Additional HP?

DanW

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Our jl is a 2.0t, so even when I tune it the comparison wouldn't be relevant. I'm not trying to build a race car out of the jeep, the biggest benefit I see of the tunes that are finally out now is they get rid of the factory horsepower cutting in 4 low.
That 2.0 actually would have much greater potential for significant power increase from a tune, with that turbo! I'm sure someone will post some amazing numbers at some point. My nephew at 4Piston said he could get over 800hp out of that engine if he did a head job, tune with E85, and bigger turbo on it. He's got a Civic Type R that he's getting ready to dyno. He thinks he'll crack 1,000 hp. His company specializes in Hondas, but he said the Jeep 2.0 has great potential.





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Zandcwhite

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That 2.0 actually would have much greater potential for significant power increase from a tune, with that turbo! I'm sure someone will post some amazing numbers at some point. My nephew at 4Piston said he could get over 800hp out of that engine if he did a head job, tune with E85, and bigger turbo on it. He's got a Civic Type R that he's getting ready to dyno. He thinks he'll crack 1,000 hp. His company specializes in Hondas, but he said the Jeep 2.0 has great potential.
Definitely no desire to go that wild. Diablo sport canned tune only picks up 20hp and 25ftlbs at the peak, but they are showing gains as high as 65hp and 90ftlbs down low which is perfect for our use of the Jeep. The shift in power toward the lower rpms would be perfect. Just noticed the wj in your sig. Ours is an 01 limited with the 4.7L. It’s got a super duty Dana 60 front, shaved 14 bolt rear, coilovers and triangulated 4 link in back, 3 link in front, and a few other mods.

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DanW

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Btw, talked to my nephew who owns 4Piston Racing. He doesn't know the Pentastar well, but said those kinds of numbers that guy in the video is claiming make him skeptical. But he did say with some engines and a good tune, it is possible.

He also said that MANY tune shops manipulate they dynos to make customers happy with their tunes that they paid for. Nobody cross checks them. They just see the numbers and brag to their friends. He'd like to know what make of dyno it is. He said Dynojet is the hardest to manipulate, but that even it can be done.

It would also be telling to see what kind of 1/4 mile times the guy was running with the baseline and now. But I didn't see anwhere in the comments where he ever mentioned times at the track.

He said it is very common for tuners to manipulate the numbers, unfortunately. He sees that a lot in the racing industry, too.

So are the numbers legit? Maybe, but I need more than a Youtube video like that to believe he got that much running E10, even with 91 octane.
 

DanW

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Definitely no desire to go that wild. Diablo sport canned tune only picks up 20hp and 25ftlbs at the peak, but they are showing gains as high as 65hp and 90ftlbs down low which is perfect for our use of the Jeep. The shift in power toward the lower rpms would be perfect. Just noticed the wj in your sig. Ours is an 01 limited with the 4.7L. It’s got a super duty Dana 60 front, shaved 14 bolt rear, coilovers and triangulated 4 link in back, 3 link in front, and a few other mods.

41922CB2-F715-4159-9000-2C97BAC67E6C.jpeg


B723A7D7-84CB-459F-A27A-6DDB3C21ACFD.jpeg


6EA11436-4485-4077-932B-1516A822EAD3.png
Yeah, we love that 4.7. I wish they'd have put it in the JK when I bought mine. Runs like a clock at 115k miles. Love the WJ, too. It belongs to my 17yo son.

That's a badass WJ you've got right there! If I let him see that he'll start throwing money at his! Lol!
 
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DanW

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Definitely no desire to go that wild. Diablo sport canned tune only picks up 20hp and 25ftlbs at the peak, but they are showing gains as high as 65hp and 90ftlbs down low which is perfect for our use of the Jeep. The shift in power toward the lower rpms would be perfect. Just noticed the wj in your sig. Ours is an 01 limited with the 4.7L. It’s got a super duty Dana 60 front, shaved 14 bolt rear, coilovers and triangulated 4 link in back, 3 link in front, and a few other mods.

41922CB2-F715-4159-9000-2C97BAC67E6C.jpeg


B723A7D7-84CB-459F-A27A-6DDB3C21ACFD.jpeg


6EA11436-4485-4077-932B-1516A822EAD3.png
My nephew looked at the video and said it is indeed a Dynojet, so it would be more likely legit. He told me the one way he knows to cheat it but said most who use them don't know it. He also talked to a buddy with Pentastar experience who said if a tuner really knows what they are doing they could get that power or close to it. But even that guy agreed that just a CAI won't do squat and also said it might even lose power with the factory tune.

So my skepticism has been eliminated. Looks legit. I'd still love to see what it did to his 1/4 mile times. Cool to know this engine has that potential.

He still said it would be much easier to get big numbers with that 2.0 that's in your Jeep, though! Lol!
 

