Willys vs Rubicon

[Wilco7487]

I currently own a 2021 Willys and needing advice if the Rubicon is worth the upgrade.
I’m looking to build a camper with a rooftop tent, storage area in the trunk, fridge, etc.
I have zero experience off-roading and dont see myself rock crawling but my goal is to have road trips, drive to National Parks and have an all around vehicle. I’m sure the occassional obstacle is inevitable so I would like to be “prepared”. I’ve seen tours like the Pony Express much more up my alley. I live out of Austin, TX and have some beautiful parks to visit. The Willys handled well in Big Bend National Park although no specific challenging

My current Willys set up has the mud tires from the factory, LED headlamps. I’ve read good thanks about the command-trac as well as the Rubicon Rock-trac. Just wondering if exta features are worth it. This will obviously also be a daily driver. Would appreciate any lift size, suspension and gear ratio opinions. I also appreciate the bells and whistles, infotainment, heated seats, leather interior etc.
I appreciate the suggestions.

thanks!

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[TX_Ovrlnd]

You might be able to snag some take-off wide axles and possibly the transfer case from a Rubicon, these are the biggest pluses over a Willys. Highline fenders can be had from aftermarket or also sold by others going to metal shorties. Aftermarket disconnects are better than the electronic controlled sway bar (in my opinion). Be very careful of your CoG if you intend to go rock crawling with a rooftop tent, that could go ugly real quick.

All that said, I really love my Rubicon and am glad I saved to go straight to that package. The Willys was my second choice though.

 

[PhoenixM3]

Rubicon > Willys because more letters.

 

[five9dak]

Install the tent and go have fun.

If you find a specific deficiency, address it then. You probably won't. Trading up a practically new vehicle is pretty much always the wrong move.

 

[aldo98229]

The Willys with standard LSD is going to be more effective in the wide variety of overlanding situations you describe.

If you do decide to get a lift and larger tires, be aware that you might also want to regear. The stock 3.45 gearing is simply insufficient for tires larger than 34 inches.

And while they are doing the regearing, I’d also inquire about adding a TrueTrac to the front axle. After a long wait, a couple months Eaton Corporation finally introduced a TrueTrac LSD that works with JL axles.

I’d keep the Willys and use the money you save for your build. If you do it right, you will end up with a better overall rig for both your overlanding and your daily driving.

Good luck!

 

[Reinen]

It sounds like you're looking to be an Overlander, not a Rock Crawler. Once you load up with gear you'll find your primary issue is the weight of your cargo, which Rubicon features will not help. I have a Rubicon and I'm an Overlander. The Rubicon features are nice to have for sure, but Rubicon or Willys you'll still have to address the issue with your cargo weight.

I say stick with the Willys and if you find it having difficulty with your cargo weight (sag & hitting bump stops) spend your Rubicon money on an OME 2" Medium or Heavy Load suspension. Its made precisely for what you intend to do and it handles it very well. The 2" is based on Sport height so it won't be that much of a lift and won't be contrary to use as a DD.

 

[KevinC11]

Will all of you current and future load out fit in your current Jeep? Sounds like you may soon run out of cargo space. A Rubicon will not save you from that.

Go get a Gladiator Willys and call it good.

KevinC

 

[Sparty]

I'd also vote for Willys based on your information. It'll be plenty capable and You'll probably even like the overall ride/handling better

 

[Jtclayton612]

Willys for your purposes, maybe some heavier duty dual/triple rate springs but with all that extra stuff I’d try and keep CoG lower.

 

[Capt. Don]

It sounds like you're looking to be an Overlander, not a Rock Crawler. Once you load up with gear you'll find your primary issue is the weight of your cargo, which Rubicon features will not help. I have a Rubicon and I'm an Overlander. The Rubicon features are nice to have for sure, but Rubicon or Willys you'll still have to address the issue with your cargo weight.

I say stick with the Willys and if you find it having difficulty with your cargo weight (sag & hitting bump stops) spend your Rubicon money on an OME 2" Medium or Heavy Load suspension. Its made precisely for what you intend to do and it handles it very well. The 2" is based on Sport height so it won't be that much of a lift and won't be contrary to use as a DD.

