Steering Stabilizer - Which One?

[AnnDee4444]

Curious your thoughts... I'm having a similar issue and starting to question the SS. Everyone says it doesn't matter but I'm starting to wonder. I had a "death wobble" incident. some may say it was a wobble incident. It was scary as sh*t though. I don't know if you've ever experienced speed wobble on a motorcycle but this was very similar. Anyway... scary. everyone says check, you have something loose. I've checked everything 3 times. I'm feel pretty confident nothing is loose. I don't feel anything is warn, although someone said to check the ball joints.

I don't know enough about SS to understand them. Could orientation matter? the synergy relocation kit has you flip the factory SS so the plastic boot is toward the wheel for more clearance. Could that change how it performs? I didn't think about it until I read your post.

I don't know how much help I can offer, as I'm still trying to figure it out myself. My stabilizer has seemed to gotten 'broken in', and I haven't had any episodes since.

I don't think the left-right orientation would have any effect, unless the relocation kit puts it at a different angle than stock. The stabilizer has an oil return path, and I suspect any more/less inclination would have some effect. Front/back rotation of the stabilizer my have an effect also. I haven't seen the relocation bracket in person, but I assume that it is strong enough not to deflect and also has the same motion ratio as the OEM location.

This actually triggered another thought: the 2-door & 4-door have different steering ratios. I wonder if the wobble gets far enough for the different ratios to exert different resistance from the power steering...

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[jlopes68]

Ok, just to help out a lil. All solid axle coil spring rigs can get DW, not just jeeps. The one constant is that the SS has absolutely nothing to do with it. All your SS is for is bump steer. It is impossible to get harmonic oscillation with only a bad SS. Most often the culprit is the trac bar or related brackets, but it has never been caused by what amounts to a shock absorber for your steering.

 

[AnnDee4444]

All your SS is for is bump steer.

From Wikipedia:

Bump steer or roll steer is the term for the tendency of the wheel of a car to steer itself as it moves through the suspension stroke.​

I can't speak for the designers, but the intended purpose of the steering stabilizer was probably in no way related to bump steer. Slowly cycling the suspension shows no indication of bump steer, as the track bar and drag link are close enough in length and angle.

However, I do think that by over damping the stabilizer it may be possible to cause bump steer through difference in bushings and deflections. Basically the first stabilizer I had was not as stiff, and allowed all the suspension parts to move more in sync with each other. The updated stiffer stabilizer makes the drag link react faster from jolting steering inputs from the tires, while the track bar is still deflecting at the same slower speed. The temporary difference in lengths could be enough for slight bump steer, possibly enough to trigger death wobble. This may also be why Jeep now has an updated track bar with stiffer bushings, which I don't have yet.

The tires are just giant springs, and just need the right scenario to get the oscillation started, which is why things like tire pressure have an effect. The steering stabilizer is essentially acting as a horizontal dampener for the tires just as the shocks are a vertical dampener. Think about what happens if your shocks are too stiff, then apply the same logic to the steering stabilizer.

Everything above is just my theory combined with late night ramblings... Sorry if it makes no sense.

 

[jlopes68]

From Wikipedia:

Bump steer or roll steer is the term for the tendency of the wheel of a car to steer itself as it moves through the suspension stroke.​

I can't speak for the designers, but the intended purpose of the steering stabilizer was probably in no way related to bump steer. Slowly cycling the suspension shows no indication of bump steer, as the track bar and drag link are close enough in length and angle.

However, I do think that by over damping the stabilizer it may be possible to cause bump steer through difference in bushings and deflections. Basically the first stabilizer I had was not as stiff, and allowed all the suspension parts to move more in sync with each other. The updated stiffer stabilizer makes the drag link react faster from jolting steering inputs from the tires, while the track bar is still deflecting at the same slower speed. The temporary difference in lengths could be enough for slight bump steer, possibly enough to trigger death wobble. This may also be why Jeep now has an updated track bar with stiffer bushings, which I don't have yet.

The tires are just giant springs, and just need the right scenario to get the oscillation started, which is why things like tire pressure have an effect. The steering stabilizer is essentially acting as a horizontal dampener for the tires just as the shocks are a vertical dampener. Think about what happens if your shocks are too stiff, then apply the same logic to the steering stabilizer.

Everything above is just my theory combined with late night ramblings... Sorry if it makes no sense.

I don't think you are grasping that the stabilizer is not a structural member. Harmonic oscillation happens when the entire axle is oscillating like a tuning fork. Hence the trac bar is the leading culprit. Bump steer is when you hit something like railroad tracks and your steering will wobble, or on a motorcycle you would say you went chock to chock, hence the reason bikes also have "steering stabilization"

 

[AnnDee4444]

I don't think you are grasping that the stabilizer is not a structural member. Harmonic oscillation happens when the entire axle is oscillating like a tuning fork. Hence the trac bar is the leading culprit. Bump steer is when you hit something like railroad tracks and your steering will wobble, or on a motorcycle you would say you went chock to chock, hence the reason bikes also have "steering stabilization"

Since bump steer in the Jeep is not caused by incorrect linkage angle or length, then the only way to have any bump steer is through deflection of bushings/linkage changing the length.

