0w20 more engine wear?

[Badunit]

Everyone can use whatever oil they think is best but I swear I think people like to bash Amsoil just to bash it. No proof, just bashing. So here is another video from Project Farm, who appears to be regarded as an oil expert on this forum (or at least is regarded as someone who does valid testing of oils). Let's all sit quietly and watch his tests and listen to his opinion. Wear scar comparison is 5 minutes in.

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[CarbonSteel]

I Understand what you are saying, but it's interesting in the test project farm did, the 5w20 had less wear than the 0w20.

Project Farm is a hobby at best...keep that in mind. The scar test is interesting, but does not replicate the internal workings of an engine.

 

[Upnarms]

Project Farm is a hobby at best...keep that in mind. The scar test is interesting, but does not replicate the internal workings of an engine.

I don't know who thinks proj farm guy is an oil expert, but he does some interesting tests on oil, tools, and other items (oil additives, cleaners, waxes, etc). I don't see a lot of tests done like that and I'm not saying it's the same as an engine. That being said, even in his tests there were clear differences between the different types of the same brand oil. How that translates to a car engine is to be seen. I still find his videos entertaining and informative. He does his best to keep the test conditions constant for each and gives his opinions based on the results.

I really appreciate all the feedback on this thread. I'm learning quite a bit - like amsoil is my new fry oil, cooking spray, sun tan oil, and asphalt sealer ?. Seriously though, thanks for everyone's input.

 

[CarbonSteel]

That being said, even in his tests there were clear differences between the different types of the same brand oil. How that translates to a car engine is to be seen.

Clear differences is subjective at best with no controls whatsoever being used or stated. Short of a 1960s flat tappet engine with a super high valve spring rate, and even then it would not have the PSI load his scar test does so nothing he is doing relates to an engine.

He rated Rotella Gas Truck "better" than M1, but in practical use that has not been proven or even the case.

Hobby...

 

[dstevens]

Must resist this thread .... oil consumption is mainly from rings which have not been broken in correctly. Not from oil.

 

[Jeep Willys]

Also in AZ and I run 5/30 PPU as well since I always take an oil sample for analysis and find that the 2.0T, being a direct injection (DI) engine, does tend to have a bit more fuel dilution over time. It's small, but normal for DI engines, especially due to the start/stop nature of PHEV. In addition, oils shear over time as well. Add that to a bit of fuel dilution (0.2-0.4) and it'll measure below a 20 weight...too thin for 110 degree temps.

even after 8k miles my motor was showing basically no fuel dilution. Also the oil was essentially identical to brand new oil in all measurable fields

if you think you are getting some you should send a sample to black stone.

0/20 is fine. 5/20 is fine. 5/30 is probably fine. On a new motor I’d be (and am) running 0/20, but at like 100k I might step to 5/30. We will see what test results bring later

 

[Creeker]

My $0.015 worth.

Changing oil at 3 to 5 kmiles (as compared to 10 kmile) intervals is more important than the difference between 0-20W or 5-20W oil. Especially on motors that have direct injection.

 

[pnut]

I know this isn't the test of all tests, but I saw this project farm video and couldn't help but notice the wear scar for 0w20 was much worse than the 5w20. Makes me think about going back to 5w20, which was what the JK 3.6 called for. They claim the 0w20 gives better fuel efficency but at what cost?

I live in AZ where temps rarely get below freezing. I hear the 0w20 flows better in very cold temps.

Any thoughts on running 5w20? I'm already past my warranty, so voiding it isn't my concern. My greater concern is engine wear.

Curious as to everyone's opinion and if anyone has been running 5w20 in the JL 3.6.

I will never understand why owners deviate from what the factory recommends.

"I hear" is not a solid data driven decision. Even youtube videos, unless they all come to the exact same conclusion (which they don't) is unlikely to supersede the 1000s of hours of work done by Jeep.

I mean it's your vehicle to do with what you please but it baffles me.

