SOLVED: Pre-Death Wobble

[Roky]

Okay, thanks. That doesn't look too bad. Parts on order. I'm curious how bad the bushings are going to turn out to be.

Not sure, it usually varies depending on how the rig is used…… post up pics when you get into it….. and if you have any questions shoot me a PM ……this is the tool you need as @word302 mentioned ……

https://www.northridge4x4.com/part/...0wb9Mvjq-zM09KzVTw4u4cvV6fVPcF5xoCOjQQAvD_BwE

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[omnitonic]

Not sure, it usually varies depending on how the rig is used…… post up pics when you get into it….. and if you have any questions shoot me a PM ……this is the tool you need as @word302 mentioned ……

https://www.northridge4x4.com/part/...0wb9Mvjq-zM09KzVTw4u4cvV6fVPcF5xoCOjQQAvD_BwE

I got somebody to shake the steering wheel, so I could get a better look It's much worse than I thought. How did I never notice this? How did I never grab that part and yank on it while I was poking around? Too much faith in how beefy RK stuff is. This was a good lesson.

I'll update you when I get into it, and if I have questions. I have the tool on order too.

 

[Beachcomber72]

I have a '21 JLU Wilys with a TeraFlex 2.5" lift kit, TeraFlex 9550 shocks, and Rock Krawler track bars fore and aft, running 315/70R17 Mickey Thompson Baja MTZ P3 tires, 50k miles on the Jeep and 40k miles on the wheels and tires.

I rotated my tires a couple days ago, and all of a sudden, I'm getting significant side to side oscillation of the steering wheel whenever I hit a bump. It's not death wobble, but if you cranked this phenomenon up just a little bit more, I can see how it could become death wobble.

When I had each front wheel up, I shook it top to bottom and side to side, and everything was very tight.

I dunno. I'm not sure where to go from here.

Are you running the factory wheels? If not are you using hubcentric rings? Did you torque the wheels to spec with correct lug nut for what ever type of wheel you use?

 

[omnitonic]

Are you running the factory wheels? If not are you using hubcentric rings? Did you torque the wheels to spec with correct lug nut for what ever type of wheel you use?

Those actually are good thoughts. It's easy to get a wheel a little off center when you're dealing with non-factory stuff, and any chance you have of balancing anything is out the window.

I admit, I never thought about how the wheels mount. The same way the factory wheels did, with the same lug nuts. I would have noticed this kind of gross balance problem before now, and I am very meticulous about my torque. I'm one of the only people I truly trust to put a set of wheels on the right way, and I hate it when I have to let shops touch my nuts. I'm very protective of my nuts.

I have pretty high confidence in all of this. I have an old F350 that someone put some Bubba wheels on. He used hub-piloted wheels on a stud-piloted hub. The center hole was too small, so he roughed it out with a cutting torch. The factory lug nuts had to be installed with the cones out, and that truck was terrifying to drive over 55 mph. It was originally designed to be used with coined wheels, which proved to be impossible to obtain. I ended up getting new 16" wheels (instead of 16.5") with the correct center bore to mate my non-existent hub centering bosses. I tried to retrofit hub centering bosses, but that didn't work out. I couldn't find any hubs with centering bosses that would work with that axle. I finally solved it by turning some centering sleeves that were a kiss fit inside the wheel holes and over the threads.

When we test drove that truck for the first time, my son tore into some parking lot, slammed on the parking brake, jumped out, and shouted, "Dad! You've got to drive this truck!" Night and day difference. It was one of the most obviously beneficial and useful improvements I ever made to a vehicle. Sorry to go on about it. Memory lane tripping.

 

[GrayWolf.Overland]

Likely an out of balance tire that didn't show up it's ugly face when mounted in rear axle. Rear is forgiving

 

[omnitonic]

Not sure, it usually varies depending on how the rig is used…… post up pics when you get into it….. and if you have any questions

On the bright side, the death wobble is 100% cured. That made an immediate and dramatic difference.

On the darker side, it's a little confusing why I had this problem. If I had taken this joint apart to clean and inspect it, I probably would have just put it back together. I was expecting more of a smoking gun. It doesn't look worn or damaged enough to even bother dragging my phone out there to take pictures.

