Thoughts on my plan to avoid future Start/Stop issues???

[Deleted User 38384]

You'll solve nothing. The problems people have isn't with the Start/Stop engaging, but with two dissimilar batteries connected in parallel. The batteries are still connected this way whether you push the button or not.

Basically this, disabling the start/stop is cool and all, and if you want to press it every single time you start the vehicle, more power to you, but all the issues you will have will continue as long as you have the main and the auxiliary battery.

I like weird things too, but I also like functionability, ease, and reliability. Having to remember to press the button every single time I turn the vehicle on would be a hassle for me. If I were in your shoes @Bobby Hank , and you were trying to cease the cause of all of the ESS issues. I would personally disable the auxiliary battery very early on in your ownership. On the flip side if you're worried about warranties, you're probably just screwed. You could always do like I did for the first 25,000 mi and remove your Hood sensor. Sure things at you every 2 seconds and tells you that your hood's open even when it's not, but after a while you get used to it and pretty good at ignoring your dash bothering you with lights and flashing shit. And then later when you want to get around to actually removing your auxiliary battery, you can.

I don't think we're moving the hood open sensor will void any warranties. If anything just tell them you lost it, and then if they ask you if you want to replace it, just tell them you already have one at home you just keep forgetting to install it. I don't think they can void your warranty for that. Although I wouldn't be shocked with some of the stories I hear from some of these dealerships.

I mean I waited 25,000 mi to get around to disabling my auxiliary battery, mostly because I was busy screwing with other stuff. It didn't even come on to my radar until my main battery died. At which point I went through and disabled the start stop by completely removing the auxiliary battery and rerouting all the wiring back to the main battery and then removing fuse number F42.

It's a rocky road, on one side you have warranties which are really handy to have, and on the other side you have pretty serious problems with the design of the vehicle from the factory. Personally, I never intended on ever having any warranty work done myself. I've always planned on voiding as many warranties as possible right from the beginning, which I'm proud to say I have done so very successfully.

I don't know if the dealership knows that I've voided my warranties yet, as to I haven't gone there since my last free oil change at 20,000 miles, but if I ever do go back, like when I go to get my high pressure fuel pump recall done, I'm sure they'll submit a couple voids at that point.

Not like I care, I wouldn't even go back for an actual warranty claim, which I actually have one at the moment. I'm just going to sit on it though and wait for the oil leakage to get bad and then go pay a local shop to smear some RTV under the timing cover. Timing covers don't go bad, shoty RTV coatings from the factory do!

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[Heimkehr]

The engine is started and idle by the time your foot is actually off the brake pedal. Nanosecond is a bit of an exaggeration.

A bit, yes, but the wear and tear over time on the engine and ancillary components that consistent use of ESS will certainly cause is an issue that deserves our attention. ESS is a hack, deserving of every bit of vitriol that can be directed its way.

 

[Sean L]

A bit, yes, but the wear and tear over time on the engine and ancillary components that consistent use of ESS will certainly cause is a hack that deserves every bit of vitriol that can be directed its way.

I only shut mine off when traffic is just inching forward. But normal use for me is like 3 or 4 autostops in any given day. That's not going to do much wear compared to the cold and dry start in the morning.

 

[Heimkehr]

I only shut mine off when traffic is just inching forward. But normal use for me is like 3 or 4 autostops in any given day. That's not going to do much wear compared to the cold and dry start in the morning.

I don't disagree, Sean. I'm playing the long game as it concerns the adverse effects of ESS on an engine. One man's use case isn't another's.

 

[Sean L]

I don't disagree, Sean. I'm playing the long game as it concerns the adverse effects of ESS on an engine. One man's use case isn't another's.

True. Which is why I turn it off if its just going to be a constant on/off cycle in stop and go traffic. I understand its usefulness has limits and I use it in a way I feel is appropriate. It just happens to be a very good fit for my use case. Someone living in a city with way more traffic than mine might be better off with the 4Xe if they still want to drive a Jeep. Or just suck it up and spend a lot of time at the gas station...

 

[Bobby Hank]

Basically this, disabling the start/stop is cool and all, and if you want to press it every single time you start the vehicle, more power to you, but all the issues you will have will continue as long as you have the main and the auxiliary battery.

