Max Payload for Overlanding

[Mad Hatter]

Hey, Steve F, that's some trailer we are peeking at. Any photos of it elsewhere on this forum? If not, this IS a thread about overlanding and payloads...

Thanks!

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[SecondTJ]

That's estimated for stock tires

That payload capacity of 850lbs is a joke and mostly due to tires.

I don’t understand this tire myth. The tire weight capacity exceeds gross axle weight capacity

JLUR factory tires have a load rated of 5,510 lbs per axle.

F/R GAWR is 3,100 lbs

 

[OllieChristopher]

I hear this insurance idea all the time, show me an accident large enough that an insurance company would even think about weighing your vehicle and yet somehow all the contents are still inside?

Anytime there is a fatality or serious injury, every single factor including all vehicles and persons involved is investigated. This not only includes weight of vehicles but a whole bunch of other variables. This even includes checking for non DOT compliance hardware and any modification done that does not meet DOT or FMCSA (if commercial vehicle is involved) regulation.

Marlon, I recommend going as light as possible when packing for cross country/camping. If you think like a backpacker then you will be able to trim off a lot of junk.

A few suggestions right off the bat is carry a collapsible fuel bag, a few MSR dromedary bags, and a small portable water purification device. And this is just a start.

Lightweight tool systems such as this go a long way:

Consider a set of both Knipex smooth face and Cobra pliers along with a few different size Vise Grips. Also Quick Steel, duct tape (peeled and laid flat), zip ties (Thomas & Betts with stainless inserts), stainless zip ties, roll of .041 aircraft safety wire and twist pliers, etc.

 

[roaniecowpony]

Save a sleeping bag, sleep in a motel.

 

[Zandcwhite]

Anytime there is a fatality or serious injury, every single factor including all vehicles and persons involved is investigated. This not only includes weight of vehicles but a whole bunch of other variables. This even includes checking for non DOT compliance hardware and any modification done that does not meet DOT or FMCSA (if commercial vehicle is involved) regulation.

Marlon, I recommend going as light as possible when packing for cross country/camping. If you think like a backpacker then you will be able to trim off a lot of junk.

A few suggestions right off the bat is carry a collapsible fuel bag, a few MSR dromedary bags, and a small portable water purification device. And this is just a start.

Lightweight tool systems such as this go a long way:

Consider a set of both Knipex smooth face and Cobra pliers along with a few different size Vise Grips. Also Quick Steel, duct tape (peeled and laid flat), zip ties (Thomas & Betts with stainless inserts), stainless zip ties, roll of .041 aircraft safety wire and twist pliers, etc.

So in this fatal accident, they'll weigh the vehicle without any fluid spilled, all gear accumulated, and the bodies still inside? We are talking about possibly being over by a couple hundred lbs, not hauling a Honda civic in the back of the rig. Payload isn't the number they look at anyway, gvwr is. When the occupants are removed, there goes 3-400 lbs. Tank of fuel that likely spills in a fatal collision ~150lbs. Again, crash an overland vehicle bad enough to kill and not spill a drop? It's never going to happen.

 

[entropy]

I don’t understand this tire myth. The tire weight capacity exceeds gross axle weight capacity

JLUR factory tires have a load rated of 5,510 lbs per axle.

F/R GAWR is 3,100 lbs

Lol. i went through this payload rabbit hole a year ago. the myth comes from the fact that the payload capacity shows on the tire sticker I believe. something about the tire not handling the load safely on the JL somebody said.

if you calculate payload by the numbers shown on the manual (curb weight and GVWR) you dont get the door sticker number, you get something over 1,000lbs.

To make this matter more confusing. Sahara, sport, sport s, willys. they all have the same number on the sticker even though some might have a d44 rear, bigger brakes, rock sliders, steps, etc... You name it. soft top or hardtop configurations also show the same payload number by the door sticker. Even though the hardtop weighs about 150lbs. Different tires too, A/T, street tires. Same number. The rubicon falken wildpeaks are 10lbs (unsprung weight) heavier per tire than ko2. same number. base sport wheels are steel vs. sport s aluminum. same number.

 

[OllieChristopher]

So in this fatal accident, they'll weigh the vehicle without any fluid spilled, all gear accumulated, and the bodies still inside? We are talking about possibly being over by a couple hundred lbs, not hauling a Honda civic in the back of the rig. Payload isn't the number they look at anyway, gvwr is. When the occupants are removed, there goes 3-400 lbs. Tank of fuel that likely spills in a fatal collision ~150lbs. Again, crash an overland vehicle bad enough to kill and not spill a drop? It's never going to happen.

Zach, Your mind is already made up so no worries on my end. I'm not here to argue the point. I'm just letting you know what happens. BTW, if a vehicle is so much as a few ounces over the GVWR a good attorney can make a convincible arguments to cause and negligence. There are many more factors besides being over the GVWR in a fatality accident investigation.

 

[Vinman]

If you want to know the exact weight you can add to your particular Jeep the best, most accurate way to get that number is to empty everything that didn’t come with the Jeep and go get it weighed at a certified weigh scale. Now take the GVWR off the door placard, (mine is 5,800 lbs) and subtract the actual empty weight you have from the scale. The balance you have is the amount of weight you can add while staying within the GVWR.

