Jeep snobbery - RANT

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I've had a few folks ask me why I took the Rubicon script off the hood 1 st week I bought it. I said, Jeep thing. RecentIy I traded my fake vented Rubicon hood with a Sahara owner and got $500 cash also. We are both happy. I bought my JLR to wheel and flat tow. I don't care what 4x a guy drives. It's a car guy thing and I like cars. It's all good, it's your thing, do what you want to do. Angry bird frt end, 24" wheels, whatever.
 

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This is going to ruffle some feathers, but here it goes nonetheless.

I have owned 9 Wranglers over a 12-year period; a mix of Saharas and Rubicons, 2-doors and 4-doors, soft tops and hardtops, manuals and automatics. I have taken them to the beach, to the mountains, to the desert, to work, to the mall and to National Parks. I have driven them in snow, in the rain, over ice, rocks and sand dunes; in July 120 degrees in Death Valley and in -25 degrees in January in Colorado.

Eight of those Wranglers were JKs. My first one was a 2008 Sahara I bought used: it was a base with a 6-speed manual and a soft top, but I was hooked. At one time I owned two of them side-by-side: one was a 2-door Rubicon for the trails; the other was a 4-door Sahara for long road trips in winter. What I love about Wranglers is that I can pack and go at any time, any time of year, without concern for the terrain or the weather; I just know my Jeep will get me there and back.

My last JK was a top-of-the-line 2018 JKUR Recon. It was the most expensive Wrangler I ever bought but it was a complete disappointment: the assembly quality was terrible; it rattled and squeaked; the body panels were grossly misaligned; the ride was harsh. To make matters worse, my local dealer was a total dickhead with the warranty. Hardly what you would expect from a $52,000 price tag —even after having owned several JKs before. In hindsight, it was a mistake buying that last Rubicon.

When I shopped for a JL I test drove a dozen of them; a mix of Rubicons and Saharas, 2-doors and 4-doors; manual and automatic. I had relocated from California to Washington so I found myself doing less extreme off-roading, but more extreme weather. The availability of Selec-Trac was more appealing than a swaybar disconnect or lockers; and after the harsh ride on that JK Recon, comfort gained importance.

I found a sweet deal on an unsold 2018 Sahara sitting 1,000 miles away. I picked it up almost a year ago: the Selec-Trac is just awesome in the snow; the drive and ride is refined and comfortable; it can tackle the off-road trails around here with ease; the fit-and-finish is excellent, and it’s been totally trouble-free so far. I am tickled happy with it.

However, I find something’s fundamentally changed in the Jeep community with the advent of JL. Perhaps the steep new prices make JLs more “precious.” Or JL is attracting a greater proportion of first-time Jeep buyers who don’t know the Wrangler “code” yet. Or FCA has gone a bit overboard with all the “Jeep imagery” it likes to show off and turned Wrangler into a a bit of a snob vehicle. Whatever the reason, I find it is now common to be looked down upon for not driving the “right” type of Wrangler. I now have to justify at every turn why I drive a Sahara. I get it that half the time fellow forum members don’t even realize it, but Sahara owners regularly get accused of being poor drivers, bad off-roaders, mall crawlers, even poseurs, all because we drive a Sahara. Ironically, half the time we get lectured by Rubicon owners who never even take their Jeeps off-road. I try not to be over sensitive to it, but it is a bit weird.

Do Sport owners get this too?

One of the nice things of being part of the Jeep community was the feeling of close camaraderie, no matter what Wrangler you drove. I never felt I had to justify to anyone that I drove a Sahara or a 2-door. A Wrangler was a Wrangler and that was that.

Feel free to reply, agree, disagree, joke, flame, share your hypothesis, but please let’s keep it civil.
Those giving you a hard time for a Sahara are usually plain arrogant who probably think that Dana is some Girl's name. Bet you many of them don't even know when to put a Rubicon in 4LO or electronically disconnect a sway bar; let alone take it off road. You are a good fella and I have been following your posts for a while. Take it from me: not all of us Rubicon owners are jerks. The ones who are jerks are usually buying their Rubi's from Mommy and Daddy's checkbook and do not know the meaning of hard work. The ones who worked their asses off to buy a Rubicon know the struggles of hard work and will never give anybody a hard time about any vehicle; let alone a Sahara. And I feel proud that I belong to the latter group of Rubicon owners rather than the former.
 

