Bronco vs Jeep Wrangler mega thread

[twisty]

Must be pretty accurate; that calculated frame height is dead nuts for what I measured on our JLUR with 37s (at street pressure of ~32 PSI) and no lift.

Doesnt sound accurate to me then. The chart shows it with a mopar lift??

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[twisty]

Yeah, the suspension is GREAT! It is a little stiffer than a Rubi, but handles great. I took it out on a very rough country road and it really keeps its composure. If I had one and set it up as an overlander, I could live with the Mojave. It still has the rear locker. But I really would miss the swaybar disconnect. But you could set it up to manually disconnect.

Just get a anti-rock. Thinking about ditching my electric on in favor of it. No buttons to push and no future problems if they arise.

 

[Headbarcode]

Yeah...and as expected, it's lean on details about the RTI and if they actually compared a Jeep on the same ramp with the same vehicle placement and loading, going the same direction to arrive at those conclusions. Hell, it doesn't even tell you which "Wrangler"...the one with the the electronic disconnect sway bar or the one without....or did they just not unlock the electronic sway bar if so equipped?

Sounds like the shocks are just valved for a 70/30 compression/rebound (or something similar)....no real wizardry there; they just sound like they tuned them for what they expected the Bronco to do offroad predominantly....which sounds like high speed.

It's hard to believe the claim of 17% more suspension travel, after watching the hydraulic sway bar disconnect part of the reveal mini movie. They paused on a dirt mound with the drivers front in the air, and there wasn't much wheel drop when they hit the disconnect. In fact, the wheel still didn't fully contact the ground afterwards.

I'm not at all nitpicking, just got curious enough to pull up that article to see how they worded it after you asked if they specified wheel travel, shock travel, etc.

Litebrite is on the first edition list, so I'm looking forward to seeing them put the Bronco through the same wringer as they did with their JLUR.

 

[BCalvin]

I heard next years model you will be able to put the IFS in the trunk.

 

[WXman]

TRAVEL. 17% more travel. That's going to be roughly 2 inches more travel than a Rubicon.

However, that doesn't automatically translate to articulation. Rubicon may still articulate better.

Finally, keep in mind that Bronco has a different wheelbase than Wrangler, so RTI scores have to be taken with a grain of salt.

To quote Mark Twain, "Lies, damned lies, and statistics."

Ford can make the numbers tell whatever story they want. At the end of the day they've still got an overgrown MINI Cooper Countryman on 35 inch tires and it's a joke.

 

[guarnibl]

TRAVEL. 17% more travel. That's going to be roughly 2 inches more travel than a Rubicon.

However, that doesn't automatically translate to articulation. Rubicon may still articulate better.

Finally, keep in mind that Bronco has a different wheelbase than Wrangler, so RTI scores have to be taken with a grain of salt.

To quote Mark Twain, "Lies, damned lies, and statistics."

Ford can make the numbers tell whatever story they want. At the end of the day they've still got an overgrown MINI Cooper Countryman on 35 inch tires and it's a joke.

Shit man, a mini cooper on 35's sounds fun with the right engine. I'd happily daily a safari 911.

 

[zakaron]

While this doesn’t specifically relate to the Bronco, here is some interesting food for thought on dealing with suspension travel & stability on an IFS setup. Back in the early/mid ‘90s when Chevy was building the 9C1 Caprice for police fleet use, they commissioned Bilstein to build shocks with a higher compression rate then rebound. They felt this gave better control over large bumps or when coming down from being airborne. They were also progressively damped, so they gave greater resistance with larger bumps, but more comfort on normal roads. This all did have the effect as feeling more floaty. I wonder where the Bronco will strike its compromise?

 

[JeepSmash]

With white table cloths and fine FORD china.

on its self folding table. “Hey ford. Make lunch”.

 

[aldo98229]

That’d be 17% more articulation than a... Ford Mustang.

 

[entropy]

Very complicated indeed. I sort of understand how the weight distribution of the vehicle changes and affects suspension. I noticed as you on the videos of the mythical Bronco how when they turned the disconnect on, the articulation did not look as good, and that was a commercial.... The way I look at it, sure, the tire will drop due to the fact that spring already has a stored compression force.

Take a barbell with equal weights on each side and lay it on the ground, put your hand under the right weight and lift the left side while leaving the right side on the ground and you will feel more pressure on your hand than before you lifted the other side. This is because as you lift one side of the barbell, the weight of the barbell + weights is transferred to the right. Do a different experiment, lift the barbell with weights on straight (deadlift) then try lifting one side first and while one side is up try lifting the other side, it is more difficult to lift the second side than the first one because of the same principle.

