Bronco vs Jeep Wrangler mega thread

[rallydefault]

The study used current registrations of vehicles as well. In addition....if you looked at the original thread where I posted the information, the argument was that "less than 10% of Jeeps actually go offroad"....

I think I understand your point a bit clearer. I think 10% does sound a little low, but I do admit that I think 35%ish sounds a bit high, but I don't know. I don't know what the "curren registrations" means, to be honest, because the report just says it's sampled from people who bought accessories from SEMA.

think that you should look at the definition of “accessorize” in the SEMA report. They include just about everything from floor mats to stickers and even chemicals for cleaning/washing/waxing.

Oh, for sure, I agree that accessories are way more than lifting or bumpers and big stuff like that. I just think there are more people out there who will never use a company like SEMA than will, was all I'm saying.

So that I'm not misunderstood: I'm with you guys on the idea that WAY more people do some form of off-roading than we may think, including just going down dirt paths and stuff like that.

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[twisty]

Anybody remember the FJ40 was going to kill the Wrangler? Yeah they sold a lot at first, Just like Ford will but, it'll be a flash in the pan. Remember the "New Thunderbird" ? That didn't last long. Ford is trying to get themselves out of a financial bind. Essentially they've taken a Flex, made it FWD drive, Changed the front and cut the top off.. I've owned 1 ford in my life never again...and it was a full size Bronco, Bent drive shaft from the factory, Replaced Transmission tail-shaft and transfer case in less than 2K miles, rear pinion bearing and seals at less than 5K, Power window failure at 5k sold at 5003 miles or so. Never again.

lol, I had the same luck with my 89 ford bronco. It was CRAP, but I have to say I loved that thing. It was a big honker for trail work but the perfect size for travel and adventure. With all the trouble I had with it I swore I would never buy another ford product but here I am with a f150 with ZERO issues.

Buying a vehicle is a crap shoot in reliability, even toyota's. Most times you get a solid rig, but there are times you get one where you just want to blow up the factory that made them. lol

 

[twisty]

And how do you account for that attitude on a Jeep forum where people knock other owners of the same make/model for not being "hardcore" enough? That explanation just doesn't wash.

I agree with the rest though.

I see only a bit of that, and probably some/most of that is in jest. I will good naturely bash a mall crawler and hope they are smart enough to get it. Heck I havent wheeled that much lately either an my rig is set up pretty well now...although I'm thinking of putting in an atlas now. lol

I also think some bashing might be to incent some to wheel to be a part of something they experience and know is great and cant imagine anyone not doing it.

I think we all know most 4wd dont get used for their intended purpose....especially now. When jeep came up with the genius of a 4 door model it opened up a whole new market to people who see the vehicle as more practical yet have bragging rights to be something they will never use it for. I am totally ok with that...cause what do I care?

 

[twisty]

The FJ40 came out far before the Wrangler name placard ever was a thing....like 30+ years before. I think you mean FJCruiser. And no one seriously thought that POS was going to compete head to head with the Wrangler.

That said, I think the Bronco will be around for a long time and b/c the top/doors come off...it's more likely to steal some of Jeep's sales. But, we'll have to wait & see.

Curious why you think the first bronco failed? Why will this one be different?

I think it will at first steal jeep sales, but also ford sales, also toyota sales.

IF their raptor version comes out with SFA they will have a sale to me. LOL.

 

[Dkretden]

@rallydefault

just to be clear on my end, I was told years ago (but with no data to back it up) that something like: “significantly less than half.... something like 25%..... of Jeeps ever drive off-road.....”...... that has stuck with me for a number of years. The SEMA study seems to be in line with this at 1/3.

And, what it says to me is that 2/3rd of Jeep owners never go off-road. That has all sorts of marketing implications for Jeeps and explains,I think, why Jeep is adding a lot of techno stuff to Jeeps, etc. it also explains full time 4WD. Most jeep owners will use the Jeeps on city streets. They like the fantasy of off-roading and toughness but will never use it. I also suggest that most of these folks (and even many of the “Accessorizes” who do go offroad) wouldn’t know a solid axle if it hit them in the head. I count myself as one of them. Until I joined this board I had no idea that a Jeep had a solid axle or that other vehicles didn’t. Whoop-tee-do, a darn Suburu would probably work for what I want to do but I liked the ethos of the Jeep more.

