Willys vs Rubicon

[Slippery Pete]

My GF has a stock 21' Willys Unlimited 3.6 w/e-torque and wants to go to 35's along with new wheels. Can anyone give opinions on the re-gearing/lift required?

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[ArmyRN]

Since the XR package comes with 35" tires, a 1.5" lift and 4.56 gears, I'd use that as a starting point.

 

[Wabujitsu]

Since the XR package comes with 35" tires, a 1.5" lift and 4.56 gears, I'd use that as a starting point.

Especially if one plans on going bigger than 35s. 4.10 is quite sufficient for 35s, especially with the 8-speed auto.

 

[ajkitebrder40]

I'll throw my 2 cents in - I had a JKU X, great vehicle, but I rarely off-roaded. It was my DD, and the main reason I have a Jeep is because I'm on the beach 200+ days a year with gear, so....no carpet, washout interior, etc.

When I went to buy a JL, I was going with a discount volume dealer regardless, so my JLUR came in right around $42k (2021). At the time, a similar Willy's was about $4k less. I planned on and have off-roaded the Rubicon more, here's what I've figured out:

1. Off-Roading: I don't need the Rubicon. I'm in the Southeast, we have some great trails/parks, but mostly I want to off-road to get to places to hike, camp, and now mtn bike. There's a level of trail (say a Black at Gulches) that I've gotten on and barely got up with a lot of help and needed lockers. I'm good on doing that just to say I can do it......I like hill climbs, descents, etc. but most of the time I'm on forest trails with mud/ruts.

2. XR: If......and it's a big if I could live with an automatic (and the price hike with it) I would get a Willy's XR tomorrow. It wasn't available when I ordered. I feel like a LSD and more clearance would suit me just fine. A stock Willy's lifted with 35's would need a regear, you could get away with it, but I lived with it on my JK for a long time, and would rather not again.

3. Electronics/Leather: I don't really care about any of it, so that's a non-factor for me.

4. Resale - It's definitely a factor if you plan on upgrading in the near future.

So......if I was you and having an automatic wasn't a deal breaker, I'd go Willy's XR.

 

[Beungood]

The 2.5 inch track increase for a Rubicon or 4 inch track increase for an Xtreme Recon (Willys XR or Rubicon XR or High Tide) big wide axles would be nice for an overlander, 5900-6100 lbs GVWR also nice but you will probably need more, Performance Brakes (in the XR package, larger diameter thicker rear rotors with larger brake pistons) also nice. eTorque V-6 gives you an extra 90 lbs. ft. of torque below 2.000 rpm to temporarily fill your torque curve, but with 3.45 gearing it will not be too impressive. Xtreme Recon High Tide gets you 4.56 gears and the eTorque V-6 with 48 V lithium battery pack and 850RE transmission. That combination will get your attention and would work well for an overlander with his gear. Pretty sweet and still decent fuel economy. And there is always the 392 if both price and fuel economy are not an issue. And the diesel would be hard to beat for pulling a load though diesel versus gasoline prices are skewed right now towards gasoline. And it is the last year of production for the Wrangler.diesel. But none of that would get me to sell a nice newer Willys unless there was something that you fundamentally did not like about your Willys. Then cost out what it would cost to upgrade your Jeep to what you want versus buying a new one.

What is the High Tide option?

 

[Beungood]

Given your use case "the occasional obstacle" is not inevitable.

Your willys will tackle anything you need it to tackle. If you want to be very prepared for an unforseen situation what you need is a winch.

The Rubicon just makes true offroading a a bit more fun and easier since it doesnt have to rely on traction control for locking up. And some other goodies, but lockers are thr main thing.

Could get the Willy's XR or upgrade your current rig with True trac's when rear LS wears out, or combination True trac and That Auburn Selectable locker that is limited slip off and can fully lock.

