Payload vs Upgrades -- a cautionary tale

[Headbarcode]

My FAD Failed this weekend. I off-road about 2 times per month... So I am thinking of Deleting the FAD, and go with RCV Axle Shafts to do so.

https://www.rcvperformance.com/ulti...set-for-jeep-wrangler-jl-rubicon-1-piece.html

I know the Front Driveshaft will now spin, and that may or may not be problematic... So I am not sure on the Plan of action at this moment.

This is the Broken Piece I found when I removed the FAD.

It isn't the c-clip... seems like Plastic?

My FAD failed and the dealer replaced the drive train control module and the switch at the FAD. Works correctly now. I plan to do the FAD delete and add the truss. I hope the axles are good enough to avoid the RCV cost.

Just a friendly heads up. As CarbonSteel mentioned a couple pages back, a FAD delete on a factory axle may result in vibrations at highway speeds. I say "may" rather than "will", because it depends on where your caster is set. If at factory specs, which tend to be too low in actuality, than it should be fine. If caster has been set to the 6-6.5° happy range, the pinion will be at too much of a down angle in relation to the driveshaft, because Dana welded the inner C's to Jeeps caster specs. This will be amplified in relation to any lifted ride heights.

For those of us that increased caster to correct steering feel, having the FAD in play keeps those vibrations away. And if road conditions become bad enough to require 4hi, it's nothing shy of foolish to still be driving at those higher vibration inducing speeds anyway.

That's why I opted for the 2-piece RCV's on my JLUR. They are twice as strong as the oem Rubicon Dana 44 shafts, and stronger than Dana 60 ujoint shafts. The 1-piece version is only marginally stronger than the 2-piece.

The FAD weakness is due to the window in the axle tube, rather than in the shafts themselves. Strengthening the tube, while retaining the FAD, will fruit the most benefits.

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[Zandcwhite]

Just a friendly heads up. As CarbonSteel mentioned a couple pages back, a FAD delete on a factory axle may result in vibrations at highway speeds. I say "may" rather than "will", because it depends on where your caster is set. If at factory specs, which tend to be too low in actuality, than it should be fine. If caster has been set to the 6-6.5° happy range, the pinion will be at too much of a down angle in relation to the driveshaft, because Dana welded the inner C's to Jeeps caster specs. This will be amplified in relation to any lifted ride heights.

For those of us that increased caster to correct steering feel, having the FAD in play keeps those vibrations away. And if road conditions become bad enough to require 4hi, it's nothing shy of foolish to still be driving at those higher vibration inducing speeds anyway.

That's why I opted for the 2-piece RCV's on my JLUR. They are twice as strong as the oem Rubicon Dana 44 shafts, and stronger than Dana 60 ujoint shafts. The 1-piece version is only marginally stronger than the 2-piece.

The FAD weakness is due to the window in the axle tube, rather than in the shafts themselves. Strengthening the tube, while retaining the FAD, will fruit the most benefits.

I think the potential vibrations are over played. I have run 7⁰ to 8⁰ of caster in both JLs we've owned, both on 3.5" of lift, and never felt any vibrations in 4HI. Unlike most, we run wide open desert trails at freeway speed. Sometimes in 2wd and sometimes in 4hi. We were hitting 50+ yesterday in 5ft deep snow. I think you'd have to be running 6+" of lift or double digit caster for it to be a problem in a JLU in my experience.

 

[Headbarcode]

I think the potential vibrations are over played. I have run 7⁰ to 8⁰ of caster in both JLs we've owned, both on 3.5" of lift, and never felt any vibrations in 4HI. Unlike most, we run wide open desert trails at freeway speed. Sometimes in 2wd and sometimes in 4hi. We were hitting 50+ yesterday in 5ft deep snow. I think you'd have to be running 6+" of lift or double digit caster for it to be a problem in a JLU in my experience.

You know the deal. There's so many factors involved, that what works for some Jeeps doesn't work for others. About 6.5-7° caster is my sweet spot, sitting 5.5" above stock height in the front and 6" in the rear. I tried getting greedy by chasing up on 8°, but it caused a drop in the ride and handling quality with my specific Jeep and setup.

I just simply wanted to help others to avoid dropping a decent amount of cash on a set of 1-piece RCV's, that are only marginally stronger than the 2-piece version, just to possibly end up with a vibration. On top of that, the real FAD weakness (window punched in the axle tube) will still be in play.

The safest money would be the 2-piece RCV's, which are stronger than Dana 60's, and a strengthened factory axle tube. I'd personally rather avoid any possible negative side effects, just to gain a marginal further increase in axle shaft strength.