I bought a Jeep because I liked the way it looked and I liked the interior and I liked the ecosystem of stuff to bolt on it. I did not buy a 4Runner TRD because I hated the interior. Notice, there is zero in my purchasing decision about “IFS vs SFA”.

IMO, folks who bash the Bronco because of its “lack of capabilities” are spot on —- when they look through their own lens. But they are missing the bigger picture: a few trees do off-road and absolutely need Jeep capabilities but the forest doesn’t. The Bronco will sell very well to the forest.

Hell, I know 3 people who have already placed orders for broncos — they don’t off-road and don’t intend to. They just like it’s “looks and want something rugged” (direct quote)......

 

[rallydefault]

@Dkretden
Yep, I totally agree, and we sound fairly similar. I do live in a HUGE off-roading area, so most people's jeeps around here are muddy (muddin', as we say lol), but I have really only taken mine on beaches during vacations so far. And yea, when I bought my jeep, I came from a background of fairly little understanding, though I did have a bit more perhaps than your average joe just because of the off-road culture around here (my daughter laughed yesterday as we watched a cop car chasing a quad up the street outside our house).

I'd say the 25%-33% range is probably fairly accurate, especially if we include all types of "off roading," which we should.

 

[viper88]

Another interesting article on the Bronco. Without a doubt the Wrangler is the intended target. It looks promising for Ford. The first edition of Broncos sold out in less than 24 hours. Time will tell how much of a threat the Bronco really is.

https://robbreport.com/motors/cars/the-2021-ford-bronco-first-edition-has-sold-out-2935660/

The Bronco supposedly has a 18 month wait list already.
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/2021-ford-bronco-reservation-waitlist-long/

Free off-road courses for Broncos also.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/new...th-a-free-off-road-driving-school/ar-BB16odBS

 

[ThirtyOne]

Another interesting article on the Bronco. Without a doubt the Wrangler is the intended target. It looks promising for Ford. The first edition of Broncos sold out in less than 24 hours. Time will tell how much of a threat the Bronco really is.

https://robbreport.com/motors/cars/the-2021-ford-bronco-first-edition-has-sold-out-2935660/

The Bronco supposedly has a 18 month wait list already.
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/2021-ford-bronco-reservation-waitlist-long/

Free off-road courses for Broncos also.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/new...th-a-free-off-road-driving-school/ar-BB16odBS

Well the Gladiator sold out its launch edition in 24 hours too and it is a more niche vehicle than the Bronco.

we have also seen other brands like Land Rover do the off-road schools. While it is a cool thing and i like it, i don’t think it drives sales.

as far as what $100 refundable reservations mean 9 months before production launch i don’t think we can really say.

i do think they have done a great job on the vehicle from what we have seen. and Ford has shown they can deliver on these types of iconic vehicles with the f-150, Raptor, and Mustang.But those data points don’t mean much to me.

 

[ThirtyOne]

I full agree with you.

i purchased a Jeep because I wanted to drive 7 miles down some forest road or something and then park, get out and hike a 6 mile loop. my old legs and my desires won’t let me hike 7 miles in plus 7 miles out plus 6..... I have no desire to hike 20 miles. If the Jeep can take me to a trailhead that I otherwise would not go to...... that’s a win.

is it ”rock crawling”? Nope. Is it rock kicking? Yep.

i kidded in some thread that Jeep should create a “Trails for Pusses” badge program. But, I actually mean it. Jeep should create a program for folks who could define what they want to do — stuff like ‘backwoods trail heads”, ‘fish remote waters”, “backwoods hunting”, ......... what ever the right terms are. Heck, you could even have a few that were tied to science: “find unique geologic formations”, “find earthquake faults”....... stuff like that would be amazing for kids/families and even fun for kids like me.....

then, folks could use the app like now and, if they drive down that dirt road up to that backwoods trail or geologic formation, they can get a badge sent to them.... the app might become very popular and give jeep amazing marketing insights into customer activities at a minimal cost.

