBS5 Amp TanMicro
F04Fuel Pump MTR/FPCM20 Amp YellowMicro
F05Security Gateway5 Amp TanMicro
F06Spare
F07LTR Cool Pump — If Equipped15 Amp BlueMicro
F08TCM-8HP CYGNUS15 Amp BlueMicro
F09Spare
F10KIN/RF HUB/ESCL15 Amp BlueMicro
F11UCI Port (USB & AUX)10 Amp RedMicro
F12HIFI Ampliftier25 Amp ClearMicro
F13Spare
F14Spare
F15IPC/SWITCH BANK-HD ELEC15 Amp BlueMicro
F16Spare
F17Spare
F18AC CLUTCH10 Amp RedMicro
F19Spare
F20CBC 1-INTERIOR LIGHTS30 Amp PinkCartridge
F21REAR WIPER20 Amp YellowMicro
F22ECM/PCM/MGU WAKE UP/PPU WAKE UP10 Amp RedMicro
F23PCM/ECM10 Amp RedMicro
F24Spare
F25MOD_SBW10 Amp RedMicro
F26CBC 2-EXTERIOR LIGHTS #140 Amp GreenCartridge
F27Front Wipers30 Amp PinkCartridge
F28CBC 3-POWER LOCKS40 Amp GreenCartridge
F29CBC 4-EXTERIOR LIGHTS #240 Amp GreenCartridge
F30Spare
F31DIAGNOSTIC PORT10 Amp RedMicro
F32HVAC CTRL MOD/SCL/OCM/DPDM10 Amp RedMicro
F33PTS/IRCM/AIRBAG DISABLE LMPS10 Amp RedMicro
F34ESC/EHPS/SBCM WAKE UP10 Amp RedMicro
F35BRAKE VAC PMP — If Equipped30 Amp PinkCartridge
F36TRLR TOW MOD — If Equipped30 Amp PinkCartridge
F37TRLR TOW CONN 7W — If Equipped30 Amp PinkCartridge
F38ECM20 Amp BlueCartridge
F39Spare
F40DTCM/AXLE LOCK FT_RR15 Amp BlueMicro
F41IC/SGW WAKE UP15 Amp BlueMicro
F42PCR CTRL FEED (ESS)/SPARE (BSG) — If Equipped10 Amp RedMicro
F43PWR OUTLET (CARGO) BATT20 Amp YellowMicro
F44IRCAM HEATERS10 Amp RedMicro
F45PWR OUTLET (CARGO) IGN*20 Amp YellowMicro
F46AUTO HDLP LVL MOD/LVL MTR/HDLP SW10 Amp RedMicro
F47Spare
F48Spare
F49ORC10 Amp RedMicro
F50HD ACC — If Equipped10 Amp RedMicro
F51DSRC/USB/ISRVM/CSGM10 Amp RedMicro
F52CIGAR LTR20 Amp YellowMicro
F53Spare
F54Spare
F55Spare
F56IN-CAR TEMP SENSOR10 Amp RedMicro
F57Frt Drvr Htd Seat20 Amp YellowMicro
F58Frt Pass Htd Seat20 Amp YellowMicro
F59Spare
F60CSWM (HTD STR WHEEL)15 Amp BlueMicro
F61LBSS/RBSS10 Amp RedMicro
F62Spare
F63ORC10 Amp RedMicro
F64Spare
F65Spare
F66HVAC BLOWER MTR FRT40 Amp GreenCartridge
F67Spare
F68Spare
F69MGU (BSG) — If Equipped5 Amp TanMicro
F70INJ/IGN COIL (GAS)/GLO PLUG MOD (DSL)25 Amp ClearMicro
F71Spare
F72HD ELEC ACC PKG — If Equipped10 Amp RedMicro
F73PWR TOP LT20 Amp BlueCartridge
F74PWR TOP RT20 Amp BlueCartridge
F75PPU-BPCM & APM (BSG) — If Equipped10 Amp RedMicro
F76ECM (GAS)/PCM (DSL)20 Amp YellowMicro
F77HTD MIRRORS10 Amp RedMicro
F78COMP/INTRUSION/SIREN/INTRUSION SNSRS10 Amp RedMicro
F79SMART BAR CTRL MOD20 Amp YellowMicro
F80PCM15 Amp BlueMicro
F81REAR DEFROSTER (EBL)30 Amp PinkCartridge
F82FUEL HTR — If Equipped30 Amp PinkCartridge
F83GLOW PLUG — If Equipped60 Amp YellowCartridge
F84UREA HTR CTRL UNIT — If Equipped30 Amp PinkCartridge
F85PM SENSOR — If Equipped10 Amp RedMicro
F86BRAKE VAC PMP 2 — If Equipped30 Amp PinkCartridge
F87SUPPLY/PURGING PMP — If Equipped10 Amp RedMicro
F88NOx SENSOR #1/ #2 — IF Equipped20 Amp BlueCartridge
F89SCCM/CRUISE CTL/DTV10 Amp RedMicro
F90TRLR TOW PARK LMP — If Equipped20 Amp BlueCartridge
F91HORN20 Amp YellowMicro
F92HD ACCY #2 — If Equipped40 Amp GreenCartridge
F93HD ACCY #1 — If Equipped40 Amp GreenCartridge
F94TPM/CORAX10 Amp RedMicro
F95Spare
F96PWR MIRROR SW10 Amp RedMicro
F97RADIO/TBM20 Amp YellowMicro
F98SW BANK-HD ELEC/OFF ROAD10 Amp RedMicro
F99Spare
F100ESC-ECU & VALVES30 Amp PinkCartridge
F101DTCM30 Amp PinkCartridge
F102DUAL USB PORT15 Amp BlueMicro
F103HD ACCY #3 — If Equipped15 Amp BlueMicro
F104PPU COOL PUMP — If Equipped15 Amp BlueMicro
F105ICS/HVAC10 Amp RedMicro
F106ESC-PUMP MTR40 Amp GreenCartridge
F107TRLR TOW STOP/TURN LT — If Equipped20 Amp YellowMicro
F108HD ACCY #4 — If Equipped15 Amp BlueMicro
F109TRLR TOW STOP/TURN RT — If Equipped20 Amp YellowMicro
F110POWER INVERTER30 Amp PinkCartridge
F111TRLR TOW BACKUP — If Equipped20 Amp BlueCartridge
 

Zandcwhite

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What a mess. You don't get it and you don't want to get it.
Bury your head in the sand all you want. The only way a fuse trips faster/ near instantaneously is via a massive current spike period. Unless you hit it with 400% or more of its rating its going to take time to trip. That's what these charts tell you. The closer your over current is to the rated current, the longer it takes. Being that your source in the JLs case isn't capable of 1600A, it won't trip a 400A breaker quickly period. Of course there are picture of the 300A fuse in the JL that says alternator/ belt start generator (which is the alternator on etorque models) and you immediately say it looks like it goes to the starter. You live in your own alternate universe with made up facts unsupported by the evidence clearly presented to you. I decided to go out and look at the Jeep. 300A zcase fuse goes to the alternator, and the starter wire runs unfused straight to the battery... just like my winch line.
 

Zandcwhite

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Scott, I might be late with this reply, as I haven’t read the plethora of comments after yours yet.

The starter is fused to protect against over-current. I believe it’s F02, sir.
That's the starter relay that's fused, if you look at your Jeep, you'll see the power wire from the starter runs straight to the battery.
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