How much????? Insanity

[JandS]

Agreed. It will require many "options", but all in it shouldn't be more than $5-6k over a comparably equipped 2.0t.

At first, perhaps.

At the end of the day, though, the 4XE was designed, engineered, and marketed to help alleviate FCA's need to purchase CAFE credits each year, something that costs FCA several hundred million dollars per year.

If they're not selling enough of them with tons of options baked in, they'll start selling them with fewer options to move more units. The $7500 tax credit on a $60,000 vehicle is about 12% of the purchase price. On a $40,000 vehicle, it is about 18% of the purchase price. That really starts to matter as you move down in price as it turns that $40,000 vehicle into a $32,500 vehicle which is remarkably cheap by today's standards.

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[yngrshr]

At first, perhaps.

At the end of the day, though, the 4XE was designed, engineered, and marketed to help alleviate FCA's need to purchase CAFE credits each year, something that costs FCA several hundred million dollars per year.

If they're not selling enough of them with tons of options baked in, they'll start selling them with fewer options to move more units. The $7500 tax credit on a $60,000 vehicle is about 12% of the purchase price. On a $40,000 vehicle, it is about 18% of the purchase price. That really starts to matter as you move down in price as it turns that $40,000 vehicle into a $32,500 vehicle which is remarkably cheap by today's standards.

Well, that and you have some dealers already saying that they will be offering it with 5-7% off invoice as well.

If I can get 6% off invoice and the $7500 tax credit + the $800 rebate in NJ + the $500 rebate for the charger, it's a no-brainer.

To me, as long as the price of the 4xe is $6,000 more than the base trim price (so a $1,500 net "gain" on the tax credit of $7,500), I am 100% down. I'll qualify for the full credit so I'd love to see the pricing come in around there.

 

[Adam 4248]

Let’s say you get 18 MPG with the 3.6 and drive 12,000 miles per year. That equals 666 gallons of gas per year. At $2/ gal that is $1333 per year fuel cost.

Jeep says the PHEV should get 50 MPG. So same calculation equals $480 in fuel cost.

the difference is $853 per year. So with a $20k premium it will take approximately 23.4 years to break even. Lol

that diesel isn’t looking that bad compared to those numbers.

Not quite.. you will never break even. Remember, the life of the battery is optimistically eight to ten years, then it will needs a few thousand in parts & labor.

 

[Goin2drt]

Let them be $20k over. Folks that really think this is the saving grace for the environment we need your money and donations. Thank you.

 

[Chris Hall]

Let’s say you get 18 MPG with the 3.6 and drive 12,000 miles per year. That equals 666 gallons of gas per year. At $2/ gal that is $1333 per year fuel cost.

Jeep says the PHEV should get 50 MPG. So same calculation equals $480 in fuel cost.

the difference is $853 per year. So with a $20k premium it will take approximately 23.4 years to break even. Lol

that diesel isn’t looking that bad compared to those numbers.

The Wrangler 4XE does not get 50MPG. It is rated at 50MPGe when in electric mode. The E is important. MPGe is an efficiency rating when the vehicle operates in all electric mode. As an example, the Tesla Model 3 is rated at 134 MPGe. The E stand for equivalent. It is a formula that measures the amount of energy in gas compared to the amount of energy in non-liquid fuel sources. A lot of news outlets have incorrectly stated that the 4XE will get 50MPG because they don’t understand what MPGe is. I own a Honda Insight. I have been able to get 50MPG in it but you have to work at it. There’s simply no way to make a 5,000 pound vehicle achieve 50MPG.

Now, here’s where the math gets hard. Since the 4XE is a plug-in hybrid, it can operate for in all electric mode for an estimated 25 miles. That means that for most people, their daily driving can be all electric.

Don’t make fun but I currently drive an electric version of the Smart car. My daily use is around 25 miles on average. Some days more, some days less. It’s rated at 105MPGe. My estimates are that I spend about $25 a month in electric to charge it. Since the Wrangler 4XE is rated at 50MPGe (half the efficiency) it would stand to reason that I will be looking at close to $50 a month in electricity to charge it. That comes out to about $600 a year in electric but keep in mind that my math is sort of worst case scenario.

By the way, I think that $20,000 premium is likely 4 times what the added cost will be. Many industry experts are speculating $4,000 to $5,000. But keep in mind, the 4XE will qualify for the $7,500 federal tax break in the US. So that has to factor in to our math. It might end up being cheaper than a gas model once the federal credit kicks in if your tax situation qualifies you for the full $7,500.

 

[Chris Hall]

I'll wager $100 that the 4XE premium is no more than $10,000.

I have a feeling the $7,500 federal tax credit was on the white board from the beginning. There are elements to the Wrangler 4XE that tell me they have tried to come in under that $7,500. They could have included built in power generation. They could have gone with a higher charge rate than 7.3kWh. They could have put in a bigger battery. They could have gone with a bigger DC to DC converter. There are a lot of little items that tell me they have done everything they can to keep the cost down while still making an excellent Jeep. Once you dig in to all the components and compare them with what they could have done, it seems like they were trying to hit a price point.

Someone in the Wrangler 4XE Fans Group on Facebook recently said something that I'll add as my closing line. "This opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it."