The whole “badge of honor” program is about extending the brand (And learning about customers). Well, get an 8-year old boy in a Jeep and take him to a unique geologic formation. Have all the info about the formation in the app. Then, send dad or mom a badge and that young man will be telling all his friends about it....... In a decade or two, Jeep just secured a new customer.

The Jeep Badge of Honor program has a lot of trails that would meet your definition. Many of them frankly could be run in 2wd.

 

[4xFUN]

The announcement of Ford Bronco's return as a hard-core off roader along with it's massive marketing campaign will no doubt add awarenesses and bring new buyers to this market segment...Jeep just might benefit from this with a few added Wrangler sales of their own...
Plus we all know competition improves the brand

 

[DigitalDiem]

The FJ40 came out far before the Wrangler name placard ever was a thing....like 30+ years before. I think you mean FJCruiser. And no one seriously thought that POS was going to compete head to head with the Wrangler.

That said, I think the Bronco will be around for a long time and b/c the top/doors come off...it's more likely to steal some of Jeep's sales. But, we'll have to wait & see.

yeah I meant FJ cruiser

 

[DigitalDiem]

The FJ40 came out far before the Wrangler name placard ever was a thing....like 30+ years before. I think you mean FJCruiser. And no one seriously thought that POS was going to compete head to head with the Wrangler.

That said, I think the Bronco will be around for a long time and b/c the top/doors come off...it's more likely to steal some of Jeep's sales. But, we'll have to wait & see.

Yeah like I said I meant FJ Cruiser and I remember all kinds of talk about Jeep was doomed and so on . Look at the photos below. You can't deny the Flex - Bronco Connection. Beef up the suspension remove the top make it 4wd change interior and Bob's you're uncle you have a new Bronco.

Oh they'll sell a ton but I will never be a first year model buyer....model year change is one thing but new out of the gate nope...particularly a Ford.

 

[rallydefault]

Beef up the suspension remove the top make it 4wd change interior and Bob's you're uncle you have a new Bronco.

Boom, there you have it, definitely what happened.

 

[jeepingib]

Not really...a third is quite a bit more statistically than a quarter. And we've both said that number is likely higher than that....it just wasn't captured in that survey.

Funny...the discussion that spawned the need to get the industry research was similar....just more skewed towards and even lower percentage. Whatever...people have a need to feel set apart and special.

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...s-about-taking-on-the-wrangler.26215/page-188

It started on this page because a gal said around 90% instead of saying a majority. Then you and @kre62 rode than number to death. Her intent was clarified but the fact that her intent was true (most Wranglers do stay on the pavement) meant very little to you or the other guy.

Whatever...people have a need to feel set apart and special.

Really? Says the guy who has a rock buggy for a profile pic. Arguing a arbitrary number of how many Wrangler owners go off road.

It's still a fact that most Wrangler owners don't go off road. And it's also a fact, and more important, that more Wrangler owners DO go off road than owners of other new vehicles. So let's stop jerking ourselves off about being right that an arbitrary number is not accurate, and try to grow our community of off road enthusiasts, whether they are in a Jeep, Ford, whatever.

 

[ThirtyOne]

Yeah like I said I meant FJ Cruiser and I remember all kinds of talk about Jeep was doomed and so on . Look at the photos below. You can't deny the Flex - Bronco Connection. Beef up the suspension remove the top make it 4wd change interior and Bob's you're uncle you have a new Bronco.

Oh they'll sell a ton but I will never be a first year model buyer....model year change is one thing but new out of the gate nope...particularly a Ford.

I think Ford really screwed themselves with this Bronco Sport branding. People can't tell the difference and it will get confusing.

It is based on the EcoSport (even more horrible name), and isn't even close to a Flex in dimensions. And it is not the "true" Bronco anyhow.

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