Jeep snobbery - RANT

[blnewt]

The JL has all metric fasteners, yet I still carry a decent selection of SAE tools also.

There's a few on the JL, like the oil drain plug, filter cap, and LCA nuts where SAE fits tight and metrics have slop. Seems to be the case w/ most Jeeps I've messed with after CJs, so always best to have all bases covered w/ SAE and metrics in the box
BTW, great post about paying it forward, kudos!

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[Badmofo63]

Not sure I agree... I've had a lot of compliments on my basic, no frills JL Sport from other Jeep owners. I can debate this all day, the Rubi has some nice kit, no question, but at a price. I didn't want to spend $50k on a rough riding, poor fuel economy, small cargo space SUV... I wanted a Jeep... one that will go anywhere I wanted. And that's what I got. For less than 30k (not counting my add-ons )!

To each his/her own... whatever works for you, my brotha! FTW.

 

[Notorious]

My assessment is not flawed

That last sentence sums up my position.

Ted is stating that people will be held accountable for the words they say. Sometimes accountability comes in the form of violence. But it doesn’t have to. It is that negative reinforcement that shapes behavior.

Sean is saying that he doesn’t feel words themselves justify someone being held accountable thru the use of violence.

But you both agree that people need to be held accountable for what they say. Online, forum moderators can discourage unfriendly speech by restricting log in privileges. Sometimes even dropping the ban hammer. Beyond this, what else can be done to hold people accountable?

 

[zakaron]

Being new to the Jeep crowd, I started to pick up on what the OP was originally stating from these online forums. When I first heard the terms "mall crawler" and "pavement princess" I chuckled and thought it was funny. But the more I read the more demeaning I felt those terms get. I no longer laugh as much when coming across them. But the more I see them, the more it does feel like there is an attitude of being condescending. I do understand the descriptive nature behind it, so it is not always meant in a malicious manor.

People do tend to hide behind the anonymous nature of the internet and use less restraint toward others. It is unfortunate, because it only takes a few harsh/negative comments for it to stain an entire group. I would like to think most people on this forum are respectful and decent, but it only takes a few bad comments to ruin a thread - and those are the comments that get remembered the most, sadly. The other thing about written text is that tone & emotion are much harder to convey and interpret. Sarcasm can be very misunderstood, as can the emojis that try to convey various feelings.

I also blame Jeep. They created these tiers of Sport, Sahara, and Rubicon. They should have left the Sahara alone as a trim package, but instead they created this tier structure so that Sahara gets more standard features and upgrades not available to the Sport. They position their flagship Rubicon even further above that of the Sahara. If they just offered a Wrangler with add-on packages, then it would create less of a feeling of hiarchy. I did tons of research before deciding on my factory order, so I knew full well what all the trim levels and packages offered.

I've also noticed media outlets contributing to this as well. For example, when the new Willys came back as a trim package, I saw several online videos refer to it as "the poor man's Rubicon". Statements like that only help solidify in people's minds that the Rubicon is top dog and everything else is inferior.

But what ultimately matters is that Jeep continues to sell Wranglers to whoever is willing to buy them and for whatever purpose they intend to use it for. Otherwise Jeep would stop selling them and we'd have an even worse topic to discuss...

 

[Zandcwhite]

Not sure I agree... I've had a lot of compliments on my basic, no frills JL Sport from other Jeep owners. I can debate this all day, the Rubi has some nice kit, no question, but at a price. I didn't want to spend $50k on a rough riding, poor fuel economy, small cargo space SUV... I wanted a Jeep... one that will go anywhere I wanted. And that's what I got. For less than 30k (not counting my add-ons )!

To each his/her own... whatever works for you, my brotha! FTW.

As a life long jeep enthusiasts I agree completely, for off road use either go basic sport and upgrade what you need or go full rubicon. The middle ground of the Sahara was never a consideration for me. Running boards that can't take a hit, weaker axles, tcase, gearing, no sway bar disconnect or lockers, at a price tag real close to a rubicon. You can buy and build a sport cheaper than a rubicon, but to buy and upgrade a Sahara to rubicon capability will quickly cost more than just starting with the rubicon. Different strokes for different folks, and all wranglers are more capable than most will ever use anyway.

 

[aldo98229]

As a life long jeep enthusiasts I agree completely, for off road use either go basic sport and upgrade what you need or go full rubicon. The middle ground of the Sahara was never a consideration for me. Running boards that can't take a hit, weaker axles, tcase, gearing, no sway bar disconnect or lockers, at a price tag real close to a rubicon. You can buy and build a sport cheaper than a rubicon, but to buy and upgrade a Sahara to rubicon capability will quickly cost more than just starting with the rubicon. Different strokes for different folks, and all wranglers are more capable than most will ever use anyway.