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We have seen some numbers over the years and the break down is roughly like this:

Sport/S: 45%
Sahara: 35%
Rubicon: 20%

That's for 4-door.
This motivated me to go look up the current 2021 stock listed on the Jeep website.

Within 250 miles of me, there are 1,783 Wranglers.

Breakdown by model, most to least common:

Rubicon: 551
Sport S: 447
Sahara: 258
Sport: 135
Willys: 112
Sahara Altitude: 77
80th Anniversary: 71
High Altitude: 64
Altitude: 43
Willys Sport: 17
Islander: 8

Few more interesting stats:

3.6: 815
2.0: 769
Diesel: 199

4 door: 1626
2 door: 157

Auto: 1694
Manual: 89

Granted that's just stuff that's sitting on the lot / in transit and doesn't reflect what is actually sold and doesn't include special orders. But gives you a pretty good idea of where things stand.
 

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This is going to ruffle some feathers, but here it goes nonetheless.

I have owned 9 Wranglers over a 12-year period; a mix of Saharas and Rubicons, 2-doors and 4-doors, soft tops and hardtops, manuals and automatics. I have taken them to the beach, to the mountains, to the desert, to work, to the mall and to National Parks. I have driven them in snow, in the rain, over ice, rocks and sand dunes; in July 120 degrees in Death Valley and in -25 degrees in January in Colorado.

Eight of those Wranglers were JKs. My first one was a 2008 Sahara I bought used: it was a base with a 6-speed manual and a soft top, but I was hooked. At one time I owned two of them side-by-side: one was a 2-door Rubicon for the trails; the other was a 4-door Sahara for long road trips in winter. What I love about Wranglers is that I can pack and go at any time, any time of year, without concern for the terrain or the weather; I just know my Jeep will get me there and back.

My last JK was a top-of-the-line 2018 JKUR Recon. It was the most expensive Wrangler I ever bought but it was a complete disappointment: the assembly quality was terrible; it rattled and squeaked; the body panels were grossly misaligned; the ride was harsh. To make matters worse, my local dealer was a total dickhead with the warranty. Hardly what you would expect from a $52,000 price tag —even after having owned several JKs before. In hindsight, it was a mistake buying that last Rubicon.

When I shopped for a JL I test drove a dozen of them; a mix of Rubicons and Saharas, 2-doors and 4-doors; manual and automatic. I had relocated from California to Washington so I found myself doing less extreme off-roading, but more extreme weather. The availability of Selec-Trac was more appealing than a swaybar disconnect or lockers; and after the harsh ride on that JK Recon, comfort gained importance.

I found a sweet deal on an unsold 2018 Sahara sitting 1,000 miles away. I picked it up almost a year ago: the Selec-Trac is just awesome in the snow; the drive and ride is refined and comfortable; it can tackle the off-road trails around here with ease; the fit-and-finish is excellent, and it’s been totally trouble-free so far. I am tickled happy with it.

However, I find something’s fundamentally changed in the Jeep community with the advent of JL. Perhaps the steep new prices make JLs more “precious.” Or JL is attracting a greater proportion of first-time Jeep buyers who don’t know the Wrangler “code” yet. Or FCA has gone a bit overboard with all the “Jeep imagery” it likes to show off and turned Wrangler into a a bit of a snob vehicle. Whatever the reason, I find it is now common to be looked down upon for not driving the “right” type of Wrangler. I now have to justify at every turn why I drive a Sahara. I get it that half the time fellow forum members don’t even realize it, but Sahara owners regularly get accused of being poor drivers, bad off-roaders, mall crawlers, even poseurs, all because we drive a Sahara. Ironically, half the time we get lectured by Rubicon owners who never even take their Jeeps off-road. I try not to be over sensitive to it, but it is a bit weird.

Do Sport owners get this too?

One of the nice things of being part of the Jeep community was the feeling of close camaraderie, no matter what Wrangler you drove. I never felt I had to justify to anyone that I drove a Sahara or a 2-door. A Wrangler was a Wrangler and that was that.

