0W20 engine oil?

[ForestRanger]

I saw an interesting reference that suggests FCA went with 0W20 motor oil in my 2018 Wrangler V6 in order to meet competitive miles-per-gallon fuel goals...and that this lighter oil might not offer the protection that 5W20 or 5W30 oil provides. Your thoughts please?

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[jromanmd]

O.M.G. This has been discussed a LOT. Search the forums.

 

[YBABRAT]

Over 90k with factory spec. Honda did similar back in 2011 on engines made before 2011 got the service update to 0w-20 on oil changes. IIRC there were a few oiling issues prior to 2011 (2006 - 2010). Variable valve timing actuators could be effected by contaminants and thicker oil. some reported ticking and oil consumption. Tell those who push 0w-20 as bad here... Honda has more engines running on 0w-20 than Jeep and have higher RPM redlnes. Honda never blinked when including some earlier Gen engines in the mix. oh by the way Honda is no slouch on long running engines.

 

[Aussicon]

Here we go…….

 

[g2020]

For motor oil, I follow the owner's manual at least while the vehicle is under warranty. After that, the book does say "recommend". Also read the thousands of other posts on this topic and then get back to us.

SERVICING AND MAINTENANCE | Engine Oil Selection 3.6L Engine

"...the manufacturer only recommends engine oils that are API Certified and meet the requirements of FCA Material Standard MS-6395."​

SERVICING AND MAINTENANCE | Engine Oil Viscosity (SAE Grade) — 3.6L Engine

"Lubricants which do not have both the [API] engine oil certification mark and the correct SAE viscosity grade number should not be used."​

TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS | ENGINE

"We recommend you use API Certified SAE 0W-20 Engine Oil, meeting the requirements of FCA Material Standard MS-6395...."​

• Some oils are not API Certified
• It appears that MS-6395 is not as stringent (see post #25) as GM dexos 1 Gen 3, but it is the FCA/Jeep standard for this oil, and there are many options that meet MS-6395
• If you use the recommended oil, you will not risk voiding the warranty

 

[Jeep Wick]

I saw an interesting reference that suggests FCA went with 0W20 motor oil in my 2018 Wrangler V6 in order to meet competitive miles-per-gallon fuel goals...and that this lighter oil might not offer the protection that 5W20 or 5W30 oil provides. Your thoughts please?

100% it is for fuel mileage. I run 10w30 or even 10w40 in the summer, specs be damned.

 

[ForestRanger]

Many thanks, Wick!

 

[Max Headroom]

Over 90k with factory spec. Honda did similar back in 2011 on engines made before 2011 got the service update to 0w-20 on oil changes. IIRC there were a few oiling issues prior to 2011 (2006 - 2010). Variable valve timing actuators could be effected by contaminants and thicker oil. some reported ticking and oil consumption. Tell those who push 0w-20 as bad here... Honda has more engines running on 0w-20 than Jeep and have higher RPM redlnes. Honda never blinked when including some earlier Gen engines in the mix. oh by the way Honda is no slouch on long running engines.

0W 20?
Short answer, NO.

I have an 08 Element with 271k miles, still doesn't use oil, and I have run the spec lighter oil. I also have a 97 del Sol with even more miles and I run the 30w in that (also the spec).
Honda's are a different beast than a Jeep, and IMO running such a thin oil is just asking for problems. There's no real downside to running a heavier oil, except for a minuscule drop in MPG. It cost basically the same, and it might just add some life to that engine. It sure wont take any life off.

You know Ford did the same thing with the V10. When CAFE standards went up, the spec'd a lighter oil than had been recommended for years in that engine. All they did is change the owners manual. Some engines (like my motorhome) they didn't even update the filler cap. My cap still specs the previous weight in the molded in markings. If you go to any RV or truck forum, or BTOG, you'll see plenty of people arguing for the updated spec with the same (lame ) argument that 'the design engineers know more than you'. Horse hockey. The design engineers were told to change the spec by management. They knew a few engines were going to grenade while under warranty(which they did), but replacing them is cheaper than not meeting the CAFE standard. And they also knew that a bunch more wouldn't fail until the warranty was up.
As for me, nothing I own is going to see enough of an improvement in MPG to risk a blown motor from running thin oil. I'll let someone else be the beta tester. Seems like there's no shortage of volunteers...

 

[UTME]

For motor oil, I follow the owner's manual at least while the vehicle is under warranty. After that, the book does say "recommend". Also read the thousands of other posts on this topic and then get back to us.

