How much 12v load can it handle? Additional ~50a continuous too much?

[skipdup]

I have a '23 4xe. I don't understand the alternator-less thing at all. I'm trying to get my head around how much 12v load I can put on this thing before it's too much.

Basically, I'd like to charge my trailer lithiums at 30a with 12v trailer plug (using a dc-dc charger on the trailer).
And, charge an additional on-board lithium (with another dc-dc) at 20a.

Is that too much? And, would adding a winch affect any of this?

Thanks,
Skip

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[LAM]

I would worry about just how much charge you are putting into your trailer battery - how big is it? If it stores as much as your 12V battery (~50 amp hours) that could be a big load on your 12V system. Other than that if you are charging while the ignition is running then it should keep your 12V charged. HV charges the 12V and if the HV gets too low ICE will turn on to keep that charged. If you are trying to do this with the ignition off you might drain the 12V to the point nothing works. Maybe try it at home a few times. Same idea for a winch.

The only other caveat might be if the hood is open. Then I think ICE runs (or at least idles) but doesn’t charge the batteries. This is the case when I hook up my air compressor. I usually run mine for 6-8 minutes but that is not enough to deplete the 12V system at least so far. There are a lot of negative comments about Jeep batteries, so I expect mine to go sometime.

 

[BigMaCro]

I have a '23 4xe. I don't understand the alternator-less thing at all. I'm trying to get my head around how much 12v load I can put on this thing before it's too much.

Basically, I'd like to charge my trailer lithiums at 30a with 12v trailer plug (using a dc-dc charger on the trailer).
And, charge an additional on-board lithium (with another dc-dc) at 20a.

Is that too much? And, would adding a winch affect any of this?

Thanks,
Skip

regarding 4xe battery charging:

Like the other JL's, the 4xe has a sensor on the positive battery post that measures voltage and current flowing into and out of the battery. The computers use this data to inform their charge profiles, which means how fast and to what voltage they charge the battery. The actual charging is done by the IDCM (integrated dual charging module), which also charges the high voltage battery. So it has very high charging capacity, well over 100A.

The frustrating thing is that if you monitor the charging, it doesn't always operate the way we might want or expect, but cuts in and out of it's own accord. These charge profiles might be designed to prolong the battery life and for fuel/battery efficiency, not to recharge the battery as quickly as possible.

State of charge and charge rate can be monitored with J-scan, in addition to using the voltage gauge in the instrument panel.

Regarding adding large loads:

The common addition is a winch. The 4xe has no problem with this, in either operating or recharging. Just like any other jeep, the winch will utilize the battery, which will then be recharged over time by the alternator or IDCM.

Another large load is an air compressor. I have installed a EZ-Flate MOAB dual-cylinder compressor in my rear cargo area, which draws up to 90A. I have 1 AWG battery cable running from a 125A MRBF fuse on the battery, through the clutch rod hole on the driver's side of the firewall, to a Blue Sea SafetyHub in the back, to accommodate a 100A fuse for the compressor. This also allows for other loads like lights, fridge, radios etc.

I have considered adding a small battery in the cargo area with dc-dc charger. I'd also like to put a solar panel on my roof platform to keep the 12v system charged up.

You could do something similar, and then also have a connection off the safety hub for the trailer connection, using Anderson connectors, which can be mounted to your bumper.

Long story short, I think it's reasonable to install a system like you propose, particularly if using high quality, configurable, monitorable dc-dc chargers like Victron.

 

[LAM]

regarding 4xe battery charging:

Like the other JL's, the 4xe has a sensor on the positive battery post that measures voltage and current flowing into and out of the battery. The computers use this data to inform their charge profiles, which means how fast and to what voltage they charge the battery. The actual charging is done by the IDCM (integrated dual charging module), which also charges the high voltage battery. So it has very high charging capacity, well over 100A.

The frustrating thing is that if you monitor the charging, it doesn't always operate the way we might want or expect, but cuts in and out of it's own accord. These charge profiles might be designed to prolong the battery life and for fuel/battery efficiency, not to recharge the battery as quickly as possible.

State of charge and charge rate can be monitored with J-scan, in addition to using the voltage gauge in the instrument panel.

Regarding adding large loads:

The common addition is a winch. The 4xe has no problem with this, in either operating or recharging. Just like any other jeep, the winch will utilize the battery, which will then be recharged over time by the alternator or IDCM.

Another large load is an air compressor. I have installed a EZ-Flate MOAB dual-cylinder compressor in my rear cargo area, which draws up to 90A. I have 1 AWG battery cable running from a 125A MRBF fuse on the battery, through the clutch rod hole on the driver's side of the firewall, to a Blue Sea SafetyHub in the back, to accommodate a 100A fuse for the compressor. This also allows for other loads like lights, fridge, radios etc.

I have considered adding a small battery in the cargo area with dc-dc charger. I'd also like to put a solar panel on my roof platform to keep the 12v system charged up.

You could do something similar, and then also have a connection off the safety hub for the trailer connection, using Anderson connectors, which can be mounted to your bumper.

Long story short, I think it's reasonable to install a system like you propose, particularly if using high quality, configurable, monitorable dc-dc chargers like Victron.

Much more technical than my response, but that’s why i'm here….
I use my compressor with the hood open.