Feel free to reply, agree, disagree, joke, flame, share your hypothesis, but please let’s keep it civil.
I have a couple of thoughts, and I know a lot of people aren't going to like them. But since we've already got ruffled feathers in this thread, here it goes:
  • Personally, I don't see how anyone can own more than one of the same kind of vehicle. I see it all the time on this forum, where people (usually couples) will have more than one JL. I think I understand the Jeep thing, but I also understand the Honda thing, BMW thing, Chevy thing, Vespa thing, and VW thing (yes, even the VW Thing). I guess it's because I'm a car person first, and the Jeep was just an extension of that... I know that their are other driving pleasures and find joy in variety rather than living that Jeep life. I don't mean this as a put-down, but rather just describing my outlook.
  • 9 vehicles in 12 years is a little extreme, but considering 8 were JKs... I just don't know how you justify buying & selling every 1.5 years on average. Did you not get what you wanted the first 7 JKs? Did you keep wrecking them? Large family of drivers? I just don't understand how you justify that kind of turnover.
  • I also don't think that 8 JKs automatically means you have lots of Jeep experience (not saying you do or don't, I don't know you). That's only one generation of one model... and honestly the average demographic changed significantly with the 4-door & the loss of the 4.0. I'm not bashing the 3.8, but I do remember many that would never buy one as a TJ replacement. Many of those TJs were Sports/Saharas, since the Rubicon didn't exist until the end of the TJ... and I don't remember any negativity towards the less expensive models. Maybe you're on to something with the snobbery, but I think it probably really started with the JK.
  • The Jeep code or Jeep wave is a ridiculous concept. JK & JL Wranglers are not rare enough to deserve some sort of secret club that requires waving at every other Wrangler or JT... My other daily driver is actually somewhat rare, and you DO NOT pass another one without acknowledging the other driver (which about once a month). It's not something you're expected to do, it's something that all the owner's do out of mutual respect (probably how the Jeep wave used to be).
Sorry this started to look so negative. I don't have anything against the Sahara, and would have considered one if it was available as a 2-door.

BTW, my hypothesis on why Californians drive such fancy vehicles is because any shithole costs a million bucks, so a $50,000 JL seems like chump change in comparison :LOL:
Isn't your stereotyping of Californians just like how you get stereotyped for buying a Sahara? California is a big place, and not everywhere has million dollar shitholes, just like how not every Sahara driver is going to the mall.
 
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This motivated me to go look up the current 2021 stock listed on the Jeep website.

Within 250 miles of me, there are 1,783 Wranglers.

Breakdown by model, most to least common:

Rubicon: 551
Sport S: 447
Sahara: 258
Sport: 135
Willys: 112
Sahara Altitude: 77
80th Anniversary: 71
High Altitude: 64
Altitude: 43
Willys Sport: 17
Islander: 8

Few more interesting stats:

3.6: 815
2.0: 769
Diesel: 199

4 door: 1626
2 door: 157

Auto: 1694
Manual: 89

Granted that's just stuff that's sitting on the lot / in transit and doesn't reflect what is actually sold and doesn't include special orders. But gives you a pretty good idea of where things stand.
Nice breakdown.

There appears to be big regional differences, too. Some members say that there’s little inventory of JLs near them; others say there’s plenty. That’s going to affect what shows up on the system.
 
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I was looking for a JLUR at first, but the rig is my DD and weekend fun. I wanted leather since it cleans easier than cloth, LED headlamps/tails, and the Alpine audio. I also was in love with the Ocean Blue color. I was having a difficult time finding what I wanted then saw the MOAB sitting at a local dealer. While it doesn't have the lockers, the D44 with the LSD has never failed me on the trail. I added manual sway bar disconnects, so I have more flexibility. Most people have no clue its not a Rubicon, but I have noticed the "snobbery" with newer owners. I actually have had people question my decision to spend more money on a "less equipped" JL as the MOAB was almost $60K. My rig, my choice, my money. I used to wheel a 2005 KJ Renegade, and caught crap for that too LOL.
 