JayJay

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That 2.0 actually would have much greater potential for significant power increase from a tune, with that turbo! I'm sure someone will post some amazing numbers at some point. My nephew at 4Piston said he could get over 800hp out of that engine if he did a head job, tune with E85, and bigger turbo on it.
800hp out of a 122 cubic inch four cylinder? I'm guessing that it would need to be torn down and rebuilt after every 1/4 mile run just like a top fuel dragster?

Later,
Johnny
 

Zandcwhite

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800hp out of a 122 cubic inch four cylinder? I'm guessing that it would need to be torn down and rebuilt after every 1/4 mile run just like a top fuel dragster?

Later,
Johnny
Koenigsegg tfg is a 3 cylinder 2.0L that makes 600hp stock. The Lancia delta s4 was a 1.8L turbo and supercharged I4 that made over 550 hp way back in 1982. With forged internals and big boost, tiny engines can reliably make massive hp with plenty of longevity. The amount of boost needed would require a compound turbo system in order to be usable in a jeep, as that's the only way to get enough boost low enough in the rpms. Way overkill for a jeep anyway, as high speed handling is nowhere near where I'd want it to be trying to go full send on 800hp on or off road. A good tune that brings the boost in earlier and cuts down on the factory torque limiting is more than enough for me.
 

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I have the Mopar CAI (with the vent installed) and Dynamax muffler delete on my 3.6L - is there a noticeable difference? Maybe. Barely.
What has it done? Improved my fuel economy slightly (unless I’m flooring to hear the nice intake and exhaust noises of course). Improved ground clearance at the rear.
Regrets? Nope. They’re building blocks for future mods, look and sound good, aren’t hurting my warranty (or causing my dealership concerns over it) and are helping to save the Polar Bears by sipping a little bit less fuel when I’m acting my age**.



** Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional.
 

DanW

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800hp out of a 122 cubic inch four cylinder? I'm guessing that it would need to be torn down and rebuilt after every 1/4 mile run just like a top fuel dragster?

Later,
Johnny
That's what i would think, but I honestly don't think he's ever blown one or even worn one out. But he doesn't keep them in the same configuration for too long. He's been running it with around 650 hp for maybe 2 years. No issues. The big thing that will shorten its life, though will be the E85. But again, he won't run it long enough to wear it out. They rarely blow engines, either. He said he's putting a pretty big turbo on it. I'll try and get more specs and his prediction of how long it can last, along with how many miles he's got on its current configuration.

Even if it could last a long time, he's always cooking up something new, so he'll pull it long before its shot and change it up again.

That's the fun of owning your own company. You can have all sorts of fun. Their bread and butter is drag racing, but they have a very promising midget engine program. A team called Corey Motorsports out of AZ will run 2 cars in the Chili Bowl with it. They are getting ready to branch out into Honda ORV engines and Honda gave him a blown 250hp outboard to play with. They're going to tear it down and rebuild it to somewhere over 400hp, if he finds the time.

If I had an old YJ or TJ, I'd see if he'd put one of those Type R engines in it, maybe with a conservative 450 hp or so. What a hoot that would be!
 

BrntWS6

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There is no evidence e85 shortens engine life on one that is designed for it. If anything just the opposite as it burns much cleaner. Spend some time on planet85, a lot of those guys have been using it for decades. The model T could run on E85.

Ever pull the heads on a gas engine? The pistons are caked black. Do the same on a motor run on E85 and you could eat off them.


https://www.caranddriver.com/research/a32799249/flex-fuel-cars/
 

AnnDee4444

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Koenigsegg tfg is a 3 cylinder 2.0L that makes 600hp stock.
As cool as this engine is, freevalve gives it a huge advantage over any piston engine with camshafts, and it really isn't a good comparison for what the 2.0 could be capable of. The Mercedes 416 HP 2.0 is a little more realistic, being that it shares the same general engine architecture.

My nephew at 4Piston said he could get over 800hp out of that engine if he did a head job, tune with E85, and bigger turbo on it.
All the 800 HP Honda 2ish-liters I'm finding online also rev close to twice as high as the JL's 2.0, with around 500-600 lb-ft of torque. Assuming tuner's can't get around the JL 2.0's lower redline*, 600 lb-ft of torque would only result in around 625 HP.

* or maybe they can raise the redline? The GME 2.0 does have about the same stroke length as an AP2 S2000... but I don't think anyone has ever measured the rod length, so we can't calculate max piston speed at this time.
 

Shots

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I have the Mopar CAI (with the vent installed) and Dynamax muffler delete on my 3.6L - is there a noticeable difference? Maybe. Barely.
.....
Regrets? Nope. They’re building blocks for future mods, look and sound good, .....
This pretty much sums it up. Alone they may or may not make a noticeable difference. If they do it will be very minor.
If you plan to build for more power, these are where you start. I would go as far as to say this is where you have to start.
They look and sound good. Obviously subjective, but these are probably the two main reasons to buy them. Which is obviously reason enough.