So with a solid axle, when you put one tire on a rock it is a similar problem isn't it? the weight of the axle + the weight supported by the axle shifts to the side on the ground, this force pushing that side down will undeniably solidify that tire with the ground and will also make it more difficult to compress that spring, thus improving articulation. This effect, simply can't be replicated by an IFS.

I know it is more complicated than just a barbell with weights because you have the Jeeps body, the chassis, etc... and suspension travel is obviously not determined by the axle only.

But I think this is why a Jeep flexing looks so solid, as there is a force pushing down on the side that dropped that will make the vehicle more stable and I believe increase traction. This is not simple axle drop, there dynamics that an IFS simply can't replicate from definition.

So yeah. I think Ford is bluffing. And for low speed off-roading it is gonna crap itself against the Wrangler. I am just curious and can't wait to see more of it though, because they have been claiming what nobody else has before. And if they actually manage to prove us all wrong, that would be exciting for the future of Jeeps.

 

[InvertedLogic]

Travel is not the same as articulation. Travel is just how much the wheel can move up or down in the wheel well driven by suspension. I could totally see it having more available up/down travel thanks to long travel shocks, soft springs/helper springs, and high misalignment CA joints. However, that says nothing about articulation and how the left side interacts with the right.

 

[entropy]

Travel is not the same as articulation. Travel is just how much the wheel can move up or down in the wheel well driven by suspension. I could totally see it having more available up/down travel thanks to long travel shocks, soft springs/helper springs, and high misalignment CA joints. However, that says nothing about articulation and how the left side interacts with the right.

Exactly. This is good I am learning lots from this post. Wish the Bronco had SFA. I would really like to see another SFA vehicle in the U.S. that's "affordable".

 

[SargeChuck]

For me Jeep really should take a page from Porsche's play book. It has been mentioned in here before about any model being able to upgrade but I think that Jeep needs to allow more customizations. Dash color, stitching types and color, seat belt color, decal colors, floor liner types. I think that Jeep made a great decision to add the high altitude. I would take a similar approach and push "luxury" options throughout their lineup. Get people to spend extra on looks. I think the best 4x4 option is generally a lost cause for the mainstream. I had a first gen 4runner and remember being on forums with many different vehicles. The truth is if you are building a vehicle that needs an axle swap, you can do this on an ifs 2wd vehicle. Don't get me wrong I am super happy to have a SFA and don't plan on going large enough to surpass my dana 30, but from a standpoint of keeping people buying Jeep I think that they need to focus on getting the exact vehicle someone wants from the factory. Get someone to cross buy a Jeep and a Bronco to decide on a jeep because they can get a sport with base wheels, small axles, halogen lights, but then show off to their friends with $2000 leather seats and a factory upgraded headunit from the factory (because we all know most of these buyers won't be buying aftermarket and doing it themselves).

 

[aldo98229]

For me Jeep really should take a page from Porsche's play book. It has been mentioned in here before about any model being able to upgrade but I think that Jeep needs to allow more customizations. Dash color, stitching types and color, seat belt color, decal colors, floor liner types. I think that Jeep made a great decision to add the high altitude. I would take a similar approach and push "luxury" options throughout their lineup. Get people to spend extra on looks. I think the best 4x4 option is generally a lost cause for the mainstream. I had a first gen 4runner and remember being on forums with many different vehicles. The truth is if you are building a vehicle that needs an axle swap, you can do this on an ifs 2wd vehicle. Don't get me wrong I am super happy to have a SFA and don't plan on going large enough to surpass my dana 30, but from a standpoint of keeping people buying Jeep I think that they need to focus on getting the exact vehicle someone wants from the factory. Get someone to cross buy a Jeep and a Bronco to decide on a jeep because they can get a sport with base wheels, small axles, halogen lights, but then show off to their friends with $2000 leather seats and a factory upgraded headunit from the factory (because we all know most of these buyers won't be buying aftermarket and doing it themselves).

Using Porsche as an example doesn’t support your point. Porsche doesn’t compromise on performance. Likewise, Jeep shouldn’t compromise on offroad capability.

The approach you are suggesting is more similar to that Cadillac and Lincoln followed for much of the 1970s through the 1990s: load the vehicles with “stuff” to drive up prices, with little regard for actual driving competence. Eventually, buyers stopped taking them seriously.

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