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This is truly fun feed to read! Here I sit with my 20 JLU Sahara ! Grinning from ear to ear! I am a 43 year old male with a JEEP addiction! Lets replay JEEP OWNER history :

* First Jeep .. 1995 YJ ..at 18 yrs old in 1996. I have to hear it from the CJ owners... its not a real jeep.. it has square headlamps ... blah blah ..
TJ rolls in 97 ... I' a freakin hypocrite NOW !! coil springs!! dang sissys!!! coil spring's are for Cadillac's!
* 98 .. bought a TJ .. fell in love with the ride! Had to hear the complaints from YJ and CJ drivers ! dang ... But hey .. I was off roading in comfort! top came down easier .. Man that TJ was built for me !
*07 JK rolls on the scene ... ( Hypocite me comes back out ) What!! A fiat Jeep .. that's some garbage!! OH man ... does your Husband drive!? or its it just for Suburb moms that think Suburban's are played out ... .
2012 .. bought JK ... Man what a wonderful JEEP! this was made just for me! the size.. the comfort! the top drops are a piece of cake!! Man outstanding ride!
I Loved it so much I bought a 16 JKU! Even better!! now I can wheel with my family!!
:: TJ YJ CJ all became haters .. oh yea.. the bank owns your Jeep .. mines paid for... this jeep hate is getting uglier..
2018 .. JLU appears on scene .. Welcome back Hypocrite Jeep owner ME ... Wtf have they done to my beloved JKU !!! Longer nose... a fruit loop 4cyl!! Turbo !!! oh my god ! what is this world coming too!!
Sept 2020 .. wife says honey lets drive a JLU .... good lort ! Best bang for my buck yet! And yes its a Sahara!! Team Open DIff all the way! now the JK , the TJ..yj cj ... they all hate ... I look forward to hating the next one till I buy one!

PS ... Non jeep Owners Opinion's don't count ..it's jealousy season all the time. .

For all you who can relate and enjoy my story .. There is a Jeep for everyone who wants to live that life style.. find what make it you and drive the piss out of it!

List of my OlllllllO
95 YJ 98 TJ 99TJ 02 TJ 05TJ 12 JK 14JKU 20JLU
not ONE of them was a Rubicon .. and not once has that kept me from following one in the woods! I'm having more fun steering the crap out of mine to climb the same hill!
 
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I have a couple of thoughts, and I know a lot of people aren't going to like them. But since we've already got ruffled feathers in this thread, here it goes:
  • Personally, I don't see how anyone can own more than one of the same kind of vehicle. I see it all the time on this forum, where people (usually couples) will have more than one JL. I think I understand the Jeep thing, but I also understand the Honda thing, BMW thing, Chevy thing, Vespa thing, and VW thing (yes, even the VW Thing). I guess it's because I'm a car person first, and the Jeep was just an extension of that... I know that their are other driving pleasures and find joy in variety rather than living that Jeep life. I don't mean this as a put-down, but rather just describing my outlook.
  • 9 vehicles in 12 years is a little extreme, but considering 8 were JKs... I just don't know how you justify buying & selling every 1.5 years on average. Did you not get what you wanted the first 7 JKs? Did you keep wrecking them? Large family of drivers? I just don't understand how you justify that kind of turnover.
  • I also don't think that 8 JKs automatically means you have lots of Jeep experience (not saying you do or don't, I don't know you). That's only one generation of one model... and honestly the average demographic changed significantly with the 4-door & the loss of the 4.0. I'm not bashing the 3.8, but I do remember many that would never buy one as a TJ replacement. Many of those TJs were Sports/Saharas, since the Rubicon didn't exist until the end of the TJ... and I don't remember any negativity towards the less expensive models. Maybe you're on to something with the snobbery, but I think it probably really started with the JK.
  • The Jeep code or Jeep wave is a ridiculous concept. JK & JL Wranglers are not rare enough to deserve some sort of secret club that requires waving at every other Wrangler or JT... My other daily driver is actually somewhat rare, and you DO NOT pass another one without acknowledging the other driver (which about once a month). It's not something you're expected to do, it's something that all the owner's do out of mutual respect (probably how the Jeep wave used to be).
Sorry this started to look so negative. I don't have anything against the Sahara, and would have considered one if it was available as a 2-door.

Isn't your stereotyping of Californians just like how you get stereotyped for buying a Sahara? California is a big place, and not everywhere has million dollar shitholes, just like how not every Sahara driver is going to the mall.
Yes, I was stereotyping.

Consider my feathers ruffled.
 
