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Bronco vs Jeep Wrangler mega thread

With the Bronco launch, what team are you in?

  • I will stay with team Jeep

    Votes: 742 61.7%
  • I may jump to Team Ford

    Votes: 239 19.9%
  • I am staying out of this one for now. (in Eric Cartman’s voice): Screw you guys, I am going home.

    Votes: 113 9.4%
  • Is “both” an option because I am loaded and can afford both?

    Votes: 109 9.1%

  • Total voters
    1,203

viper88

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Well the Gladiator sold out its launch edition in 24 hours too and it is a more niche vehicle than the Bronco.

we have also seen other brands like Land Rover do the off-road schools. While it is a cool thing and i like it, i don’t think it drives sales.

as far as what $100 refundable reservations mean 9 months before production launch i don’t think we can really say.

i do think they have done a great job on the vehicle from what we have seen. and Ford has shown they can deliver on these types of iconic vehicles with the f-150, Raptor, and Mustang.But those data points don’t mean much to me.
Very valid points.
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kre62

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https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...s-about-taking-on-the-wrangler.26215/page-188

It started on this page because a gal said around 90% instead of saying a majority. Then you and @kre62 rode than number to death. Her intent was clarified but the fact that her intent was true (most Wranglers do stay on the pavement) meant very little to you or the other guy.

Really? Says the guy who has a rock buggy for a profile pic. Arguing a arbitrary number of how many Wrangler owners go off road.

It's still a fact that most Wrangler owners don't go off road. And it's also a fact, and more important, that more Wrangler owners DO go off road than owners of other new vehicles. So let's stop jerking ourselves off about being right that an arbitrary number is not accurate, and try to grow our community of off road enthusiasts, whether they are in a Jeep, Ford, whatever.

Its not a fact at all that "most" wranglers dont go off road. That hasnt been proven at all. We've found a few studies where the number is over 50%. People definitely want to believe this is true, and they regurgitate it into each others mouths often, but there is no basis whatsoever for this claim.
 

rockadile

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Its not a fact at all that "most" wranglers dont go off road. That hasnt been proven at all. We've found a few studies where the number is over 50%. People definitely want to believe this is true, and they regurgitate it into each others mouths often, but there is no basis whatsoever for this claim.
Can it be an accepted belief?
 

jeepingib

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I thought we dispensed with this....

It came down to a bunch of queers (myself included) who couldn't agree on what constituted a "trail" or "offroading". But the SEMA numbers I posted pretty much said a fairly high percentage (65%ish IIRC) of Jeeps see dirt.
Yeah...and I'm a dirter who owns a Lotus. Same boat here, man.


BTW, this isn't really directed at you specifically...just the fucked up mindset.

Is it just that certain people's version of "offroading" is superior to other people's?...cause that's what this shit boils down to; a dick measuring contest where everyone one here that doesn't run buggy only trails or compete in KOH is a bitch. That's ultimately what it comes down to if you follow this bullshit "I'm a REAL offroader" to its logical conclusion. It's fucking stupid.

How 'bout we just let people enjoy nature as they see fit at whatever level they are comfortable with and quit trying to lump them into categories, FFS?
I found it...I was way off on percentages though....

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...g-on-the-wrangler.26215/page-195#post-1061290

Post # 2916

From that post:

"Seems like the 10% number is just flat wrong....based on the SEMA study provided earlier:....

62% of registered TJs and JKs are "accessorized" according to SEMA's report (Pg 7). Of those, 55% offroad their vehicles (pg 32 of the report)....so according to that, roughly 34% of those vehicles are offroaded.

https://www.sema.org/market-research/pdf/33057_SEMA_Wrangler_Report.pdf "
You stated incorrect facts, then stated that anyone who disagreed with you is essentially stupid. Then proposed and opinion of why people didn't agree with you.

