Plushest riding Spring...

[word302]

Did you take account of the initial spring rate?

There are many factors that affect ride height. Spring rate is only a small part of the equation. Spring length is undoubtedly longer on the higher lift springs, among other things.

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[vavaroutsos]

Did you take account of the initial spring rate?

I can only make assumptions about the initial spring rate since the extended/collapsed length of this area of the spring is not specified. My assumption is that this portion of the spring is not that long and is collapsed under the weight of a 2-door or 4-door so would make no difference in the ride height between them. I figure a 2-door would be at least 800 lbs per corner, so at 110 lb/in rate the initial spring would need to be well over 7" to not get collapsed. That's over 1/3 the total spring length, but in the pics on Synergy's website it looks like the initial rate spring is less than 1/4 the total spring rate.

I really don't understand why all the coil spring vendors dumb things down so much that you can't figure out what you're going to get. I don't know why they don't just fully specify their springs so we can figure out what our ride height will be. Makes me want to get out the plasma cutter and put some towers in for coilovers.

 

[vavaroutsos]

There are many factors that affect ride height. Spring rate is only a small part of the equation. Spring length is undoubtedly longer on the higher lift springs, among other things.

I'm talking about the difference in ride height between 2-door and 4-door for the same springs, so the spring lengths and rates are the same. The only difference is the corner weights between 2-door and 4-door. Synergy claims 1" difference in ride height between 2-door and 4-door.

 

[AnnDee4444]

The required bump stop spacing is to prevent the coil springs from going into coil bind. When getting more travel out of the springs, the block height increases.

I have been thinking about this over the past few days, and it still doesn't quite make sense.

If your spring requires a 2" bump stop extension, then the tire will not be able to compress into the wheelwell as much. It should be a little bit more than 2" of compression lost. I can see how this won't be an issue if you are running 37s, as you would probably need more bump stop to keep from rubbing anyway (4" taller tire/2 = 2"). My concern is when running smaller tires that won't rub. Does the opposite side really gain more than 2" of additional droop? If it was exactly 2" of additional droop, wouldn't that just cancel-out the travel that was lost on the compressed side?

I guess what I am missing here is the extended length of the OEM coils. The tables you posted are great, but I don't have a frame of reference to properly compare. Any chance you can share the OEM data with us?

 

[Arterius2]

I have been thinking about this over the past few days, and it still doesn't quite make sense.

If your spring requires a 2" bump stop extension, then the tire will not be able to compress into the wheelwell as much. It should be a little bit more than 2" of compression lost. I can see how this won't be an issue if you are running 37s, as you would probably need more bump stop to keep from rubbing anyway (4" taller tire/2 = 2"). My concern is when running smaller tires that won't rub. Does the opposite side really gain more than 2" of additional droop? If it was exactly 2" of additional droop, wouldn't that just cancel-out the travel that was lost on the compressed side?

I guess what I am missing here is the extended length of the OEM coils. The tables you posted are great, but I don't have a frame of reference to properly compare. Any chance you can share the OEM data with us?

I think it makes sense to me.
Think of it this way.
These so called "1 inch" springs are essentially the same as the 2 inch except for lower spring rate, so both require the same 2" bump stop extension to prevent coil bind.
So they will have the same compression and extended length, but softer. In fact, these 1" are the exact same springs used for the 2" kit for the 2 door. So of course they will need 2" bump stops.
Because they have lower spring rate/are softer, they will compress a little more due to weight of the Jeep and sit 1" lower at ride height.

 

[AnnDee4444]

I think it makes sense to me.
Think of it this way.
These so called "1 inch" springs are essentially the same as the 2 inch except for lower spring rate, so both require the same 2" bump stop extension to prevent coil bind. In fact, these 1" are the exact same springs used for the 2" kit for the 2 door. So of course they will need 2" bump stops.
So they will have the same compression and extended length, but softer. In fact, these 1" are the exact same springs used for the 2" kit for the 2 door. So of course they will need 2" bump stops.
Because they have lower spring rate/are softer, they will compress a little more due to weight of the Jeep and sit 1" lower at ride height.

I understand this, but where I'm lost is if they are actually gaining any articulation. If you loose 2" of compression on one side, and gain 2" of droop on the other, then you are right back where you started (they would cancel each other out). This might not be the case, and I would hope they are getting more droop. The only way I can think to compare would be against the OEM spring's extended length, or CTI score.

 

[vavaroutsos]

I understand this, but where I'm lost is if they are actually gaining any articulation. If you loose 2" of compression on one side, and gain 2" of droop on the other, then you are right back where you started (they would cancel each other out). This might not be the case, and I would hope they are getting more droop. The only way I can think to compare would be against the OEM spring's extended length, or CTI score.

I'm pretty sure these springs are a fair bit longer than stock. Stock Rubicon front shocks are about 23.5" fully extended. The upper/lower shock mounts are way above/below the coil seats. The Synergy springs are only an inch or two shorter than the stock Rubicon shock, so that tells me they will allow for quite a bit more droop than the shock allows before unseating.

 

[DVJeeper]

I agree, tuned shocks are subjective, but I think a lot of it comes down to experience and what the goal is. For example, I'm sure Falcon achieved their goal when they released their shocks, but not everyone has been happy with them. They sacrificed some comfort for ride stability. Fox went a slightly different direction with their Fox IFP's and they are comfortable but lack some control.

My only comment on "clicker" shocks is they use flow restrictors to change the damping characteristics (The Fox DSC's use pre-loaded shims as well). Usually, these are very narrow bands of adjustment and while they will make the shock feel different, they are only adjusting a single aspect of the shock's performance, usually high-speed compression, when some of the most significant improvements can be found in adjusting rebound, low-speed compression, and the mid-speed stack.

Sorry for the shock question in a spring post, are Fox 2.5 DSC's in the same boat as other clicker shocks? what about King 2.5" with adjusters?

 

[vavaroutsos]

Sorry for the shock question in a spring post, are Fox 2.5 DSC's in the same boat as other clicker shocks? what about King 2.5" with adjusters?

I wouldn't put them in the same boat. The DSC stands for dual speed compression, which means the shock has both a high speed and a low speed compression adjuster. Not too many shocks have this. Fox also uses pretty good seals and shaft metal.

 

[JLAFAKASI]

Rock Krawler's rates are almost identical to factory. The ride will feel about the same, with a possibility of it being slightly improved since you're taking the spacer out and going back to the coil being seated in the "rubber" isolators both top and bottom.

It should sit about the same as your spacer lift, maybe a tad higher. RK's lift heights on the JL are as stated and are very accurate.

If you decide to give their stuff a shot I will make you a sweet deal on a set of 2.5 coils and spring seats.

Marcus

what kind of deals are you running on adventure series 1 RK for JLU? Also what shocks go well with this kit?

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