 

[Beungood]

Yes, but Gen. George C. Marshall said that the Jeep did more to win WWII than any other military vehicle. I know Ford and others built the Jeep also during the war, but basically that is the WWII Willys MB. That is quite a historical background for the Willys name. That is why I really like the Xtreme Recon being offered in the Willys. I'd tell Jeep to go one step further on the Willys XR and offer the new Eaton Detroit Trutrac differentials front and rear just now available for the big M210Wide HD front and M220 Wide rear axles with 4.56 gears on the Willys XR and High Tide. Different from Rubicon's lockers. They are not as good if one wheel is up in the air as the lockers but Trutracs are arguably better for all the time that you are driving, no matter the selection in your transfer case (4-Hi, 4-Lo or 2-Hi) and better in vehicle directional stability when engaged versus lockers. Combined with brake limited differentials (BLD), that would make Willys XR something special and puts some teeth in the High Tides. Lockers aren't the answer for all of us. I'd like something helping me on slick asphalt, debris covered trails with water and mud, standing water covered roads, and wash-outs. Seems to me this would be a better solution on snow covered asphalt roads and for overlanders as well, working 100% of the time that you are driving. A more thorough (from an offroad and an on-road perspective) and heavier duty (no clutch packs, no electronics, just HD bevel gears) solution than AWD.

A friend of mine installed Trutracs into his Jeep and that thing could perform. It was as say BLD seemed to make them work even better. Only stuck I seen him in was when he try to go up a huge snow bank at ramming speed.

 

[zouch]

i did a Truetrac in the rear of my last J**p, and in this Willys too; works better than a locker in the snow/ice, and the ride on the washboard roads that we have a lot of in the Dez is smoother than with a fully locked rear axle. (they are not specific to axle width so they work fine with the narrow 210/220 Willys axles in our Diesel.)

i put an E-Locker in the front. rarely need it, but it's nice to have when i do, and transparent when i don't.

 

[Zandcwhite]

i did a Truetrac in the rear of my last J**p, and in this Willys too; works better than a locker in the snow/ice, and the ride on the washboard roads that we have a lot of in the Dez is smoother than with a fully locked rear axle. (they are not specific to axle width so they work fine with the narrow 210/220 Willys axles in our Diesel.)

i put an E-Locker in the front. rarely need it, but it's nice to have when i do, and transparent when i don't.

Why on earth would you be on desert washboard roads with a rear locker engaged? 99% of the time you don't even need 4wd in the desert let alone lockers? I agree the limited slip is better in the ice/ light snow, but in the deep snow I'll take 2 locked axles every time.

 

[zouch]

i give up; why?
me? i wouldn't.

if all you have is a locker in the rear, that means your only choice is to lock the rear, or leave it open; neither of which works as well or as smoothly in that particular application as a Limited Slip.

in the snow; i don't care for the loss of steering i get with the front locked, and would only be using it when i *want* to travel in a straight line.

given that my free time is more likely to be spent in the Dez than the snow, until there's a reliable switchable locker that defaults to a limited slip when not locked, it's locker in the front and LSD in the rear for me.

Why on earth would you be on desert washboard roads with a rear locker engaged? 99% of the time you don't even need 4wd in the desert let alone lockers? I agree the limited slip is better in the ice/ light snow, but in the deep snow I'll take 2 locked axles every time.

 

[Zandcwhite]

i give up; why?
me? i wouldn't.

if all you have is a locker in the rear, that means your only choice is to lock the rear, or leave it open; neither of which works as well or as smoothly in that particular application as a Limited Slip.

in the snow; i don't care for the loss of steering i get with the front locked, and would only be using it when i *want* to travel in a straight line.

given that my free time is more likely to be spent in the Dez than the snow, until there's a reliable switchable locker that defaults to a limited slip when not locked, it's locker in the front and LSD in the rear for me.

I see 0 difference in the desert between the Detroit truetrac in my ram and the open diff in the Jeep on desert conditions. Typically you're traveling with some speed and there is no need for any kind of traction aid at that point. I agree with the front locker to a point in the snow, until it gets so deep that I need all the forward momentum I can get. At that point lockers out perform limited slips in my experience. Beyond that I wheel rocks far more often than ice so for me it's lockers over limited slips every time. Different strokes so they say.

