Death Wobble - Help! (Solved)

[zouch]

i've lived that "myth".

i ran without a Steering Stabilizer for many hundreds (maybe thousands) of miles with no issues.
but i had made sure that everything else in the front end was solid (nothing "almost new"), and that i had over 6º of negative Caster.
even with 115lb 37" tires/wheels, adding a SS only added the option to adjust the 'feel' of the resistance of my steering.

if everything is correct, you absolutely do not need a Steering Stabilizer.

This is a horrible myth that gets repeated to no end on this forum. A good quality stabilizer is absolutely required.

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[dragoneggs]

i've lived that "myth".

i ran without a Steering Stabilizer for many hundreds (maybe thousands) of miles with no issues.
but i had made sure that everything else in the front end was solid (nothing "almost new"), and that i had over 6º of negative Caster.
even with 115lb 37" tires/wheels, adding a SS only added the option to adjust the 'feel' of the resistance of my steering.

if everything is correct, you absolutely do not need a Steering Stabilizer.

No argument with your single data point. Hundreds, maybe thousands of miles? Me too.

I was 'new' and had a different result. But again, I'm just a single data point. If the solution was simple and the variables were few... we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Have you ever experienced DW? If you do with your set up, would you be still be singing the same tune? I hope you don't experience it. Not fun. And solving the issue isn't always simple as your caster.

 

[zouch]

not arguing with you; just sharing another perspective to mwilk0122s statement that i responded to. but i'm not the only one who hasn't had a problem when everything was right.
no, i've never had Death Wobble. don't want it; that's why i took the approach i did.

i do believe the root cause is simple (have everything right and tight), but i don't think the variables are few. (Caster is only one of those variables.)

i saw you had some issues after adding multiple variables, and that you didn't after you got the SS system tightened back up; that isn't a case of your SS "causing" DW.
you reported starting with adding a complication to address "wander" before you had DW and then added more variables. ("wander" isn't the sort of thing expected to be corrected by adding a steering stabilizer system.)
i suspect that the root of your problem isn't/wasn't your steering stabilizer problem (just as it usually isn't), but that your SS system is 'managing' it. as long as you're happy with the result, i guess, great for you!

No argument with your single data point. Hundreds, maybe thousands of miles? Me too.

I was 'new' and had a different result. But again, I'm just a single data point. If the solution was simple and the variables were few... we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Have you ever experienced DW? If you do with your set up, would you be still be singing the same tune? I hope you don't experience it. Not fun. And solving the issue isn't always simple as your caster.

 

[kah.mun.rah]

This actually appears to be accurate. I am kind of taken aback... in the past 10 years I've repeatedly been told that steering stabilizer will not and does not fix death wobble and at best they are a band aid.

On my old axle setup, I had a busted steering stabilizer, but my thought was that it is the ball joints. On this new setup I had no steering stabilizer trying to sort my issues out. I just installed the AEV (bilstein) dualsport stabilizer. Immediately the front end felt 100% tighter, I hit every bump that induced death wobble before and I didn't even get so much as bump steer.

I'm not saying it's fixed, because I still should do some more testing, but this is the only thing that was the same on both axles until now. I think @VKSheridan was correct.

Same. With my JK I swear that the stabilizer didn't matter. On my JL however I have had two different stock JLs that the day the stabilizer broke, d.w. started and the day after they were repaired it never came back.

 

[Cindjw]

Solution: It appeared to be the lack of a steering stabilizer. On my old axle it was broken (no oil) and on my new axle I never put it on because I wanted to solve death wobble. I'll report back if the DW happens again, but so far this seems very promising.

So I have tried everything in this post (https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...ble-an-algorithm-to-diagnose-the-issue.62313/). To date

New ball joints
Re-torqued lower control arms (190#)
"New" tie rod (bought it used, curious if the joints are shot).
"New" drag link (same as above)
New tires
Balanced tires
Wheel alignment
New track bar
Checked all bolt holes for wallows
Checked wheel bearings
Steering box torqued


Literally an entirely new front end. I've never ran synergy stuff before and since I got mine used I am curious to know if these joints are totally shot (my gut says yes, but I don't know how much movement there should be). I tried messaging synergy a few days ago and they "some movement" but haven't gotten back if this is normal (Jeep Invasion I think). Any input? It's the only other thing I can think is causing this death wobble.

Definitely the steering stabilizer. I had the death wobble. Took it to the dealer and they replaced mine. They also told me that it must be primed before installation. In addition, Fiat Chrysler Automobiles (VCA) is giving refunds to anyone that has Death Wobble and has their steering stabilizer replaced. Go online for refund instructions. It's called the V41 Recall. Or email them at [email protected].

 

[Nvdardx28]

Because the combined weight of their wheels doesn’t exceed the tolerance of the steer systems. Not many cars run a solid front axle connected to tires 12.5” wide and north of 33” tall.

Peace

Also, other vehicles do not even come close to the amount of travel and articulation these JLs have.

