Sponsored

Payload vs Upgrades -- a cautionary tale

Jtaugner

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2022
Threads
7
Messages
267
Reaction score
368
Location
Upstate SC
Vehicle(s)
23 JLURD / 03 Cobra
Build Thread
Link
I don’t know if I buy that. My Jeep is only mildly modified, but I tow my 3400 boat 100’s of miles at a time through the Mojave desert all summer long with no overheating.
Your Jeep is also a gasser. I specifically reference diesel issues, which are the ones who typically have overheating issues.
Sponsored

 

four low

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2017
Threads
13
Messages
3,112
Reaction score
3,670
Location
central New York
Vehicle(s)
2018 JL
I can see why you want to save weight using a " Mini Spare", but why not eliminate it, since the diameter difference will pose problems in actually using it as a spare ,especially if 4x4 is needed to get out.
A skinny same diameter tire would keep that rolling cirumference, and save weight.
 

Byrds8

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2022
Threads
37
Messages
1,353
Reaction score
1,929
Location
Florida
Vehicle(s)
2022 JLU Beach, 2022 JLU High Tide
What can be done to increase payload?
 

Zandcwhite

Well-Known Member
First Name
Zach
Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Threads
10
Messages
4,249
Reaction score
7,578
Location
Patterson, ca
Vehicle(s)
2019 jlur
I can see why you want to save weight using a " Mini Spare", but why not eliminate it, since the diameter difference will pose problems in actually using it as a spare ,especially if 4x4 is needed to get out.
A skinny same diameter tire would keep that rolling cirumference, and save weight.
Unless you use the lockers, running a different diameter spare won't cause any problems even in 4wd. The XJ's even came with a donut spare on some trims.
 

Zandcwhite

Well-Known Member
First Name
Zach
Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Threads
10
Messages
4,249
Reaction score
7,578
Location
Patterson, ca
Vehicle(s)
2019 jlur
What can be done to increase payload?
As far as gvwr, nothing. Heavier springs will allow you to carry more weight, and as a non-commercial vehicle you'll never be put on a scale so take that how you want. The tuf springs in my ram advertise a 50% increase in payload capacity, but you likely won't find JL springs marketed that way. Obviously hauling more weight decreases everything from braking performance to handling to acceleration so do what you're comfortable with.
 

Sponsored

Byrds8

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2022
Threads
37
Messages
1,353
Reaction score
1,929
Location
Florida
Vehicle(s)
2022 JLU Beach, 2022 JLU High Tide
As far as gvwr, nothing. Heavier springs will allow you to carry more weight, and as a non-commercial vehicle you'll never be put on a scale so take that how you want. The tuf springs in my ram advertise a 50% increase in payload capacity, but you likely won't find JL springs marketed that way. Obviously hauling more weight decreases everything from braking performance to handling to acceleration so do what you're comfortable with.
It was more a curiosity. Even if I had my wife and two boys in the Jeep at the same time Id have over 200lbs left. Granted, 850lbs to me sounds ridiculously low. I weight 230 myself and both the boys are still teens. One of them being a good bit taller than I am. I can bet as an adult, especially if he bulks up more, he will weigh as much as I do. Just seems crazy that if all of us were adults you almost cant put anything else in the Jeep.
 

ABRubi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2022
Threads
0
Messages
111
Reaction score
238
Location
America
Vehicle(s)
22 JLUR
The weight of your tires doesn’t affect payload capability, so you actually aren’t as close as it would appear.

GVWR is 6100. Doesn't matter where the weight is coming from.
 

jaymz

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jay
Joined
Aug 11, 2021
Threads
17
Messages
1,259
Reaction score
2,322
Location
Inland Empire
Vehicle(s)
2018 Rubicon Unlimited
GVWR is 6100. Doesn't matter where the weight is coming from.
True, but the op was discussing payload/cargo capacity, not GVWR.
 