You stated several times in the original thread, and then restated here that you feel the only reason that I'm arguing this, is some twisted way of boasting. Not even remotely true. But when you keep trying to play off your opinion as the reason I pushed this in the first place, it gets under my skin a little. The original post made by @hatwood was an arbitrary number and the general statement was that most Wrangler owners don't off road. Which your facts supported. And an opinion that I have shared. That's it. Then you took it down all kinds of rabbit holes to try to support your narrative. I disagreed that dirt roads count as off road. Not because I'm trying to be an elitist and say that if they don't go on rocks that it doesn't count. But that those are classified as roads, duh. And I still stand by my opinion that the SEMA report is probably skewed towards those who do use their Jeeps off road, because the people that they surveyed were buying parts to accessorize their Jeeps.
 

Dkretden

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Its not a fact at all that "most" wranglers dont go off road. That hasnt been proven at all. We've found a few studies where the number is over 50%. People definitely want to believe this is true, and they regurgitate it into each others mouths often, but there is no basis whatsoever for this claim.
Can you show me a fact that supports your conclusion or are you making a claim with no basis?

BTW, the SEMA study actually suggests that 54%-ish of “accessorizers“ (read how they define that.... it is everything from floor mats to decals, to chemicals to wash the vehicle with, to rails, to 40” tires ——A whole lot of Jeepers).Take there jeep off road. But not all accessorize.—- only 64% do. So, The total “off-roaders” is roughly one-third.

unfortunately, the SEMA study does not specifically say that it is statistically valid or that the sample was appropriate. So, it may not be. And despite including nearly every single type of ‘accessory”, the study would not include someone who buys a Jeep, buys nothing else for it .... not even a sticker or floor mats, and takes the Jeep off-road totally and completely stock....... so, there is some level of undercount here. My opinion is that undercount is fairly small but I don’t know.

now, about you claiming that “most” is NOT a fact.... that means that you must HAVE FACTS THAT YOU CAN SHARE that show “most” to be be wrong, RIGHT? Or are you just “reguritating”?

please post the statistically valid study which outlines the sampling methodology and margin of error that supports your claim.
 
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jeepingib

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So you do want to do this here.

Got it. :LOL:

See the IIRC?...Do you not know what that means? Let me elucidate you. It means "If I Recall Correctly". I didn't. And unless you've never mis-remembered a stat, you should probably shut the fuck up (I'd write STFU, but if you're not familiar with IIRC, maybe you don't know that one either).

My comments weren't directed to you here at all. I absolutely don't recall directing them at you in the other thread either (probably b/c it didn't matter to me that much), but it apparently it upset you greatly if you're dragging it up months later.

No, my comments were about the 10% number bandied about so often by the Jeep community which are clearly incorrect.... I guess you discount statistics and 1 in 10 versus 1 in 3 isn't a substantial difference to an intellect of your caliber.

I have ZERO problem with you sharing an opinion....and I have every right to hold and espouse a different one.

As for your obvious offense to what I said months ago....sorry, not sorry. If I was wrong then, I would have said so...b/c that's just who I am. Seems like this is YOUR issue with thin skin, not mine.

Oh and it's a little disingenuous to say you want to build the community by being inclusive....then say that forestry roads like "Black Bear Pass" (for example) "don't count".
So when you get the numbers wrong 66% vs 34% it's just bad recollection. But when anyone else gets the numbers wrong, because they are using an arbitrary number to arrive at a point of discussion, that is unforgivable and they must be ridiculed and told, that they are merely trying to support an opinion that they feel superior to other people. Does that make any sense? Because someone said that most Wrangler owners don't off-road their Wranglers, that they are trying to perpetuate some sick twisted "dick measuring" contest? Do you see how ridiculously out of touch your statement was? Nobody has argued that the 10% number was accurate. But 10% is a lot closer to 34% than 66% is don't you think?
 

kre62

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So when you get the numbers wrong 66% vs 34% it's just bad recollection. But when anyone else gets the numbers wrong, because they are using an arbitrary number to arrive at a point of discussion, that is unforgivable and they must be ridiculed and told, that they are merely trying to support an opinion that they feel superior to other people. Does that make any sense? Because someone said that most Wrangler owners don't off-road their Wranglers, that they are trying to perpetuate some sick twisted "dick measuring" contest? Do you see how ridiculously out of touch your statement was? Nobody has argued that the 10% number was accurate. But 10% is a lot closer to 34% than 66% is don't you think?