 

[zouch]

those are 2 very different vehicles you're comparing.
in comparisons between like vehicles with different TADs, the difference is noticeable.
(there was a magazine that actually took a rear-end guy out to the Dez to swap TADs to do test runs in the *same* vehicle over the same course and documented observations the same as mine; i can't find it now though. it doesn't have anything to do with the thread topic, but perhaps someone else canand can share it?)

"need"? how much of any of what we're talking about is a legitimate "need"?
the difference in comfort between open, locked and LSD on washboard was appreciable. do i "need" it?
do we "need" to crawl rocks? ?

I see 0 difference in the desert between the Detroit truetrac in my ram and the open diff in the Jeep on desert conditions. Typically you're traveling with some speed and there is no need for any kind of traction aid at that point. I agree with the front locker to a point in the snow, until it gets so deep that I need all the forward momentum I can get. At that point lockers out perform limited slips in my experience. Beyond that I wheel rocks far more often than ice so for me it's lockers over limited slips every time. Different strokes so they say.

 

[Zandcwhite]

those are 2 very different vehicles you're comparing.
in comparisons between like vehicles with different TADs, the difference is noticeable.
(there was a magazine that actually took a rear-end guy out to the Dez to swap TADs to do test runs in the *same* vehicle over the same course and documented observations the same as mine; i can't find it now though. it doesn't have anything to do with the thread topic, but perhaps someone else canand can share it?)

"need"? how much of any of what we're talking about is a legitimate "need"?
the difference in comfort between open, locked and LSD on washboard was appreciable. do i "need" it?
do we "need" to crawl rocks? ?

I would definitely be interested in the article if someone can find it. I agree that a limited slip will result in smoother operation than a full locker in places where being fully locked isn't needed, but I've never had an issue with simply being open in the desert and cannot see how a limited slip could possibly be smoother in any way. 99% of the time in the desert I'm in 2wd at ~12psi and the sway bar disconnected in the Jeep and it's smooth sailing (great in my opinion considering it's a solid front axle). Obviously the ifs in the truck results in a smoother ride, but as far as forward propulsion I see/feel no difference (aside from the hemi power advantage)

 

[zouch]

if i had to try to describe my observations from being in similar vehicles with the different TADs, i can't come up with a better word to describe it than by saying the LSD keeps the tires from 'skittering' around as they hop from crest-to-crest on the washboard. the open difs allowed things to 'skitter' around more, and the locker was harsher as it didn't allow for the difference in movement the wheels were trying to turn.

i know "skitter" i's a stupid word, but i think you probably get the idea i'm trying to convey. it's not like it's a huge difference, but rather another one of those things that i didn't really notice until it was gone.

I would definitely be interested in the article if someone can find it. I agree that a limited slip will result in smoother operation than a full locker in places where being fully locked isn't needed, but I've never had an issue with simply being open in the desert and cannot see how a limited slip could possibly be smoother in any way. 99% of the time in the desert I'm in 2wd at ~12psi and the sway bar disconnected in the Jeep and it's smooth sailing (great in my opinion considering it's a solid front axle). Obviously the ifs in the truck results in a smoother ride, but as far as forward propulsion I see/feel no difference (aside from the hemi power advantage)

 

[Beungood]

i give up; why?
me? i wouldn't.

if all you have is a locker in the rear, that means your only choice is to lock the rear, or leave it open; neither of which works as well or as smoothly in that particular application as a Limited Slip.

in the snow; i don't care for the loss of steering i get with the front locked, and would only be using it when i *want* to travel in a straight line.

given that my free time is more likely to be spent in the Dez than the snow, until there's a reliable switchable locker that defaults to a limited slip when not locked, it's locker in the front and LSD in the rear for me.

I think there are two that default off to limited slip and lock up with a flip of a switch. Genright has a video on one they use.

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