Nitehawk92

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mark
Joined
Mar 11, 2022
Threads
20
Messages
1,225
Reaction score
1,775
Location
Vandalia, Ohio
Vehicle(s)
23 JLU Reign Rubicon 14 Mazda, 22 Hyundia Santa Fe
My stock 2022 AEV JL370 JLURD (37s, hot stamped boron steel bumpers, 2.5" lift, Warn winch, diff covers, fuel caddy) weighed in at 5,660 pounds without passengers. That's without the monster bag of recovery gear.

I've subsequently added NVM aluminum skids w/UHMW, a MetalCloak roof rack, and RockSlide Engineering sliders. That put me close to the legal limit. Empty. No people. No recovery gear. No camping gear.

There's a Goose Gear drawer sitting in the garage that my wife insisted on getting. I don't know how heavy it is, but I can't lift it solo. I won't be putting that in (along with the Dometic fridge) until I put their stiffer 3" springs on. I periodically hit the bump stops on trail and it's "a bit" squirrelly hitting bumps on the interstate at 85mph. Yes, it handled exceptionally at speed before adding all that weight.

Some people don't give a damn about how much their Jeep weighs, but that weight obviously impacts acceleration, braking, handling, mileage, and how the suspension reacts. Maybe those people just don't notice the significant differences?
Don't forget about the "fudge" factor. Everything that has been manufactured has a weight limits. But there is always the Fudge factor. If a manufacture tells you that a brand new ladder has a 300 lb weight limit, then it will safely hold 400. If it failed at 301 lbs, then they are risking lawsuits from injured people. Now keep in mind the fudge factor only applies to brand new undamaged things. Once there is wear and tear on something you cannot "trust" the fudge factor or once the product get old and damaged (maybe rust in this case) the original weight restrictions. If they say you can safely tow 3000 lbs, you can probably easily tow 4000 lbs. But the risk of damaging an expensive vehicle by exceeding the listed weight restrictions can be expensive, so exceed the limits at your own risk.
 

ABRubi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2022
Threads
0
Messages
111
Reaction score
238
Location
America
Vehicle(s)
22 JLUR
True, but the op was discussing payload/cargo capacity, not GVWR.

The Jeep weighs 5900 lbs. That leaves 200 lbs. of payload. GVWR and payload are interconnected.
 
Last edited:

Sponsored

four low

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2017
Threads
13
Messages
3,112
Reaction score
3,670
Location
central New York
Vehicle(s)
2018 JL
Unless you use the lockers, running a different diameter spare won't cause any problems even in 4wd. The XJ's even came with a donut spare on some trims.
Anyone with LSD , a common option, would be in trouble, alas. The tires could be swapped , so the axle ends matched, and the mini spare used on the front. Any LSD I had, always came with a matching spare, even in a Renegade, Trail Hawk .
 

JeepinJason33

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2020
Threads
40
Messages
1,162
Reaction score
1,355
Location
Denver
Vehicle(s)
2021 JLUR, 2021 GCL, 1997 TJ, 1983 Chief FSJ
Clubs
 
Just weighed my Jeep 3.6L and my neighbors 392 a few weekends ago at a CAT scale. We are both running the same MC lift, underbelly, similar body armor, and the same beadlocks and 37" tires. At the time we had hardtop and full doors. I have a few more misc. items like dynomat, coverking headliner, compressors, etc. Both running 3/4 tank of gas. Only other difference is he is running coilovers. Without anyone in the vehicles I weighed in at 5980 and he was 6350.

We are both big guys, 250 and carry at least another 130 lb passenger on most of our wheeling trips so we are well over the weight limit. He is planning on Currie 70's and I am going to run Dana 60's. That will add weight, but with the bigger springs and better brakes, it should help offset the overage. The axles can handle the weight. So, is the worry that the frame is not going to hold up? I don't see that as a problem either.

As far as legality, for emissions tests, they do not weigh the vehicle. I have not heard of a non-commercial vehicle that is not towing something ever being weighed as part of a basic accident investigation.
 