You'd be surprised how tough those running boards are. Trust me; I have tested them.

I knew a nice gentleman, another life-long Jeeper, who made a living restoring old SJs and CJs; he always bought Saharas. His reasoning was: he was going to replace the axles, gears and suspension anyway, but he wanted all the creature comforts that came from the factory. It is simply not economically advantageous to add auto HVAC, remote start, LEDs, steering wheel heater, seat heaters, leather seats, etc., afterwards. Sahara gave him the canvas to upgrade from a well-equipped foundation. Of course he did most of the work himself, which saved him a ton of money and allowed him to start from a pricier Wrangler.

He passed away a couple years ago, unfortunately.

In his mind, buying a Rubicon was an absolute waste of money because he didn't value the quality of the components that FCA used.

But goes to show that there are one million different paths to getting the trail Wrangler you want, and Sahara is not automatically disqualified from any of them.

 

[rallydefault]

I no longer laugh as much when coming across them. But the more I see them, the more it does feel like there is an attitude of being condescending.

Yea, I'm with you on that. It is funny the first dozen times you see people in the community (online or in-person) use the term "mall crawler" or "school bus" or whatever; you get a little chuckle out of it, just good-natured ribbing it seems.

But then you start to see the same people ALWAYS using the same phrases and terms, and it starts to drift away from that good-natured ribbing to leaving more of a bad taste in your mouth. It's like if your friend calls you a stupid name a time or two because you did something dumb or he's obviously just messing with you, but if he calls you that same thing every time you hang out and in increasingly strained situations, it starts to get old and starts to make you think if there isn't something more real and possibly negative behind it.

 

[wibornz]

Then why bring up the ignore feature at all? Disingenuous.

When you bring up human nature, it's okay...but not when I do? Odd dichotomy.

Whatever though. I'm 99% positive (in spite of what you will likely claim) you want to (not that you actually would) 'punch me in the mouth' simply for having the audacity to question your position on the concept/ideal of free speech, even though I haven't been anywhere near as "disrespectful" to you as you have been to me. The contrast is: I bear you ZERO ill will. The response I wrote to Tai (Post #292 if you missed it ) really covered my entire argument in a nutshell.

No sense in rehashing it here.

**EDIT** Fuck it. I'll rehash it here (after a PM lead me to believe maybe I'm wrong and we're not that far off on our positions at all...in which case I apologize for seemingly antagonizing you)....the pertinent part of post #292:



That last sentence sums up my position. Do you agree with that last sentence or disagree?

The ignore feature is not disingenuous. I am pointing out that free speech is a right that you can speak how ever you want and that the government will not for the most part interfere with your speech. That does not mean that you as an individual has free speech everywhere. Go into your place of employment and exercise your free speech in any manner that you choose. Sure you can, that does not mean that the employer will not fire you. Heck you're free to tell the girl in accounting that she has nice boobs. See how that works out for you with your free speech. Working for the Michigan Department of Corrections, our free speech was limited by policy. We were not allowed to speak to the press unless we were given clearance to do so. Currently, if you make a Facebook post that the Department of Corrections does not agree with, you can be disciplined and fired. I was often task to give presentations about the Department to people outside of the Department. My presentations had to be reviewed prior to any presentations. Free speech is not as you represent. There are all kinds of repercussions including a punch in the mouth. Sometimes a punch in the mouth may even be the lesser of punishments.


Human nature, What I said was your general human nature may not be general for everyone, and it is not in the contexts that you attempted to apply it.

I do not want to punch you in the face. You have not posted anything that would rise to that level. After almost 30 working in prisons, you have not made an accurate assessment of my disposition. I am a super laid back low drama guy. I have been called every possible thing in the book, my wife has been called everything in the book. Even had one prisoner try to hire a hitman to kill my family and me. Believe me, you do not have the ability to raise my pulse. This banter back and forth as been funny and entertaining to me. Not something that is worth physically fighting over. I do love to spar so if you want a punch in the face I can give you one. I love putting the gloves on and being in the ring. But punching in the face for anger, nope.

I am blessed and I am a peacemaker. I have stopped stabbing, prison riots, assaults, diffused gang wars, many times over the years. Talked prisoners and employees out of suicide and inspired many to be better than what they were. I have also diffused many employee issues over the years that have saved many jobs, and careers.