 

[AnnDee4444]

Also, other vehicles do not even come close to the amount of travel and articulation these JLs have.

While I don't disagree with this statement by itself, I fail to see how the travel/articulation = death wobble.

 

[Nvdardx28]

While I don't disagree with this statement by itself, I fail to see how the travel/articulation = death wobble.

The angles of the geometry of the steering linkage etc. that it has to support in order to flex and articulate, reduces the amount of stiffness and overall strength that you could put into the design. It's a tradeoff in the end. If you want maximum travel, articulation you'll have to compromise somewhere. In these death wobble cases, most of the mechanical components are being worn out early because they are failing to hold there tight tolerances. If you remove those requirements, the design is much simpler and stronger.

 

[AnnDee4444]

The angles of the geometry of the steering linkage etc. that it has to support in order to flex and articulate, reduces the amount of stiffness and overall strength that you could put into the design. It's a tradeoff in the end. If you want maximum travel, articulation you'll have to compromise somewhere. In these death wobble cases, most of the mechanical components are being worn out early because they are failing to hold there tight tolerances. If you remove those requirements, the design is much simpler and stronger.

But it is solvable. If anything, the compromise was building to a cost.

 

[Nvdardx28]

But it is solvable. If anything, the compromise was building to a cost.

It's absolutely solvable, but like you pointed out at a cost and probably a very large cost. Higher flex and articulation is making what should be a simple part more complicated and expensive. We could go back to leaf springs in the front like the old YJs, terrible flex, super stiff ride but... no death wobble with no steering stabilizer too.

 

[AnnDee4444]

I'd like to come up with a comprehensive list of all the potential deathwobble cause. I've noticed three possible categories:

• Something is loose - and can be tightened back into adjustment
• something is worn out - needs to be replaced due to wear
• something is deflecting - parts deforming from their intended shape

#	Issue	Description
1.	loose nut/bolt(s)	eventually leading to ovalized (worn) mounting points, could be a symptom of deathwobble caused by something else
2.	loose steering box	can be fixed by adjusting
3.	worn steering box	excessive play in sector shaft (no known incidents)
4.	worn ball joints	caused from the plastic lining deflecting
5.	worn steering damper	this is a symptom of deathwobble caused by something else
6.	worn tires	typically a symptom rather than a cause
6.	worn track bar bushings	from too much flex and/or symptom of other causes
7.	deflecting track bar bushings	this is different than a worn out bushing
8.	deflecting track bar frame-side mount	bad welds and/or design by Jeep

Did I miss anything?

 

[Zandcwhite]

I'd like to come up with a comprehensive list of all the potential deathwobble cause. I've noticed three possible categories:

• Something is loose - and can be tightened back into adjustment
• something is worn out - needs to be replaced due to wear
• something is deflecting - parts deforming from their intended shape

#	Issue	Description
1.	loose nut/bolt(s)	eventually leading to ovalized (worn) mounting points, could be a symptom of deathwobble caused by something else
2.	loose steering box	can be fixed by adjusting
3.	worn steering box	excessive play in sector shaft
4.	worn ball joints	caused from the plastic lining deflecting
5.	worn steering damper	this is a symptom of deathwobble caused by something else
6.	worn tires	typically a symptom rather than a cause
6.	worn track bar bushings	from too much flex and/or symptom of other causes
7.	deflecting track bar bushings	this is different than a worn out bushing
8.	deflecting track bar frame-side mount	bad welds and/or design by Jeep

Did I miss anything?

I think badly out of balance tires, like ripping a lug off an MT wheeling, can be a cause. As part of the answer to #1, the track bar bolts can be replaced with 9/16"×3" grade 8 which fit tighter in the bushings and mounting holes than the 14mm stock bolts but are not so big as to require drilling. This thread mashes me want to pull the steering stabilizer off the jeep and go drive it as I've done everything I could think of to eliminate any kind of shimmy in the steering wheel hitting bumps. Drag link is the yeti no drill flipped version, track bar bolts are 9/16", and we are running control arm drop brackets up front. Even on metalcloak 3.5" springs it feels more planted and tighter than it did stock.

 

[AnnDee4444]

I think badly out of balance tires, like ripping a lug off an MT wheeling, can be a cause.

Absolutely, but it's probably more likely a symptom than the cause in most cases.

This thread mashes me want to pull the steering stabilizer off the jeep and go drive it as I've done everything I could think of to eliminate any kind of shimmy in the steering wheel hitting bumps.

I've also considered ditching my steering damper, as I think my wobble has been cured with only the Metalcloak track bar brace (stock tires, stock-ish JLR height, Mopar LCA, Metalcloak Durosrping bump stops... stock everything else).

 

[cheeseits52]

Just to follow up, yes the steering stabilizer did 100% solve this problem. I've put a few hundred kilometers on the Jeep since and it has not come back.

Is it a band aid solution that is stopping DW from occurring and there is still a bad part? No clue. Can I say for certain it is "fixed" (meaning not occurring anymore), yes.

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