To me the point is we don't know the number. Could be 60% could be 35%, we dont' know. So stop claiming, with such certainty, that most don't go off road. We have some good evidence that many do go off road. I've seen stats that 85% of Rubicon owners go off road. Maybe one day someone will do a super thorough comprehensive study that gets us a number. Until then, the statement "Everyone knows the majority (or a vert small number_ of wrangler owners go off road" is patently false.
 

jeepingib

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To me the point is we don't know the number. Could be 60% could be 35%, we dont' know. So stop claiming, with such certainty, that most don't go off road. We have some good evidence that many do go off road. I've seen stats that 85% of Rubicon owners go off road. Maybe one day someone will do a super thorough comprehensive study that gets us a number. Until then, the statement "Everyone knows the majority (or a vert small number_ of wrangler owners go off road" is patently false.
More Wrangler owners go off road than any other new vehicle. I've said that from the beginning. And I've also said that the exact number is arbitrary and inconsequential. But when so many Wranglers are sold in places that have zero access to legal places to go off road it's a rather silly argument to say that with certainty and no numbers to back it up, that you can not say that most Wranglers don't go off road.
 

ThirtyOne

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More Wrangler owners go off road than any other new vehicle. I've said that from the beginning. And I've also said that the exact number is arbitrary and inconsequential. But when so many Wranglers are sold in places that have zero access to legal places to go off road it's a rather silly argument to say that with certainty and no numbers to back it up, that you can not say that most Wranglers don't go off road.
I think at this point y'all are at "violent agreement". Wranglers are an off-road vehicle by the fact they are taken off-road by any other vehicle. The exact numbers don't matter and what constitutes off-road doesn't matter. We should embrace anyone that comes under the tent and not divide them up and judge them. I think we can all get behind that.

10% is a number that seems to imply that it is the rare exception. Even it is just a swag it seems to send the wrong message. Even 20-30% becomes significant enough to drive the community. I hope the Bronco achieves numbers like that.
 

jeepingib

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No, if you'll look at the numbers that start out that report, what's the lead number? Oh, that's right, 62%. It's not that difficult to see where I may have flubbed the number. I even admitted I was "way off on the numbers"....hell, you JUST quoted me.

So, was it a simple mistake or was there some sinister motive? Considering I'M THE ONE who corrected it....I'll let the audience draw its own conclusion since you seem a bit biased, lol. I guess it's not good enough to start off with an "I'm not sure" via a IIRC, then follow it with a link, the actual numbers, as well as an acknowledgement that I was wrong. What else would satiate your obvious anger over the exchange from months ago? Get a fucking life.
I couldn't care less about the numbers. I've said that from the beginning. I was merely pointing out your hypocrisy in how you vehemently argued when someone else got the numbers wrong.

Look, other than a bunch of "queers" (again, myself included) getting their panties in a wad about that conversation...I don't really remember singling you out or ridiculing anyone (I admittedly haven't gone back to re-read it either, as I just don't care that much). You obviously are still very upset by the whole thing....from OVER 4 MONTHS AGO!!! LOL. Jesus...have I been living in your head rent free since then? Maybe put that in perspective.

No, I don't think it was "out of touch". We disagree that there aren't people on this very forum that think they are more "hardcore" than others here b/c of their particular brand of offroading. It's called a difference of opinion.
The only reason I brought it back up after ignoring it for several days of you fumbling around here, is because of your statement that the only people who have the opinion that most Wrangler owners don't go off road, are people who are trying to prove something. Facts are facts, that's all. It's a condescending attitude to attribute a made up opinion as to why people don't agree with you.