It damn sure fixed the problem though, and it wasn't too hard to do. I was getting kind of frantic when I had no clue what the problem was, but now that I know, it seems like a reasonable price to pay for all the fun I've had thrashing the shit out of that poor track bar. Those bushings worked hard, and they died a glorious death.

I also feel better in general about death wobble. This is my first Jeep (if that wasn't obvious), and I've been freaked out about death wobble. I think it's fair to assume I am sufficiently in tune with my Jeep that I should be able to get in front of trouble like that before it gets nasty. I did this time, and now I am better-educated than I was.

Also, I'm not sorry I decided to change the tires. Tires weren't the problem here, but my tires suck. The tread lugs look like a topographic map, on top of the wear related to the track bar being wonky, my toe being out, and probably rotating them half as often as I should have.

I think the compound isn't consistent, and I'm seeing these weird variations, because some chunks of the tread are harder wearing than others. I've read other reports of these tires going to hell at about 50% tread. It's time to try something else.

Thanks for snapping me out of the fog and cluing me in on the real problem, Roky. You da man! (Also, I'm looking to do the ball joints in May. They are probably wearing too, you're right, but I think I can make it that long. May is my next vacation. Always better to do the big shit on vacation.)

 

[azjl#3]

The worst part is that I have a good job. I went through a divorce, and then inflation ramped up. There isn't much I can do but sell stuff, but I don't want to sell my stuff. I'm not there yet.

It really pains me that I can't just fix this problem the right way. If it needs ball joints, I should change the axle seals and axles (they're both leaking a little) while I'm in there, and so on, and so forth. Plus the clutch. I don't know if I could even sell the Jeep while it's under recall.

I haven't done anything yet, due to working all the hours. I'm hoping it's just tires. My next move is going to be swapping the fronts side to side. If that doesn't help, I'm going to try different tires up front until I find the best combination. If that solves the problem, I'll probably just stop rotating the tires, and replace the set when I burn up the rears. I already got 38k and change out of a set of mud tires, which ain't bad.

Feel for you, keep plugging, good news, jeep is probably one of the cheapest vehicles to work on as long as you don't go mod crazy. Simple engine, driveline, etc

 

[omnitonic]

Feel for you, keep plugging, good news, jeep is probably one of the cheapest vehicles to work on as long as you don't go mod crazy. Simple engine, driveline, etc

I paid a guy to do the re-gear, but I've done everything else myself. I installed two different lifts on it, and was amazed how simple it was. With a little care, you can totally drop the axle far enough to dump the springs without breaking any of the tender bits. Most of the engine compartment problems can be solved by ripping the fenders off. I figured that out when I changed the front fenders.

So yeah, it's definitely easier to work on than a lot of stuff. I could probably do everything myself if I had enough time to work on it. I'm not sorry I paid a guy who had done thousands of pumpkins to do my gears though. That would have been hard to get done on my own. Not impossible, but hard.

 

[Roky]

On the bright side, the death wobble is 100% cured. That made an immediate and dramatic difference.

On the darker side, it's a little confusing why I had this problem. If I had taken this joint apart to clean and inspect it, I probably would have just put it back together. I was expecting more of a smoking gun. It doesn't look worn or damaged enough to even bother dragging my phone out there to take pictures.

It damn sure fixed the problem though, and it wasn't too hard to do. I was getting kind of frantic when I had no clue what the problem was, but now that I know, it seems like a reasonable price to pay for all the fun I've had thrashing the shit out of that poor track bar. Those bushings worked hard, and they died a glorious death.

I also feel better in general about death wobble. This is my first Jeep (if that wasn't obvious), and I've been freaked out about death wobble. I think it's fair to assume I am sufficiently in tune with my Jeep that I should be able to get in front of trouble like that before it gets nasty. I did this time, and now I am better-educated than I was.

Also, I'm not sorry I decided to change the tires. Tires weren't the problem here, but my tires suck. The tread lugs look like a topographic map, on top of the wear related to the track bar being wonky, my toe being out, and probably rotating them half as often as I should have.