There is no evidence e85 shortens engine life on one that is designed for it. If anything just the opposite .....
The only real issue I've read about concerning E85, is that ethanol is more corrosive than gasoline. A fuel system built to run E85 will have components that are resistant to that corrosive property (such as stainless lines and components in lieu of plastic, rubber, mild or steel).
With that difference a fuel system (and engine) can handle E85 just fine. As noted, it may be beneficial. That corrosive nature can prevent buildup in the system, which will retain performance with age.
 

sourdough

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Merry Christmas to everyone! Question on more simple engine/exhaust mods. I have a 2020 2 dr Rubi w/the 6 cyl which I absolutely love. I was wondering what mods can be done to increase HP( not by a huge amount but noticeable) that would keep warranty integrity( if possible ). Thanks and be safe!
You did well getting a 2dr. with it’s lower weight vs a JLU 4 dr. Now start shedding weight for free performance gains. The concept Wrangler Stitch is a perfect example of what hot rodding has always been about....
stitch concept wrangler
 

DanW

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There is no evidence e85 shortens engine life on one that is designed for it. If anything just the opposite as it burns much cleaner. Spend some time on planet85, a lot of those guys have been using it for decades. The model T could run on E85.

Ever pull the heads on a gas engine? The pistons are caked black. Do the same on a motor run on E85 and you could eat off them.


https://www.caranddriver.com/research/a32799249/flex-fuel-cars/
I wasn't talking about engines designed to run it. I was talking about guys who tune their engines for E85 and they are NOT flex fuel engines.

Kevin the Pentastar designer flat out said it would shorten the life of the Pentastar and the context was not a flex fuel engine. I didn't ask him about the flex fuel version because I don't have one. In fact, I didn't ask him about E85 at all. He brought it up as something he would not do to his Pentastar. I'm assuming there there must be people who put it in non-flex fuel engines. So the distinction is that the engine has to be designed for it. But Kevin (the engineer) also said he still wouldn't run it his own Pentastar, even if a flex fuel model. I'll ask him for more detail about why, but he referenced it stripping oil from cylinder walls and being hard on oil.

The midget race engines my nephew builds runs on pure alcohol (not sure whether methanol or ethanol, but their properties are similar) and his own engine in his Type R runs E85. The race engines are designed for it. His company recommends customers change the oil after every race due to the effects of the alcohol fuel on the oil. He changes the oil in his Type R very frequently for similar reasons. He doens't have experience with long term testing, though, as his Type R engine has been rebuilt at least once and will be again shortly as he modifies it for more power. But he has said repeatedly that it is hard on oil. I'd imagine E85 isn't as hard on it as pure alcohol, though.

So to clarify my point, our Jeep 3.6 engines are NOT flex fuel. E85 will wear them out quicker, according to Kevin. He also said the ESS will accelerate wear, too. Although they do have advanced coatings on the critical parts. He just doesn't trust those coatings yet. He noted he was not involved in the testing.

I'm no chemist, though. I'm only repeating what the experts I know have said and advised.
 

Zandcwhite

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As cool as this engine is, freevalve gives it a huge advantage over any piston engine with camshafts, and it really isn't a good comparison for what the 2.0 could be capable of. The Mercedes 416 HP 2.0 is a little more realistic, being that it shares the same general engine architecture.



All the 800 HP Honda 2ish-liters I'm finding online also rev close to twice as high as the JL's 2.0, with around 500-600 lb-ft of torque. Assuming tuner's can't get around the JL 2.0's lower redline*, 600 lb-ft of torque would only result in around 625 HP.

* or maybe they can raise the redline? The GME 2.0 does have about the same stroke length as an AP2 S2000... but I don't think anyone has ever measured
As cool as this engine is, freevalve gives it a huge advantage over any piston engine with camshafts, and it really isn't a good comparison for what the 2.0 could be capable of. The Mercedes 416 HP 2.0 is a little more realistic, being that it shares the same general engine architecture.



All the 800 HP Honda 2ish-liters I'm finding online also rev close to twice as high as the JL's 2.0, with around 500-600 lb-ft of torque. Assuming tuner's can't get around the JL 2.0's lower redline*, 600 lb-ft of torque would only result in around 625 HP.

* or maybe they can raise the redline? The GME 2.0 does have about the same stroke length as an AP2 S2000... but I don't think anyone has ever measured the rod length, so we can't calculate max piston speed at this time.
Yes the freevalve is a completely different animal, which is why I referenced the delta s4 from the 80's. In rally trim it made over 500hp, and engineers tested at high enough boost levels to hit 1,000hp. Big boost will make big power on anything, so long as the crank, pistons, and rods are up to the task. Would I want to turn the boost that high on a Jeep? Absolutely not. Do I think it's possible that the gme would hold together at 1,000 hp? Probably not, but I'm sure somebody will find out one of these days. Give them time to be out of warranty and somebody is going to slap on a bigger turbo and turn one way up until they find the limit. The eurocompulsion guys have the very similar alfa 2.0t hitting 390hp and 450ftlbs reliably with little more than an intake and a tune. I'd say similar numbers are very possible out of the jeep variant and would be plenty for anything I'd ever do in the jeep.
 

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