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This is truly fun feed to read! Here I sit with my 20 JLU Sahara ! Grinning from ear to ear! I am a 43 year old male with a JEEP addiction! Lets replay JEEP OWNER history :

* First Jeep .. 1995 YJ ..at 18 yrs old in 1996. I have to hear it from the CJ owners... its not a real jeep.. it has square headlamps ... blah blah ..
TJ rolls in 97 ... I' a freakin hypocrite NOW !! coil springs!! dang sissys!!! coil spring's are for Cadillac's!
* 98 .. bought a TJ .. fell in love with the ride! Had to hear the complaints from YJ and CJ drivers ! dang ... But hey .. I was off roading in comfort! top came down easier .. Man that TJ was built for me !
*07 JK rolls on the scene ... ( Hypocite me comes back out ) What!! A fiat Jeep .. that's some garbage!! OH man ... does your Husband drive!? or its it just for Suburb moms that think Suburban's are played out ... .
2012 .. bought JK ... Man what a wonderful JEEP! this was made just for me! the size.. the comfort! the top drops are a piece of cake!! Man outstanding ride!
I Loved it so much I bought a 16 JKU! Even better!! now I can wheel with my family!!
:: TJ YJ CJ all became haters .. oh yea.. the bank owns your Jeep .. mines paid for... this jeep hate is getting uglier..
2018 .. JLU appears on scene .. Welcome back Hypocrite Jeep owner ME ... Wtf have they done to my beloved JKU !!! Longer nose... a fruit loop 4cyl!! Turbo !!! oh my god ! what is this world coming too!!
Sept 2020 .. wife says honey lets drive a JLU .... good lort ! Best bang for my buck yet! And yes its a Sahara!! Team Open DIff all the way! now the JK , the TJ..yj cj ... they all hate ... I look forward to hating the next one till I buy one!

PS ... Non jeep Owners Opinion's don't count ..it's jealousy season all the time. .

For all you who can relate and enjoy my story .. There is a Jeep for everyone who wants to live that life style.. find what make it you and drive the piss out of it!

List of my OlllllllO
95 YJ 98 TJ 99TJ 02 TJ 05TJ 12 JK 14JKU 20JLU
not ONE of them was a Rubicon .. and not once has that kept me from following one in the woods! I'm having more fun steering the crap out of mine to climb the same hill!
Excellent reply! Thank you for sharing.

PS - I was selling Jeeps when TJ came out. I didn’t know squat about Wranglers back then. But after driving a few I fell in love with Jeep’s Quadra-Coil suspension: the way it feels on and off road, the way it articulates, soaks up the bumps, etc. It is so simple yet so brilliant at the same time. I had it on my 1995 and 2001 Grand Cherokee as well. When I tried to move on and away from Wranglers more recently, it was the feeling of that suspension that I missed most. It keeps bringing me back.
 
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I was looking for a JLUR at first, but the rig is my DD and weekend fun. I wanted leather since it cleans easier than cloth, LED headlamps/tails, and the Alpine audio. I also was in love with the Ocean Blue color. I was having a difficult time finding what I wanted then saw the MOAB sitting at a local dealer. While it doesn't have the lockers, the D44 with the LSD has never failed me on the trail. I added manual sway bar disconnects, so I have more flexibility. Most people have no clue its not a Rubicon, but I have noticed the "snobbery" with newer owners. I actually have had people question my decision to spend more money on a "less equipped" JL as the MOAB was almost $60K. My rig, my choice, my money. I used to wheel a 2005 KJ Renegade, and caught crap for that too LOL.
Moab would have been the perfect JL for me, but I missed the boat. When I was ready to buy, there were hardly any left.

In fact, my Sahara —Moab is a loaded Sahara after all— has many of the features that were standard on Moab; namely the Selec-Trac, rear LSD and painted hardtop. I am still planning to add the steel bumpers and a winch, eventually.
 

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We have seen some numbers over the years and the break down is roughly like this:

Sport/S: 45%
Sahara: 35%
Rubicon: 20%

That's for 4-door.
That seems to correlate with price differences. More people buy the least expensive model. Which makes sense. Any Jeep is road or trail ready right off the lot. And the least expensive model can do 95% of what the most expensive model can do (my rough estimate, don't quote me on that).
 

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I could have bought any jeep I wanted (cash) and ended up with my yellow JL Sport S. It had what I wanted/needed and I like it.

I'm guessing at some point people might laugh at a guy with a yellow Jeep but I don't care.

Being happy in your own skin is what it's all about in this world for me. :jk:
 

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