Zandcwhite

Well-Known Member
First Name
Zach
Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Threads
10
Messages
4,249
Reaction score
7,578
Location
Patterson, ca
Vehicle(s)
2019 jlur
It was more a curiosity. Even if I had my wife and two boys in the Jeep at the same time Id have over 200lbs left. Granted, 850lbs to me sounds ridiculously low. I weight 230 myself and both the boys are still teens. One of them being a good bit taller than I am. I can bet as an adult, especially if he bulks up more, he will weigh as much as I do. Just seems crazy that if all of us were adults you almost cant put anything else in the Jeep.
GVWR is stupid low on a lot of vehicles it seems these days. My 2017 ram rebel only leaves like 970lb capacity if I recall correctly. Put 5 large adults in there and it's over weight in a pickup with an empty bed! And the thing is rated to tow 11k lbs so if you're arguing it is brake/engine/cooling system/ or even frame strength limited something doesn't add up. While it still had the air suspension I hauled a 2500lb pallet of bird seed 200 miles up into the mountains with 500+lbs of passengers. Sat level, handled fine, acceleration was good, braking was fine. 80k+ miles later and it clearly didn't damage anything. Now it's got tuf springs that advertise 50% payload increase and I'd have no issue throwing 1500+lbs in it at any time.
 

Yogi

Well-Known Member
First Name
Michael
Joined
May 12, 2020
Threads
10
Messages
379
Reaction score
526
Location
Port Dover, Ontario, Canada
Vehicle(s)
2019 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon
Occupation
GM, P.Log, CITT, 310T
The weight of your tires doesn’t affect payload capability, so you actually aren’t as close as it would appear.
Completely incorrect.
The Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) is an engineered number derived from the the axle assembly weight carrying capacity (which is an engineered number), (stock) tire load carrying capacity, and axle spacing i.e. center of the steer axle to center of the drive axle.
The difference between the GVWR and the actual weight of your vehicle is your payload.
In this case vehicle weight plus payload cannot total more than 6,100 lbs.
Where in the vehicle you place that payload is important. I'm sure you noticed the Gross Axle Weight Rating (GAWR) numbers as well denoting each axle can only have a scaled weight of 3,100 lbs.
One could fairly assume that GAWR + GAWR = GVWR, and usually that would be correct except there is the issue of axle spacing. In the case of a Jeep I do not know whether they are too close or too far apart but whichever it is, it costs 100 lbs.
For example, after you put all your add-ons on the vehicle, load up your camping gear, put your wife in the jump seat, and your two dogs in the back seat, you cross a scale and come in at 6,050 lbs. You're thinking "Jackpot ... I'm under weight" until you get axle weighed and find out you are 2,700 lbs on the steer axle and 3,350 lbs on the drive axle. You're getting an axle overweight ticket, plus you have to move 250 lbs off the drive axle, and put it on the steer axle if you want to keep it. Otherwise that 250 lbs has to come off the vehicle.
Furthermore, if the scaled weight on your drive axle at 3,350 lbs causes the load rating of your drive tires to be exceeded, you're going to get a ticket for that too. FWIW; NYS really likes that one.
To be fair, the information I am giving comes from the trucking industry. As a commercial carrier I get to deal with this shit every day as we cross multiple scales day in and day out. In reality it is highly unlikely that DOT or police are going to weigh your Jeep, or any non-commercial vehicle for that matter, unless it appears to be so overloaded that it doesn't even drive properly. If in fact you do get weighed, I would suspect that being overweight is the least of your problems as you have most likely been pulled in/over for myriad of other issues, and overweight tickets are simply icing on the cake.
As for increasing GVWR, yes, absolutely you can. Depending on where your vehicle is registered denotes how difficult or easy it is to accomplish. Here in Ontario you would need to put in heavier axle assemblies, tires with a higher load rating, and brakes that will stop the weight, then have it certified. TBH ... I am uncertain whether a certified mechanic can do this or whether you need an engineer to do it as I haven't done one in over 30 years.
Sponsored

 
 



Top