I like weird things too, but I also like functionability, ease, and reliability. Having to remember to press the button every single time I turn the vehicle on would be a hassle for me. If I were in your shoes @Bobby Hank , and you were trying to cease the cause of all of the ESS issues. I would personally disable the auxiliary battery very early on in your ownership. On the flip side if you're worried about warranties, you're probably just screwed. You could always do like I did for the first 25,000 mi and remove your Hood sensor. Sure things at you every 2 seconds and tells you that your hood's open even when it's not, but after a while you get used to it and pretty good at ignoring your dash bothering you with lights and flashing shit. And then later when you want to get around to actually removing your auxiliary battery, you can.

I don't think we're moving the hood open sensor will void any warranties. If anything just tell them you lost it, and then if they ask you if you want to replace it, just tell them you already have one at home you just keep forgetting to install it. I don't think they can void your warranty for that. Although I wouldn't be shocked with some of the stories I hear from some of these dealerships.

I mean I waited 25,000 mi to get around to disabling my auxiliary battery, mostly because I was busy screwing with other stuff. It didn't even come on to my radar until my main battery died. At which point I went through and disabled the start stop by completely removing the auxiliary battery and rerouting all the wiring back to the main battery and then removing fuse number F42.

It's a rocky road, on one side you have warranties which are really handy to have, and on the other side you have pretty serious problems with the design of the vehicle from the factory. Personally, I never intended on ever having any warranty work done myself. I've always planned on voiding as many warranties as possible right from the beginning, which I'm proud to say I have done so very successfully.

I don't know if the dealership knows that I've voided my warranties yet, as to I haven't gone there since my last free oil change at 20,000 miles, but if I ever do go back, like when I go to get my high pressure fuel pump recall done, I'm sure they'll submit a couple voids at that point.

Not like I care, I wouldn't even go back for an actual warranty claim, which I actually have one at the moment. I'm just going to sit on it though and wait for the oil leakage to get bad and then go pay a local shop to smear some RTV under the timing cover. Timing covers don't go bad, shoty RTV coatings from the factory do!

I truly appreciate you writing all that, and should a problem with the batteries develop I'll reconsider my current plan, but until I have an issue, I won't try to fix it. I am NOT a mechanic (I'm a driver, master helmsman type). I'll probably just lay hands on my batteries and ask them to behave or Buddha won't recycle them into something better.

 

[Joe98]

..... start/stop system. This is a feature I don't happen to like at all

I get into my jeep and pretend I am piloting the Jupiter 2. I press 4 buttons...

Start
Auto-stop start to off
Radio - to on
Air - to on

Then take off ?

.

 

[Heimkehr]

I get into my jeep and pretend I am piloting the Jupiter 2. I press 4 buttons...

Start
Auto-stop start to off
Radio - to on
Air - to on

Then take off ?

My cousin, a commercial pilot, complemented me on my pre- and post-drive routine. He said that my consistent habits with buttons and knobs (similar to your own) reminded him of the disciplined approach that guys like him have to use in the flight deck.

Said habits are a collateral effect of doing similar with my motorcycles: checking tire pressures, oil level, lights and signals, etc. before ever swinging a leg over. ?

 

[Reinen]

I truly appreciate you writing all that, and should a problem with the batteries develop I'll reconsider my current plan, but until I have an issue, I won't try to fix it. I am NOT a mechanic (I'm a driver, master helmsman type). I'll probably just lay hands on my batteries and ask them to behave or Buddha won't recycle them into something better.

The real issue isn't ESS nor the dissimilar sized batteries. The dissimilar batteries aren't ideal but if you look into why it isn't ideal you'll find that in the grand scheme of things it's a very minor drop in the bucket. You can disable ESS if that's your preference but it's not the heart of the issue. Just keep in mind that ESS is an excellent "canary in the coal mine" for battery issues. It will be the first thing to go when batteries fail and nobody is ever inconvenienced if it doesn't work.

The root of it all is the large amount of modern electronics in the JL. They're always on to some degree. The JL is never completely "turned off". This causes a constant parasitic drain of the batteries which severely reduces their lifespan.

That's right, the most damaging thing people routinely do to their JL batteries is park their Jeep.

I'm 1 month shy of 3 years on the OEM batteries and they're still quite functional. Here's what I did.