BULLSHIT....people have been saying "less than 10%" for decades.
Nobody buy you has even used this arbitrary 10% number that seems to set you off so badly, other than when I used it to quote you.

Tell you what....why don't we let this simmer for another 4 months and you can drag it up then and we'll see if you're still this upset? See you in say, December? ;)
Sure thing. Because the dumb part is that we are generally in agreement. I'm just tired of you forcing an opinion and agenda on people who disagree with your opinion.

I still say that most people who own a Wrangler won't take it off road. Not because I want to feel superior about what I do, or don't do. Just recognizing a fact. And I say that more Wrangler owners go off road than any other new vehicle. Those two statements are not in opposition to each other.
 

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jeepingib

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I'll continue to do as I please. JFYI. As much as you'd like that to be different; it isn't.
Couldn't care less. If you keep projecting your opinion that the only people who disagree with you are caught in some sick dick measuring contest to say we are more hardcore, then I'll keep pointing out the hypocrisy of a guy saying that with a rock buggy for an avatar.
 

jeepingib

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Ah...so that's what this is really about. Otherwise, why keep bringing up the buggies?

Wow....you're so paper thin, you're transparent.

You, OTOH (on the other hand since acronyms don't seem to be your strong suit, lol)...clearly took offense b/c it hit too close to home. Otherwise, why would you give a shit? Oh, that's right, "couldn't care less".....4+ months later, lol.

Oh, and for the record, the chick that I took issue with in the other thread is the one that threw the 10% number out there. So much for your claim that it was me.
I did say, in this thread. You are the one who keeps bringing it up, IN THIS THREAD. And IIRC I never said that I didn't understand your original acronym. I only ignored it, because you had ignored the fact that this was never about hard numbers. (You are still going off on the numbers) But please continue. You are quite entertaining to my drunk ass.
 

jeepingib

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You did say what?

Just so I'm sure I understand the grave you're digging yourself.
Nobody buy you has even used this arbitrary 10% number that seems to set you off so badly, other than when I used it to quote you.
Sean K said:
Oh, and for the record, the chick that I took issue with in the other thread is the one that threw the 10% number out there. So much for your claim that it was me.
This is what I was referring to. Nobody in this thread has mentioned it but you. And you keep beating that drum that nobody here is contesting. You are arguing a point that I agree with. Yes, 10% is not accurate. Never argued that it was.
 

Bryce

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If I had a goid experience with the buy back, I'd probably get another Wrangler. Vehickes are complex systems nowadays and sometimes a bad one comes out.

If it was a big mess, drawn out and maybe lawyers involved in the process, I'd probably hold out For a new Bronco. Fortunately, I have extra vehicles I could drive until I could get a hold of one, otherwise I would get a beater until then.
 

jeepingib

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Wow, maybe put down the drink?

Yes, I'm talking about the number b/c it came from the other thread....the same one where the relevant percentage numbers came from as well. Hard to discuss something without context. Besides...you're the one keeping this going. I was done this morning....and you interjected and I specifically asked if you wanted to rehash this here....clearly you do.

No, what you're arguing is that my PoV doesn't match yours. Which is fine.

What I'm not sure I get is why you can't just agree to disagree. I say some assholes think they're better than other people b/c they are more hardcore and how many Jeeps "offroad" plays into that sterotype. You claim that doesn't happen. We disagree. That simple.
I'm not even saying that it doesn't happen. Just that not everyone who has the opinion, backed by at least your own research, that the majority of Wrangler owners don't go off road, is not holding that opinion, again backed by research, because of some weird superiority complex. And that nobody here in this current thread and conversation has even stated a number as low as 10% but you. That is the context. But please continue to argue moot points. I'm bored and this is making me laugh.
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