SERVICING AND MAINTENANCE | Engine Oil Selection 3.6L Engine

"...the manufacturer only recommends engine oils that are API Certified and meet the requirements of FCA Material Standard MS-6395."​

SERVICING AND MAINTENANCE | Engine Oil Viscosity (SAE Grade) — 3.6L Engine

"Lubricants which do not have both the [API] engine oil certification mark and the correct SAE viscosity grade number should not be used."​

TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS | ENGINE

"We recommend you use API Certified SAE 0W-20 Engine Oil, meeting the requirements of FCA Material Standard MS-6395...."​

• Some oils are not API Certified
• It appears that MS-6395 is not as stringent (see post #25) as GM dexos 1 Gen 3, but it is the FCA/Jeep standard for this oil, and there are many options that meet MS-6395
• If you use the recommended oil, you will not risk voiding the warranty

The jeep dealer uses pennzoil platinum 0W-20. So do I. Reasonable price for 5 qt jug at Walmart. Also use the Mopar oil filter. Change every 5k miles.

 

[g2020]

A Google search on this topic found post #166 (of 315 total) in this thread on this forum. It is a good place to start, if you're still interested, after reading the next post (post #11).

While 0W-20 meets spec, the two 5W-30 options below are also API Certified and meet MS-6395. Needless to say, 5W-30 is a step between 0W-20 and 10W-30.

Here are a couple of 5W-30 options for verifying the specs shown on the back of each jug:
Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30
Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5W-30

 

[Old Dogger]

These oil Threads having been going on, since the origination of vehicle Forum. Everybody has an opinion, but what is it based on, is what is missing in most..LOL
THE BELOW IS FROM THE DESIGN ENGINEER THAT WAS INVOLVED WITH THE PENTASTAR 3.6 ENGINE. This will show one, what the different viscosity's benefit, or maybe not. But it is from an engineer with the hands on 3.6 development, not just a guess Enjoy:

Nice! As a former Pentastar design engineer I am slightly bias, but the engine is really high quality. Few points from the development using tens of millions of dollars in analysis and testing regarding the oil and durability..... The lighter oil was chosen mostly for fuel economy BUT engineering is the science of compromise. You help one thing but hurt another. A thicker oil will reduce timing chain and tensioner wear because the center timing chain idler doesn't go fully hydrodynamic till about 1650rpm on 5w-20. So, a thicker oil will lower that number slightly and with general loads/speeds the engine spends a lot of time around 1500-1750 rpm with the 8 speed. So thicker oil is a win there. Additionally, the earlier engines had what was called the "McDonald's Arches" in the idler bearing which was intended in making a more uniform distribution but in actuality acted as a knife edge. This design was changed around 2014 to a smooth bearing. So overall timing chain issues will likely follow the 2011-2014 engine years more than 2014+. Where you lose.... The head is very complicated with a Type II valve train. Meaning lots of things to pressurize and pump up at start up. A thicker oil didn't do so well here (on long sit times +cold start) and contributed to a overall increased engine wear especially in the head and cam bearings. Last point. This engine needs occasional WOT runs if you want it to last. Granny cycling is bad for it. So bad for it we actually created a new granny cycle test during the cylinder #3 misfire issue. The highest wear is in the valve guides, because of tight valve stem seals (for emissions, reduce oil burn). They basically dry out. When you go WOT/high rpm/load you get some fresh oil in there and this keeps the wear down. Thicker oil might not help this condition but we also change the valves/guides/seals in 2014+. Not sure the impact. Cheers! Kevin PS. Turn off stop start and do not run e85 if you are concerned about engine wear. Eats the engine alive.

 

[YBABRAT]

0W 20?
Short answer, NO.

I have an 08 Element with 271k miles, still doesn't use oil, and I have run the spec lighter oil. I also have a 97 del Sol with even more miles and I run the 30w in that (also the spec).
Honda's are a different beast than a Jeep, and IMO running such a thin oil is just asking for problems. There's no real downside to running a heavier oil, except for a minuscule drop in MPG. It cost basically the same, and it might just add some life to that engine. It sure wont take any life off.

You know Ford did the same thing with the V10. When CAFE standards went up, the spec'd a lighter oil than had been recommended for years in that engine. All they did is change the owners manual. Some engines (like my motorhome) they didn't even update the filler cap. My cap still specs the previous weight in the molded in markings. If you go to any RV or truck forum, or BTOG, you'll see plenty of people arguing for the updated spec with the same (lame ) argument that 'the design engineers know more than you'. Horse hockey. The design engineers were told to change the spec by management. They knew a few engines were going to grenade while under warranty(which they did), but replacing them is cheaper than not meeting the CAFE standard. And they also knew that a bunch more wouldn't fail until the warranty was up.
As for me, nothing I own is going to see enough of an improvement in MPG to risk a blown motor from running thin oil. I'll let someone else be the beta tester. Seems like there's no shortage of volunteers...