1. My JL was an order that was driven immediately upon delivery. It didn't sit a single day on a dealer lot. I strongly suspect that the parasitic drain of the electronics while sitting on a dealer lot is a major contributor to OEM batteries failing early. Dealers do not put unsold Jeeps sitting on their lots on trickle chargers and the batteries suffer. The buyer almost never realizes the batteries on their brand new Jeep already have a significant amount of use and wear just from sitting on the lot.
2. I installed a hood solar panel. Whenever sunlight hits the hood the parasitic drain is eliminated and batteries are returned to 100% charge. All with zero effort on my behalf. This helps extend battery life considerably. It should be standard equipment on all vehicles at this point IMO.
3. About once per month or so (when I remember and it's convenient) I put a Noco Battery Charger on the batteries. A modern smart plug-in battery charger is a much more thorough way of charging batteries than a smart alternator and it helps restore them. Probably not as necessary with the hood solar panel, but I have it so I use it.
4. I confirm that all my aftermarket accessories do not contribute to the parasitic drain. Most people don't think to confirm that their aftermarket devices actually draw zero power when powered off. Some do and they reduce battery life. Anything that does contribute to parasitic drain by design is operated via an isolated lithium battery, which handles constant low power discharge much better than AGM. It also keeps working if someone disconnects the batteries which is important for security devices.

 

[Deleted User 38384]

I truly appreciate you writing all that, and should a problem with the batteries develop I'll reconsider my current plan, but until I have an issue, I won't try to fix it. I am NOT a mechanic (I'm a driver, master helmsman type). I'll probably just lay hands on my batteries and ask them to behave or Buddha won't recycle them into something better.

 

[Riverjeep]

I've been reading this forum daily since I put a deposit down on the new 2024 Rubicon X 2D 3.6, and I notice a lot of issues with the start/stop system. This is a feature I don't happen to like at all anyway, and I certainly do not want to invite future battery or electrical issues, or to put unnecessary wear in the engine continually starting. I've read about getting devices to permanently turn the feature off by remembering the last setting (off) on start up.
My idea is this: after hitting the start button to fire the old girl up, immediately and habitually turn off the Start/Stop feature. I am the sole driver. If I forget, I hit the button to disable when it turns off, reminding me (which rarely happens after the first few days of driving) that I hadn't done it yet. Seems to me it serves the same roll as an alteration, without fidgeting with the electronics or programming at all.
Anyone else following this plan? Is there something I am missing by making a semi-permanent solution with reprogramming, etc?

I actually like your plan and that is exactly what I will do when my '24 Rubicon comes in. If after giving it a reasonable amount of time I don't like doing this I will just buy another start stop eliminator.

 

[Vinman]

I thought I remembered when the JL first came out that you could disable start/stop by disconnecting one of the two hood closed indicator buttons. I'm sure you needed to disconnect the proper one but certainly cant remember that. My Jeep does not have it.

You absolutely can, I disabled mine by disconnecting hood switch within days of ownership.

 

[Flip]

I'm actually really good at programming my brain to do something as trivial as hitting a button every time I started my jeep however, when running errands around town hitting it every time just seem to get redundant, I bought the go, go gadget AutoStop Eliminator others have recommended. It's nice to have the option to leave it off or use it if I want too.

I'm sure you'll figure out what works for you.

 

[Kyanche]

I bought my Jeep 4 years ago and it currently has just over 8000 miles I think. The original batteries still work fine lol. I usually drive it once a day, but there are times where it sits for a week or so.

I have a 3.6 with ESS, and I hit the ESS button every time I remember after starting it up (which is most of the time). It hasn't turned off on its own in at least a year lol.

I haven't done anything special with regards to charging, but I did custom order my Jeep and pick it up a few days after it arrived at the dealer.

I also have power side steps that lower when a door is opened, the controller for those definitely has some parasitic drain. It doesn't seem to be enough to matter.

There was a period of time where I had the Jeep sitting in the garage for a couple of weeks, and after that the battery seemed kinda low when I started it. I thought my batteries were done for at that point, but somehow after a nice long drive they went back to normal and everything was fine.

So YMMV.

I don't like the aux battery design at all either because it seems like a pain in the butt. I think, almost every time a car battery has died on me, I was out and about and it happened in a parking lot. The little aux battery hides under the tray in the most obnoxious asinine way possible, and I don't think I'd be able to pull it out in a random parking lot.

I've thought heavily about switching to a genesis dual battery kit - especially before the little aux battery craps out, but it seems total overkill given how much I use my Jeep, and that I don't carry big lights or a refrigerator or anything like that. From what I've read, that system has its own issues too.

 

[bluemts]

As others have said, the factory batteries suck. Even if you don't use ESS.

But as an avid user of Start/Stop, I can say that when it suddenly stops working, that's an indicator that one or both batteries are bad.

My 2016 F150 did just that. Start/stop quit working and replacing the 12v battery fixed it. I let the battery go 6 years. No other issues. I leave auto start/stop on all the time.

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