 

[skipdup]

@LAM 600Ah on trailer. But, this wouldn't be used to go from 0-100% -- just reducing the need for the generator. And, only while driving.

Same for the additional on-board battery. I just realized my unused LiTime mini 100Ah fits perfectly in the rear cubby. And also would only be charged while driving.

@BigMaCro That's awesome. Thank you very much for taking the time to write that up!!!
I have (I think) the Thor version of yourcompressor. Never considered putting in the rear cubby (didn't realize they could go on their side). I'll be checking dimensions with my LiPo to see if there's room.

Why did you raise the cover on your cubby?

 

[Pape]

The 4xe use motor generator to generator power for the EV battery. the ev battery voltage being higher than 12v they use dc to dc to convert for the standard 12v system. So the questions are:

• Is the dc to dc chargeur can handle 600w (12x50) of additional charging?
• What impact this will have on the EV battery ?

Personally I think you are all good except can the actual trailers wiring support the extra amp ?

 

[BigMaCro]

I have (I think) the Thor version of yourcompressor. Never considered putting in the rear cubby (didn't realize they could go on their side). I'll be checking dimensions with my LiPo to see if there's room.

Why did you raise the cover on your cubby?

I've used the compressor like that for over a year without problems, but I have wondered about crancase oiling while on the side. But there's plenty of similar designs that do lay down, and EZflate now sells one in a suitcase that looks like it might be the perfect fit. I was able to rotate the rubber isolated baseplate from the bottom to the side, and I added a pressure switch.

The raised floor was not specifically for this project - it's part of the rear-seat delete platform I did. it's a bonus that it adds 3" of space in the cargo area, perfect for all the additional do-dads. I've now got my remote CB and GMRS radios there as well, in addition to the KC Hilites chase bar controller and auxbeam 8-gang switchbox.

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/4xe-rear-platform-build-s.73600/page-2#post-2027081

 

[BigMaCro]

The 4xe use motor generator to generator power for the EV battery.

The IDCM is an inverter/charger that provides 12V charging for the vehicle.

The MGUs are high-voltage AC only.

 

[Pape]

The IDCM is an inverter/charger that provides 12V charging for the vehicle.

The MGUs are high-voltage AC only.

still Motor generator -> HV battery -> DC to DC -> 12v system

 

[Pape]

One caveat you need to look at: validate if the HV battery get disconnected from the 12v at some point. Would be sad to drain the 12v dry because the HV battery is disconnected from the 12v.
Especially when the jeep is off.

 

[LAM]

I am guessing the hood interlock disconnects them. Also if the 12V is discharged enough not to power the electrical system then the DC-DC might not work.

 

[BigMaCro]

MGU 1 --\
         > 400V 3 phase AC Power Inverter -- 400V DC Battery -- IDCM -- PDC (Fuse N8 225A) -- 12V Battery
MGU 2 --/                                                        |
                                                                 |
EVSE 120 or 240V AC-----------------------------------------------

The engine doesn't need to be running to charge the battery. The IDCM will still charge the 12V battery when operating in EV mode, or parked in "Run". When off and actively charging, the 12V will also be charged as necessary. When plugged in, but not actively charging, the modules are supposed to occasionally wake up to check both batteries SOC and charge them if necessary, but some have reported dead 12V batteries when left for a long time, even when plugged into EVSE.

If using smart DC-DC chargers, these will only operate when the source battery voltage is above a threshold that can usually be configured. Because the Jeep's 12V voltage may vary, on some charge controllers (like Victron) you can also wire an "ignition run" signal to activate the charger. This could be helpful in OP's situation. I'd suggest wiring this to the trailer marker lights, if the DC-DC Charger is in the trailer, or cigarette lighter if in the Jeep's cargo area. This is the "H" pin on Victron Orion XS.

 

[Pape]

MGU 1 --\
         > 400V 3 phase AC Power Inverter -- 400V DC Battery -- IDCM -- PDC (Fuse N8 225A) -- 12V Battery
MGU 2 --/                                                        |
                                                                 |
EVSE 120 or 240V AC-----------------------------------------------

The engine doesn't need to be running to charge the battery. The IDCM will still charge the 12V battery when operating in EV mode, or parked in "Run". When off and actively charging, the 12V will also be charged as necessary. When plugged in, but not actively charging, the modules are supposed to occasionally wake up to check both batteries SOC and charge them if necessary, but some have reported dead 12V batteries when left for a long time, even when plugged into EVSE.

If using smart DC-DC chargers, these will only operate when the source battery voltage is above a threshold that can usually be configured. Because the Jeep's 12V voltage may vary, on some charge controllers (like Victron) you can also wire an "ignition run" signal to activate the charger. This could be helpful in OP's situation. I'd suggest wiring this to the trailer marker lights, if the DC-DC Charger is in the trailer, or cigarette lighter if in the Jeep's cargo area. This is the "H" pin on Victron Orion XS.

We say the same thing, only the detail level that change.

 

[skipdup]

@BigMaCro Good info. I plan on using Victron. I'm using several of their things on my RV and like them.

I hadn't considered how to trigger the charger on the trailer. I just checked, and the 12V is always hot, so I can't use that... I may just add a switch on the trailer...

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