 

[Chris Hall]

Hey, first time poster. I’m looking at getting my first Jeep and am really leaning towards a 4xe. I’ve been talking to my guy about it, and his manager said to expect the premium to be around $2000 to $3000, or at most on par with the Diesel engine. There’s nothing to back it up, but coming from a manager, that gives me some hope that the price won’t be astronomical. But at the same time, $2000 seems weirdly low.

That is a really low estimate. One of the things that has been happening in the EV/PHEV world is the price of batteries is dropping. The industry looks at battery costs from a per kWh perspective. As of 2019, the average cost per kWh of a battery is $156 dollars. The Wrangler 4XE has either a 17 or 17.3 kWh battery (depending on what source you read. I haven't been able to confirm which size it is). So if it's a 17.3kWh battery, we multiply that by $156 and get $2,689.80. So that battery alone should be around $2,700 bucks. That's not including the DC to DC converter, the hybrid transmission or anything else involved.

So while I hope with everything that I am that he's right, I just don't think they could do it that low unless they are willing to take a small hit on each unit to get them on the road.

 

[Chris Hall]

best reply ever

I thought the same thing.

 

[Oilburner]

Don’t make fun but I currently drive an electric version of the Smart car. (haha j/k) My daily use is around 25 miles on average. Some days more, some days less. It’s rated at 105MPGe. My estimates are that I spend about $25 a month in electric to charge it. Since the Wrangler 4XE is rated at 50MPGe (half the efficiency) it would stand to reason that I will be looking at close to $50 a month in electricity to charge it....

So to drive ~750 mi per month (25 x 30 days) you're thinking it will cost $50 in electricity.
If using gasoline, $50 @$2 per gal = 25 gal for 750 miles = 30mpg.
(If driving in 'all electric' mode all the time, it will cost more in hybrid mode)
I am NOT trying to poke holes in electric/hybrid technology, just trying to get past the feel-good hype & understand the actual day-to-day costs of ownership.

 

[Chris Hall]

So to drive ~750 mi per month (25 x 30 days) you're thinking it will cost $50 in electricity.
@$2 per gal = 25 gal for 750 miles = 30mpg.
(If driving in 'all electric' mode all the time, it will cost more in hybrid mode)
I am NOT trying to poke holes in electric/hybrid technology, just trying to get past the feel-good hype & understand the actual day-to-day costs of ownership.

I'm basing that off my 500+ miles a month driving. I'm going to attempt the math but please know that I'm not the best at figuring this stuff out.

First, I'll start with my assumptions. 50 MPGe will result in about 1.4 miles per kWh (50 MPGe = ( 50 ÷ 33.705 ) = 1.483459 mi/kWh) Since the battery is 17.3 kwh, that means it should cost about $2.07 to charge it up from zero to full. Now in a PHEV, the battery will likely never actually reach zero but to make the math easy, we'll say $2.07 a day to charge. That might be high but I want to go worst case scenario. That means you'll be looking at about .08 cents per mile. I'm going to speculate that 750 miles would cost about $62 dollars based on if you are paying around .12 cents per kWh.

This is all perfect world numbers, mind you. That's if you keep it in all electric mode all the time. Trying to figure out total cost gets a little harder. We don't know what the actual MPG of the Wrangler 4XE is in hybrid mode. Some speculate that it will be a little better than a gas Wrangler since it's a hybrid but it's also 800 pounds heavier. So I don't know how to do the math on what it will get in hybrid mode.

 

[Oilburner]

... I'm going to speculate that 750 miles would cost about $62 dollars (based on if you are paying around .12 cents per kWh)

$62 in gasoline / $2 per gal = 31 gallons to drive 750 miles = 24.2 mpg in that scenario. (in all-electric figures only) That may be close to what you might get driving in hybrid mode too - will be interesting to see.
Of course, all this falls under the umbrella of 'Total Purchase Cost' which brings us back on topic -

 

[Demonic]

Funny how if you want a 392 on the forum just because it's cool everyone gets behind that. If you want the 4xe because it's cool we're expected to break out the math books to justify it. For some of us the simple fact that it's more powerful than a 2.0T/3.6 while also being more efficient is enough.

 

[AndyF]

Funny how if you want a 392 on the forum just because it's cool everyone gets behind that. If you want the 4xe because it's cool we're expected to break out the math books to justify it. For some of us the simple fact that it's more powerful than a 2.0T/3.6 while also being more efficient is enough.

Exactly! All these comments about the cost justification are stupid.

 

[robynE]

I ordered my 4xe ONLY because its super fast! Any other benefits, or not, are just an after thought.

BTW, I see Maryland offers up to $3000 state tax credit for a PHEV, and up to $700 to purchase and install fast charging stations in your home, or up to $4000 for businesses.

 

[Chris Hall]

Exactly! All these comments about the cost justification are stupid.

Especially when there is an intrinsic value that isn’t always understood. I’m not

I ordered my 4xe ONLY because its super fast! Any other benefits, or not, are just an after thought.

BTW, I see Maryland offers up to $3000 state tax credit for a PHEV, and up to $700 to purchase and install fast charging stations in your home, or up to $4000 for businesses.

With the $7500 federal, that’s pretty easy math. I’d get a ChargePoint for the house if I was getting that much for one.

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