An even better method is to have all your mods installed, ie. winch, lift and tires, roof-rack etc and weigh it like that and the resulting number will be the amount of additional cargo/passengers you can carry.

 

[Vinman]

Zach, Your mind is already made up so no worries on my end. I'm not here to argue the point. I'm just letting you know what happens. BTW, if a vehicle is so much as a few ounces over the GVWR a good attorney can make a convincible arguments to cause and negligence. There are many more factors besides being over the GVWR in a fatality accident investigation.

Can you provide any examples of actual cases in the non-commercial world where that has happened?

 

[bigbaozi]

Definitely think like a backpacker, leave the big griddle at home, carry a light stove. Don't try to bring a massive LP bottle, bring a couple of small ones, you can buy them almost anywhere. Most of the places we camp water purification isn't an option, but try to keep the carried water down to 5-10 gallons. Our kitchen box is pretty sparse, enough stuff for 2 people to cook/eat and that is it. Small bottles when we can. Luxury BS stays at home.

Make sure you deduct the weight of the soft top from the hard top, helps your #'s some.

Be careful with all that weight over your head, it will make your Wrangler tippy. You may need to take the tent off for some trails, branches are the enemy (so are parking garages).

We got pretty close to GVWR on ours, based on calculations. I was always too lazy to stop at a scale and verify. I doubt we exceeded by more than 100 pounds. It makes a very big difference in the handling and braking.

Our RTT got recalled and I don't think we will be buying another one, it's so much easier to pack and not have to worry about that pig on top (plus it's way more pleasant to drive).

 

[JimLee]

Anytime there is a fatality or serious injury, every single factor including all vehicles and persons involved is investigated. This not only includes weight of vehicles but a whole bunch of other variables. This even includes checking for non DOT compliance hardware and any modification done that does not meet DOT or FMCSA (if commercial vehicle is involved) regulation.

 

[Zandcwhite]

Zach, Your mind is already made up so no worries on my end. I'm not here to argue the point. I'm just letting you know what happens. BTW, if a vehicle is so much as a few ounces over the GVWR a good attorney can make a convincible arguments to cause and negligence. There are many more factors besides being over the GVWR in a fatality accident investigation.

Exactly, there are many more important contributing factors involved in a fatal accident investigation. For instance if my barely overloaded rig is stopped in traffic and your texting client fails to stop and slams in to me dying in the process, no attorney on the planet is going to place blame on me. The load would have to be a contributing factor in said accident. I wouldn’t drive my Jeep out to the most remote locations I can find if I spent my life worrying about absolute worst case scenarios, but you do you. If you look at the minimal fines involved with overweight citations for commercial vehicles (generally $65 for being up to 10k lbs over) and the massive number of those citations issued (and said overweight rigs sent on their marry way), your concerns are theoretical and virtually do not apply to the real world. You’ll likely win the lotto and be struck by lightning twice before you have any issue with being over by a few hundred pounds.

 

[Mad Hatter]

Ollie, you mention some highest quality brands of tools there--which have prices to match. KC Tool carries a lot of German tools for those with that inkling...

Regarding collapsible containers, I wouldn't hesitate to use an MSR Dromedary Bag for water, but collapsible fuel bladders make me nervous. Unless military-grade, drop-out-of-aircraft robust, there are so many things that could go wrong. A pinhole leak might not result in loss of gallons, but you don't want gasoline vapors building up to LEL (Lower Explosive Limit) levels. Do you suggest any particular fuel bladders?

I have two Wavian jerry cans, but I actually prefer safety cans with flashback arrestors for storage in my garage. For water I have multiple containers, but for SHTF or long camping purposes some poly jerry cans from Scepter specifically designed and labeled for water.

I also stock in my basement some cases of gallon containers of spring water. I used to worry about when they went out of date, but then I realized that "expired" water can be used to flush toilets. That would be only necessary if water pressure was lost.

Whether camping or prepping, it is important to have at least two different ways of purifying water. That way if one fails, you aren't guaranteed to get sick. Also note the differences between water filters and purifiers. Purifiers remove viruses, filters do not. That's why people often use purifying tablets after filtering questionable water.

Sorry for my slight wandering, but one can be off the grid at home or away, and choice of equipment is often similar...

 

[Zandcwhite]

If you want to know the exact weight you can add to your particular Jeep the best, most accurate way to get that number is to empty everything that didn’t come with the Jeep and go get it weighed at a certified weigh scale. Now take the GVWR off the door placard, (mine is 5,800 lbs) and subtract the actual empty weight you have from the scale. The balance you have is the amount of weight you can add while staying within the GVWR.

An even better method is to have all your mods installed, ie. winch, lift and tires, roof-rack etc and weigh it like that and the resulting number will be the amount of additional cargo/passengers you can carry.

Or weigh it with the actual load you plan to carry and know for a fact what it all weighs going down the road.

 

[huyfishin]

If you make your way around Calgary, Alberta and want to camp I’d be happy to show you a couple of nice remote spots between Calgary and Banff

This is a bit far lol but worth the trip

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