On this issue, we are not far apart. You preach that there is free speech. I preach that there is free speech, but it may have a cost to you personally. You just don't seem to understand that. I can't seem to get you to understand that and even though you wrote that people have tried to punch you in mouth.

You'd have guessed wrong. A few have tried. Didn't go as they expected.

***EDIT*** But I do really enjoy that we've moved from actually talking smack to simply being deemed "condescending" or a "know it all" to being a reason for violence (condoned or not).

The discussion is really shaping up to show that most people who are replying have no real concept of free speech or the fact that the ONLY type of speech protected by the 1st Amendment is that which is offensive b/c otherwise, everyone would agree with the speech and there'd be no cause for contention.

So you even wrote on the thread that people have attempted to punch you in the mouth for the way you speak to them. Yet you never question your behavior as to why someone or several have tried to punch you in the mouth, why is that? What were you doing that caused other people to want to punch you in the mouth? Should I guess why people have attempted to punch you in the mouth. I would rather you just let me know so I don't have to guess.

 

[AnnDee4444]

Haven't checked in here since page 15... WTF happened?

When are we all going to agree that the only real Jeep is a 2-door manual Rubicon Recon Mojave Hellcat, and anything less isn't even adequate for a gravel road?

 

[Notorious]

Heck you're free to tell the girl in accounting that she has nice boobs

Reminded me of this. Watch it play out.

 

[Chupacabra]

I just sold my 2003 TJ Sport because it was just too small for 2 dogs and 2 people. I got a 2021 JLU Sport with locking diff, and a few other options. I had no idea the Sport wasn't considered a worthy Jeep? Granted I am not going to do serious rock crawling with it, but I took my TJ on plenty of off-road adventures here in Colorado and I plan to do the same with the JL. Nothing terribly technical but more than you could do in an Outback anyway

 

[TaiMc]

...I also blame Jeep. They created these tiers of Sport, Sahara, and Rubicon. They should have left the Sahara alone as a trim package, but instead they created this tier structure so that Sahara gets more standard features and upgrades not available to the Sport. They position their flagship Rubicon even further above that of the Sahara. If they just offered a Wrangler with add-on packages, then it would create less of a feeling of hiarchy. I did tons of research before deciding on my factory order, so I knew full well what all the trim levels and packages offered.

I've also noticed media outlets contributing to this as well. For example, when the new Willys came back as a trim package, I saw several online videos refer to it as "the poor man's Rubicon"...

I agree 100% of what you've written, but wanted to quote the portion above. I think the Wrangler with add-on packages would create less of a hierarchy...since that's what a lot of people do anyway. We will eventually all add "something" to our Jeeps, it's just a part of the process. It may take us years to do it or months, but eventually, no matter how old or new the Jeep is, people typically will modify it some shape or form.

I also was not aware that they would advertise any Jeep as "the poor man's Rubicon". Was this advertising from Jeep or other individuals online? That's a silly way of characterizing something...but definitely will incite some competitiveness between trims, which will play on many peoples' egos...thereby boosting sales for certain "more desirable trims". I really hope that wasn't a Jeep video you saw...

Very thoughtful post.

 

[zakaron]

I also was not aware that they would advertise any Jeep as "the poor man's Rubicon". Was this advertising from Jeep or other individuals online? That's a silly way of characterizing something...but definitely will incite some competitiveness between trims, which will play on many peoples' egos...thereby boosting sales for certain "more desirable trims". I really hope that wasn't a Jeep video you saw...

Very thoughtful post.

Oh no, definitely not a Jeep sponsored video. Both were independent sources. I understand why they stated the comparison as such, but it only plays into the topic at hand even if it was meant as a harmless statement.

 

[aldo98229]

Haven't checked in here since page 15... WTF happened?

When are we all going to agree that the only real Jeep is a 2-door manual Rubicon Recon Mojave Hellcat, and anything less isn't even adequate for a gravel road?

...and has to be green!

 

[CptFloridaMan]

First time jeep owner and I’ve never felt any snobbery of any sorts when in person speaking to other jeep owners. At work I regularly joke with rubi drivers coming to the hotel “yo sell me your axles” blah blah and talk to anyone that has a jeep basically.

But each time they’ve asked what jeep i’m driving i’m greeted with “that’s all you need to have fun!” when they hear me say base sport.

Online though, that’s where I see all the rubicon stuff. And on instagram it’s hard to not see a rubicon on my feed over a sport.

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