I think the compound isn't consistent, and I'm seeing these weird variations, because some chunks of the tread are harder wearing than others. I've read other reports of these tires going to hell at about 50% tread. It's time to try something else.

Thanks for snapping me out of the fog and cluing me in on the real problem, Roky. You da man! (Also, I'm looking to do the ball joints in May. They are probably wearing too, you're right, but I think I can make it that long. May is my next vacation. Always better to do the big shit on vacation.)

?…….good job brother !!

 

[word302]

On the bright side, the death wobble is 100% cured. That made an immediate and dramatic difference.

On the darker side, it's a little confusing why I had this problem. If I had taken this joint apart to clean and inspect it, I probably would have just put it back together. I was expecting more of a smoking gun. It doesn't look worn or damaged enough to even bother dragging my phone out there to take pictures.

It damn sure fixed the problem though, and it wasn't too hard to do. I was getting kind of frantic when I had no clue what the problem was, but now that I know, it seems like a reasonable price to pay for all the fun I've had thrashing the shit out of that poor track bar. Those bushings worked hard, and they died a glorious death.

I also feel better in general about death wobble. This is my first Jeep (if that wasn't obvious), and I've been freaked out about death wobble. I think it's fair to assume I am sufficiently in tune with my Jeep that I should be able to get in front of trouble like that before it gets nasty. I did this time, and now I am better-educated than I was.

Also, I'm not sorry I decided to change the tires. Tires weren't the problem here, but my tires suck. The tread lugs look like a topographic map, on top of the wear related to the track bar being wonky, my toe being out, and probably rotating them half as often as I should have.

I think the compound isn't consistent, and I'm seeing these weird variations, because some chunks of the tread are harder wearing than others. I've read other reports of these tires going to hell at about 50% tread. It's time to try something else.

Thanks for snapping me out of the fog and cluing me in on the real problem, Roky. You da man! (Also, I'm looking to do the ball joints in May. They are probably wearing too, you're right, but I think I can make it that long. May is my next vacation. Always better to do the big shit on vacation.)

I’m not sure if you mentioned it, but has you checked the torque on the frame-side track bar bolt while you were chasing this down? While I’m sure the new bushings are an improvement, if there’s ANY movement in the track bar frame-side connection it can cause all kinds of problems.

 

[omnitonic]

I’m not sure if you mentioned it, but has you checked the torque on the frame-side track bar bolt while you were chasing this down? While I’m sure the new bushings are an improvement, if there’s ANY movement in the track bar frame-side connection it can cause all kinds of problems.

I did check the torque. Bolt movement wasn't the issue.

 

[word302]

I did check the torque. Bolt movement wasn't the issue.

My guess is you’ve got some compounding issues if that joint didn’t feel loose before you rebuilt it. Ball joints are a very likely culprit.

 

[omnitonic]

My guess is you’ve got some compounding issues if that joint didn’t feel loose before you rebuilt it. Ball joints are a very likely culprit.

The joint felt extremely loose before I rebuilt it. I'm really surprised the bushings weren't more obviously blown out. Obvious or not, they were blown out.

After the rebuild, I repeated the steering wheel shake test. "I said shake it. Are you shaking it?" I could barely see any movement at all. On the first test, that joint was shaking like Shakira.

My ball joints are the next item slated for eventual replacement, but I'm fine for now.

Especially if I ever manage to get my inner parking brake return springs to hook up. The only thing stopping me from calling a dealership to tow and fix this POS is the knowledge that I would be without wheels for two or three or six months, due to how overbooked the dealership shop is.

 

[omnitonic]

I'm coming back to follow up and say that I felt kind of like a choad for replacing my Mickey Thompson mud tires, all the way until I took my first ride on my new Falken Wildpeaks.

Wow!

I'm 51 years old, and I've put a lot of new tires on a lot of vehicles. I don't think I ever saw this big of an improvement.

I haven't wheeled them yet, but I'm pretty sure they can do everything I need them to do. I've seen people in stock F150s on Kenda Klevers do all the same stuff. This ain't Moab.

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