 

[Upnarms]

I will never understand why owners deviate from what the factory recommends.

"I hear" is not a solid data driven decision. Even youtube videos, unless they all come to the exact same conclusion (which they don't) is unlikely to supersede the 1000s of hours of work done by Jeep.

I mean it's your vehicle to do with what you please but it baffles me.

A lot of it has to do with manufacturer changing things in order to meet federal mpg standards. Many questions have been raised as to if these changes come at the expense of longevity.

Look at all the issues created when try added the ESS to the JL. Take a quick trip around the forum at all the problems people have with the aux battery and the ess.

"they" also tell us the transmission never needs serviced with fluid changes. It's a lifetime transmission fluid. Yes, correct, and the lifetime of your transmission will be much shorter. Ask those who have had it changed hiw filthy it is at 50k miles.


All of this to say, the manufactures don't necessarily recommend the ideal maintenance or install the ideal parts. Regulations and costs always have factor in.

I just pose the question if it was potentially more damaging or not than alternatives.

 

[five9dak]

Just remember the number to the left of the W is the Winter rating and does not stand for Weight.

The number to the left of the W also has no bearing whatsoever on wear except at extremely low temperatures.

It is the number to the right of the W that has the most impact on wear.

The high temperature high shear (HTHS) viscosity numbers are the most insightful into wear reduction.

It is generally accepted 2.6 HTHS is the minimum viscosity before accelerated or sustained wear occurs in an internal combustion engine.

Most xW-20 oils have an HTHS of 2.6 so the only question that needs be answered is do you operate or push your engine enough to cause xW-20 oil to drop below 2.6?

My guess is that many here do...so xW-30 should be your oil of choice...

Oil Brand	Viscosity	Minimum KV @100°C	Maximum KV @100°C	HTHS @ 150°C
---	xW-20	5.6	9.3	2.6
---	xW-30	9.3	12.5	2.9
---	xW-40	12.6	16.3	3.7

I don't disagree with anything you said.

Another thing for everyone to keep in mind is that multiweight oils use viscosity modifiers to achieve their multi weight performance across varying temperatures. These additives break down with oil shear and become less effective.

0w20 is 0 weight base stock oil plus modifiers to bring it up to 20wt hot. That's great, until the oil gets sheared and it starts performing more like the base stock when it's hot.

The longer your oil change interval the more this can become an issue. The bigger the difference between the weights, the more it relies on these modifiers.

 

[KCSgtMaj]

Why do we keep resurrecting these dead horses?

 

[azwjowner]

Why do we keep resurrecting these dead horses?

Because from a psychological perspective, people like to feel in control of their fate. Rather than accept the reality that the random chance of the variation in manufacturing quality will determine how long their particular engine lasts, people would rather obsess about oil because it makes them feel like they can partially control the outcome.

 

[chevymitchell]

Because from a psychological perspective, people like to feel in control of their fate. Rather than accept the reality that the random chance of the variation in manufacturing quality will determine how long their particular engine lasts, people would rather obsess about oil because it makes them feel like they can partially control the outcome.

Well said.

 

[five9dak]

Why do we keep resurrecting these dead horses?

I sat through those tribology courses in college so occasionally I get to ramble about it.

 

[Midwestjeepguy]

Could be total coincidence, but the few vehicles I have driven with 0w20 all consume oil. At work I drive an '18 Silverado that was new at the time. Consumed 2 quarts between changes. Fleet guys said it was an issue with those vehicles. My jl seems to lose a quart between changes, especially if I'm doing some towing up the mountains during that interval. I saw some consumption like that with my last jk and 5w20. My TJ doesn't seem to lose a drop. 10w40 in the 4.0.

My concern was the wear difference i see in that test. Interesting results

FWIW, manufacturer calls for 0w20 in both my 2018 JLUR (3.6L w/72k miles) and 2016 GMC Sierra (6.2L w/182k miles) and neither of them consume oil between changes. Sierra is direct injection.

Also, I use AMSoil products...

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