You missed the point... Old Dogger im his post before this backed me up on reason to keep 0w-20. I run my jeep like I stole it going up steep inclines during a 30 mile commutes. I discovered that with Honda V6 in 2011. VVT tech needs the run through to keep smooth operation. Like stated above Pentastar engines were setup to operate in casual driving at just under 2k RPM with the 8 speed automatic in mind. If you follow my threads and replies. In real world jeeping, not city drives to the mall... MPG increases above 2k RPM. My sweet spot is just under 2500 RPM, above 60°F. Why?... because the engine is designed to run well hot! I loose 1 to 1.5 MPG when engine operates in below 60°F weather and has no difference with MPG running an average of 70MPH, which is broken up in segments of 65, 55, and 45 posted MPH speeds, compared to following the posted speed limits along a 30 mile stretch. PENTASTAR ENGINES RUN MORE EFFICIENTLY ABOVE 60°F WITH RPM ABOVE 2350.

So to simplify city dwellers can use higher viscosity oil as a benefit... but real world jeepers need factory spec oil for valve train. As valve train has tolarances for mechanical / hydraulic operation of VVT.

Use what ever oil you want that fits into spec. the key is proper oil change schedules. Even Valvoline engineers agree 5k is the limit on synthetics, even if some oil is rated above. It's not about break down, it's about cycling out contamination with clean oil. Today's synthetic oils are light years above what some have come to know from a few decades past.

I am glad my engine is considered high mileage. Restore and Protect is easy to find and works. A no brainer amongst the Penzoil, Amisoil and Mobil 1 yellers. They fear high milage failure with so called inferior oil? I wonder what they will say when I reach 200k on my so called inferior oil.

 

[UTME]

These oil Threads having been going on, since the origination of vehicle Forum. Everybody has an opinion, but what is it based on, is what is missing in most..LOL
THE BELOW IS FROM THE DESIGN ENGINEER THAT WAS INVOLVED WITH THE PENTASTAR 3.6 ENGINE. This will show one, what the different viscosity's benefit, or maybe not. But it is from an engineer with the hands on 3.6 development, not just a guess Enjoy:

Nice! As a former Pentastar design engineer I am slightly bias, but the engine is really high quality. Few points from the development using tens of millions of dollars in analysis and testing regarding the oil and durability..... The lighter oil was chosen mostly for fuel economy BUT engineering is the science of compromise. You help one thing but hurt another. A thicker oil will reduce timing chain and tensioner wear because the center timing chain idler doesn't go fully hydrodynamic till about 1650rpm on 5w-20. So, a thicker oil will lower that number slightly and with general loads/speeds the engine spends a lot of time around 1500-1750 rpm with the 8 speed. So thicker oil is a win there. Additionally, the earlier engines had what was called the "McDonald's Arches" in the idler bearing which was intended in making a more uniform distribution but in actuality acted as a knife edge. This design was changed around 2014 to a smooth bearing. So overall timing chain issues will likely follow the 2011-2014 engine years more than 2014+. Where you lose.... The head is very complicated with a Type II valve train. Meaning lots of things to pressurize and pump up at start up. A thicker oil didn't do so well here (on long sit times +cold start) and contributed to a overall increased engine wear especially in the head and cam bearings. Last point. This engine needs occasional WOT runs if you want it to last. Granny cycling is bad for it. So bad for it we actually created a new granny cycle test during the cylinder #3 misfire issue. The highest wear is in the valve guides, because of tight valve stem seals (for emissions, reduce oil burn). They basically dry out. When you go WOT/high rpm/load you get some fresh oil in there and this keeps the wear down. Thicker oil might not help this condition but we also change the valves/guides/seals in 2014+. Not sure the impact. Cheers! Kevin PS. Turn off stop start and do not run e85 if you are concerned about engine wear. Eats the engine alive.

The biggest takeaway “Turn off stop start and do not run e85 if you are concerned about engine wear. Eats the engine alive.”

 

[YBABRAT]

The biggest takeaway “Turn off stop start and do not run e85 if you are concerned about engine wear. Eats the engine alive.”

I just posted a new thread on oil pressure. The Pentastar engine has a pressurized charge state for starting. Most engine wear is at startup, but with non pressurized oiling system for startup. Hard to say how much wear is being prevented, with modern oils doing a very good job at lubrication.

Who runs E85 in a pentastar? Not going that route, nor should anyone!

 

[Upnarms]

We need to do a search and find out of there are more threads on oil or death wobble. That's gotta be a close one!

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