If you hit a bump and the track bar bushing deflects 1/4" to the drivers side, and if the slop in the steering also allows the track bar to deflect 1/4" to the drivers side at the same time, the spindles will stay straight.

If you hit a bump and the track bar bushing deflects 1/4" to the drivers side, and if the steering does not deflect due to an over dampened stabilizer, the spindles would turn (which is bump steer).

 

[Halstem1]

I would love if someone would take a factory stabilizer apart. Something is up with that thing. I swear. I replaced my stabilizer last weekend.

For the original topic, I went with the Fox through shaft that mounts on the 1.5" diameter tie rod that Synergy recommends. I wanted to stay with Fox because that is what I'm using for shocks. Also, that is what is recommended by Synergy which is now becoming my entire suspension system and I like to keep things with a same brand because they tend to work in harmony together. I debated the Fox ATS which is the adjustable version. I have a friend running the Falcon and has never adjusted it off of medium. I couldn't justify the extra 100$.

Regarding the factory stabilizer. I used the Synergy relocation kit which involved flipping the stabilizer over and changing its orientation. I'm not sure if changing in how its mounted or the fact that the steering components are physically heavier made the difference I was feeling. The steering felt "light" for 2 weeks. I was getting some "wobble" and had checked all torque specs and joints. I could not find anything that was moving. With the new stabilizer, steering feels back to what I would call normal. However the steering does not fill stiff in any way. I don't feel the wobble I was feeling. I don't think its being suppressed because it was pretty pronounced before.

I don't know. Still learning. Adding lower control arms next.

 

[Steveo]

A friend here on the forums ordered the Fox IFP SS to replace her stock one. When she installed it she got instant DW on a stock suspension. She promptly removed the Fox SS. After I destroyed my Fox IFP on the trail (never any DW on my Jeep, stock or otherwise) she shipped the Fox SS to me. When I installed it I also got instant DW. I reinstalled the factory SS and the DW went away. So there's that. I'm currently running the Fox TS damper and all Synergy components up front and I'm DW free.

 

[AnnDee4444]

A friend here on the forums ordered the Fox IFP SS to replace her stock one. When she installed it she got instant DW on a stock suspension. She promptly removed the Fox SS. After I destroyed my Fox IFP on the trail (never any DW on my Jeep, stock or otherwise) she shipped the Fox SS to me. When I installed it I also got instant DW. I reinstalled the factory SS and the DW went away. So there's that. I'm currently running the Fox TS damper and all Synergy components up front and I'm DW free.

What track bar were you using?

 

[Steveo]

What track bar were you using?

Stock TB on both Jeeps. (at the time of the IFP SS install)

 

[Steveo]

This is probably a good time to tell the story of how terrible Fox has been about providing a replacement damper. They were contacted regarding this clearly-defective-unit out of the box and their position is that if it was installed it's "used" in their view and can only be serviced and not replaced. You get to pay the shipping to their service facility as well.

 

[Halstem1]

A friend here on the forums ordered the Fox IFP SS to replace her stock one. When she installed it she got instant DW on a stock suspension. She promptly removed the Fox SS. After I destroyed my Fox IFP on the trail (never any DW on my Jeep, stock or otherwise) she shipped the Fox SS to me. When I installed it I also got instant DW. I reinstalled the factory SS and the DW went away. So there's that. I'm currently running the Fox TS damper and all Synergy components up front and I'm DW free.

I really wanted to flip the SS back to its factory position and test it but I had already removed all of the mounting points. Also, when I took it off it didn't feel as tight as it did when I put it on 2 weeks before. Like it felt easier to compress. Obviously that is subjective but still.

 

[Steveo]

I really wanted to flip the SS back to its factory position and test it but I had already removed all of the mounting points. Also, when I took it off it didn't feel as tight as it did when I put it on 2 weeks before. Like it felt easier to compress. Obviously that is subjective but still.

Did you use the Synergy stud on the axle side and the fox clamp on the tie rod side?

Here's what mine looks like.

 

[Halstem1]

Did you use the Synergy stud on the axle side and the fox clamp on the tie rod side?

Here's what mine looks like.

So I had the Synergy stud in with the stock stabilizer. I actually swapped it out for the Fox stud. I wasn't sure if that was where some of my problems were coming from. Also, I liked the nut on the end of the fox one better. However, the fox one is harder to torque. Mine looks the same as your now. So far is significantly better. I have a rancho track bar becuase the Synergy one wasn't out yet. I may swap that so all the components play nicely together.

 

[AllJumpStyle]

Just as a heads up, we used a small profile screw on our track bar stabilizer mount stud because we ran into interference issues running the Fox one. If you haven't cycled your suspension and steering to bump yet, you may have components that run into each other.

 

[limeade]

I have the Fox TS, Synergy Drag Link, Synergy Tie Rod (waiting for Northridge to get it in stock and shipped), Synergy Track Bar/Sector Shaft Brace, and Synergy relocation kit (if needed...wasn't sure) ready to be installed in a few weeks. I'm really looking forward to having a whole new steering system (minus a steering box)!

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