Start/Stop opinion?

[Pinky Tuscadero]

I wouldn't get it on purpose but I suppose its okay and does seem to be saving gas around here in southeast wisconsin which could also be called "the red light district"
I sure wouldn't have a fit about it being installed and rant and rave about it as I save that for important topics like "why the hell can't we get more pink Jeeps !!!"

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[Nitehawk92]

Sometimes there are temporary restrictions. My dealer said I had to order different rims. I’ve also had dealers refuse to order certain colors because they thought it would be hard to sell if I backed out. You can definitely build a V6 with and automatic transmission though, at least in the Rubicon trim, I just did it.

You can't get a manual transmission in a Sahara in 2023. The only choice is automatic transmission...

 

[JuzaMe]

ESS is asinine. Whomever came up with this idea should be stoned (rocks, not pot) to death. Do you want to know how I really feel?

 

[Mikester86]

1) Sit in drivers seat
2) Start Jeep
3) Press button to turn off ESS
4) Repeat process forever or until you purchase a device that will disable it permanently. I see nothing good about starting and stopping an engine a million freaking times. Goes against logic and common sense.

 

[YJdude]

Please elaborate. If there are valid reasons I would like to hear them.

Still waiting on those "valid reasons" @Rhinebeck01

 

[Rhinebeck01]

Still waiting on those "valid reasons" @Rhinebeck01

Do you really think I am going to type it all out here . Forum search, Internet search. As a basic Sport owner as I think you might be you will have fewer concerns then other's.

 

[Covet]

Curious what everyone’s opinion is on the start/stop function? This will be the first time I will own one and I’ve been wondering if they are bad on the starter and things like that. I really dislike that they have taking some options away from the Jeeps. You can no longer get a 6 cylinder in an automatic and can no longer order the Gorilla glass. I’m just curious what off roading will be like with a 4 cylinder and the start/stop function.

My current Wrangler does not have the start/stop switch. My previous (18 JLUR) did and with time I just turned starting it up and turning the start/stop off into a routine. Pressed the start, moved my hand over pressed the start/stop button, put it in drive and go. Was not that big of a deal to turn it off everytime after I made the 1-2 press a habit lol! Haven't driven the 4 cyl off road, have ridden in them and they perform well IMO.

 

[YJdude]

Do you really think I am going to type it all out here . Forum search, Internet search. As a basic Sport owner as I think you might be you will have fewer concerns then other's.

Well, sir.... since other forum members vouched for your knowledge and expertise in other threads here (when you were asked about your constant sales pitches) I was hoping you would bring something of value to the table that I may have missed while doing a "forum search, internet search".
I like the hood pin/warning light solution. I learned about it right here in this very forum... with a forum search.

 

[JEEP4U]

ESS - No Likey!

Unless you like the extra wear and tear associated with ESS.......Oil pressure 32psi to 0 psi.......heatsoak......electrical strain......Oil pressure 32psi to 0 psi.......heatsoak.......electrical strain......repeat.

 

[Jaysfan81]

I love it, especially during heavy traffic on the highway

 

[YJdude]

ESS - No Likey!

Unless you like the extra wear and tear associated with ESS.......Oil pressure 32psi to 0 psi.......heatsoak......electrical strain......Oil pressure 32psi to 0 psi.......heatsoak.......electrical strain......repeat.

EXACTLY!!!! Each of your points are matters of actual physics which will never be overcome by computer chips or some play on words in the owners manual telling us its some sort of state of the art design. This is the same vehicle that we are encouraged to make sure all the fuses are seated correctly when we buy new...lol

 

[Xcoaste]

3.6L with eTorque. Start / stop works great. Haven't turned it off since the day I bought it. When I bought my Jeep, you had to get eTorque with the 3.6. Would buy again.

 

[Asuriyan]

EXACTLY!!!! Each of your points are matters of actual physics which will never be overcome by computer chips or some play on words in the owners manual telling us its some sort of state of the art design. This is the same vehicle that we are encouraged to make sure all the fuses are seated correctly when we buy new...lol

So, I could get into as much engineering detail as you want about this, but the short version is that modern starters are a lot more durable than those from even 10-15 years ago. There's a lot going into minimizing starter wear - cam/cylinder position sensors, higher-torque (and lower-RPM) motors, solenoid decoupling of the brushes the instant the startup sequence is complete, needle bearings instead of oil bushings. The amperage of the whole system is lower, which minimizes heatsoak... the starter system in your JL (ETorque or no) is rated for 100x the MTBF compared to the starter in a JK. It's going to be one of the last of the major drivetrain components to fail on its own.

The 12V auxiliary battery, however... that's entirely another question, and that's been the source of 95% of the ESS failures on the JL (the remaining 5% are either sensor or fuse related). My recommendation on dealing with that is to replace the stock setup with the Genesis dual-battery kit as soon as feasible.

 

[unsavory]

So, I could get into as much engineering detail as you want about this, but the short version is that modern starters are a lot more durable than those from even 10-15 years ago. There's a lot going into minimizing starter wear - cam/cylinder position sensors, higher-torque (and lower-RPM) motors, solenoid decoupling of the brushes the instant the startup sequence is complete, needle bearings instead of oil bushings. The amperage of the whole system is lower, which minimizes heatsoak... the starter system in your JL (ETorque or no) is rated for 100x the MTBF compared to the starter in a JK. It's going to be one of the last of the major drivetrain components to fail on its own.

The 12V auxiliary battery, however... that's entirely another question, and that's been the source of 95% of the ESS failures on the JL (the remaining 5% are either sensor or fuse related). My recommendation on dealing with that is to replace the stock setup with the Genesis dual-battery kit as soon as feasible.

I don't think he's referring to heat soak within the starter, but rather the effect of all the systems being shut down every couple minutes, and all the fluid sitting there stagnant, soaking up heat because it's not circulating through the cooling systems, etc.

It's heat soak of the entire vehicle, which can't be good for it.

 

[Asuriyan]

I don't think he's referring to heat soak within the starter, but rather the effect of all the systems being shut down every couple minutes, and all the fluid sitting there stagnant, soaking up heat because it's not circulating through the cooling systems, etc.

It's heat soak of the entire vehicle, which can't be good for it.

That's fair. I'm an electrical engineer (heavy-industry powertrain integration) so V=IR was the first thing to come to mind. Wiring can get pretty hot in a high-current system like a starter-motor, which increases the resistance of the whole system, which increases the voltage requirements. Improvements in materials mean starters don't get nearly as hot as they used to, though, and the voltages are relatively low. When it auto-restarts, the starter applies exactly the needed torque to get the engine spinning again and no more, (those crank position sensors again) so minimal waste heat there as well.

With regard to engine and cooling system heat soak, hybrids have been finding ways to minimize that for decades. The simplest change is that the water pump runs independently of the engine. When your engine is stopped at a light, coolant is still circulating - so the block doesn't heat up. Your radiator temp will go up a few degrees, but it'll restart the engine long before it gets to the point that the fans would come on.

Think of it as more of a pause than a real stop.

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