 

[DonBucket]

Just a friendly heads up. As CarbonSteel mentioned a couple pages back, a FAD delete on a factory axle may result in vibrations at highway speeds. I say "may" rather than "will", because it depends on where your caster is set. If at factory specs, which tend to be too low in actuality, than it should be fine. If caster has been set to the 6-6.5° happy range, the pinion will be at too much of a down angle in relation to the driveshaft, because Dana welded the inner C's to Jeeps caster specs. This will be amplified in relation to any lifted ride heights.

For those of us that increased caster to correct steering feel, having the FAD in play keeps those vibrations away. And if road conditions become bad enough to require 4hi, it's nothing shy of foolish to still be driving at those higher vibration inducing speeds anyway.

That's why I opted for the 2-piece RCV's on my JLUR. They are twice as strong as the oem Rubicon Dana 44 shafts, and stronger than Dana 60 ujoint shafts. The 1-piece version is only marginally stronger than the 2-piece.

The FAD weakness is due to the window in the axle tube, rather than in the shafts themselves. Strengthening the tube, while retaining the FAD, will fruit the most benefits.

Thank you. I called RCV as well, and they claimed the have not had a 2-piece axle fail, but get multiple guys calling back after the 1-piece having an issue with vibration.

Because I still drive to the trail (2 Hours Highway) I am going to Keep the FAD and get the 2-Piece RCV.

 

[JMP]

Found this thread. I know it’s old but it’s worth another revival.

I too was way overweight, I hated how it drove, and especially how it wheeled. With 3 people I was at over 6400 pounds. It’s the V6 etorque, so it’s heavier to start. I lost about 350 pounds with Artec skids and NVM bumpers. I try to load it lightly now. A small Bouge RV fridge that, bonus, I can fit in the front seat at night and sleep in the back. Don’t need a RTT, or to even carry a tent. Have a light aluminum shelf in back that I sleep under… it carries my 3 hard sided camping boxes (shrinking to 2). Two rotopax storage boxes hang under it for essentials. Minimal and lightweight camping supplies, yet I have everything I need. It baffles me why people insist on heavy drawers and racks they can’t possibly utilize efficiently and waste so much weight and space.

Fridge slider: 30lbs
Dometic: 65lbs
T4-T8 tent: 30-56 lbs

Thats 150lbs because they wanted a huge fridge. Meanwhile I can camp for weeks with my little 20lbs fridge, especially if I cycle water bottles through it.

Saved: 130lbs.

I weighed a couple days ago with full recovery gear and tools, skids, all the LCA and diff skids, winch, lights, heavy sliders, axe, shovel, tread boards, and ARB onboard air (heavy). 5480 (after discounting the 100 lbs of extra rubber). I know my lift weighs more than standard too. If I’m on tough trails I’m happy to pull the spare… 5370. Before my weight cutting I was at 5720 without the spare!!!!

Hard top and doors off for Pritchett or something crazy… 5010, and .7” more lift. It’s insane how much difference the changes we do make. I want to say that’s like a 25% reduction in sprung weight. It drives SOOOO much better now than before. And the RK springs, my third attempt at good springs, carry this medium weight very well.

Love the rig again!

 

[21JLURDG]

Much has been discussed in these pages about the low payload of our Jeeps and that adding armor and other upgrades could significantly affect the available cargo weight available. From experience with previous vehicles and the disadvantage of excess weight in off-road performance, I planned this build-up to limit weight increase while balancing relative costs. After finishing the major upgrades, I decided to weigh my Jeep and I was shocked by little payload I had available, even after limiting my mods and spending extra for lighter components.

I kept my OEM steel bumpers because I suspect they are lighter than aftermarket steel bumpers, and got creative making them work with a Hi-Lift and shackles. I added 37” tires but kept a stock (mini) spare for the lighter weight. The rock rails and underbody skids were specifically chosen for their weight savings. I also kept the OEM plastic flares and didn’t add any spare fuel/water containers.

In the attached pictures, you can see the stock Jeep had an 800 lbs. payload with a maximum vehicle weight 6100 lbs. (but each axle limited to 3100 lbs.). The scale receipt shows the Jeep now weights 5900 lbs. with full diesel and DEF tanks, but no people or cargo inside (besides the standard recovery gear always onboard). Add a driver and a lunch bag, and I can tell my wife to stay home!

While my Jeep (JLURD w/hard top & most options) was probably one of the most payload-limited, I suspect many of you that have gone with heavier bumpers and armor are probably very overweight. If you have upgraded your Jeep with bigger tires and armor, then weighted, please post your results.

I recently added 40s, swapped to HD steering, installed stronger axle shafts and driveshafts, swapped to aluminum fender flares and inner fender liners. It added 180 lbs.

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