The 2.5 inch track increase for a Rubicon or 4 inch track increase for an Xtreme Recon (Willys XR or Rubicon XR or High Tide) big wide axles would be nice for an overlander, 5900-6100 lbs GVWR also nice but you will probably need more, Performance Brakes (in the XR package, larger diameter thicker rear rotors with larger brake pistons) also nice. eTorque V-6 gives you an extra 90 lbs. ft. of torque below 2.000 rpm to temporarily fill your torque curve, but with 3.45 gearing it will not be too impressive. Xtreme Recon High Tide gets you 4.56 gears and the eTorque V-6 with 48 V lithium battery pack and 850RE transmission. That combination will get your attention and would work well for an overlander with his gear. Pretty sweet and still decent fuel economy. And there is always the 392 if both price and fuel economy are not an issue. And the diesel would be hard to beat for pulling a load though diesel versus gasoline prices are skewed right now towards gasoline. And it is the last year of production for the Wrangler.diesel. But none of that would get me to sell a nice newer Willys unless there was something that you fundamentally did not like about your Willys. Then cost out what it would cost to upgrade your Jeep to what you want versus buying a new one.

 

[ArmyRN]

You asked... here's my opinions.

I'm a big-time overlander and have been Jeeping for years. And I've got a 2023 JLU 2.0 Willys XR Sting Gray on order. Unless you're really into hardcore rock crawling, you don't really need the Rubicon's 4:1 transfer case or the ability to fully lock your axles. Run with what you've got, and build on that platform. It'll be cheaper in the long run, and you'll get your jeep set-up exactly how you want it. Don't concern yourself with the high-fenders that the Rubicon comes with. Will not be an issue with what you want to do with your Jeep.

A mild lift & increase in tire size and True-Tracs front & rear would be about all you need to do what you say you want to do with your Jeep (IMO a True-Trac in the rear would be an upgrade from the factory Trac-lock, as those clutch packs will eventually wear out). I eventually plan on putting True-Tracs in my upcoming JLU (once I get over the hit my savings account is going to take when this thing arrives!).

I've had True-Tracs front and rear in two of my vehicles and they are incredible (a 96 Ram 1500 4x4 and a 98 Jeep ZJ). Invisible on pavement, but awesome for mild to moderate off-roading and in snow. Kinda what you want in a daily driver and weekend overlander vehicle.

My factory Willys XR is coming with factory 4.56 gears and 35" (315x70x17") tires and a 1.5" lift. The factory has already done the math for you here. So if you went with that gear/tire combo and a good quality 2" lift (lots of options on lifts), you'll be good in that respect. If you're going to put in True-Tracs, you might as well change the gear ratio at the same time. You might need new rims for the larger tires.

This would be a mild lift and a moderate increase in tire size - nothing crazy. And the True-Tracs would allow you to go where you want off-road. True-Tracs aren't sexy like "Lockers", but getting stuck or worrying about traction when it starts getting rough isn't fun or sexy either.

You might need different rims to run the 315/70/17" or 315/75/16" tires on your Jeep depending on your rims (someone help me out here). What size rims do you currently have now (16"? 17"?... but I'm more concerned with back spacing)? A slightly taller 33" tire (285/75/16 or 285/70/17 or 285/75/17) might fit fine on your current rims without rubbing. Add a gear change to 4.10 to compensate for the taller 33" tire. And a set of take-off Rubicon or XR springs might give you another inch or so of lift to clear these if you didn't want a full-on 2" lift kit.

This would be a slightly cheaper route, but you might end up kicking yourself once it is done because changing gears & installing True-Tracs will cost the same no matter what gear ratio you choose, and if you're paying someone to install a lift the labor is the same pretty much no matter how high you're lifting (up to a 2" lift anyways), and the price difference between 33" vs 35" tires isn't that much more in the end. So unless you're really in love with your current rims and the metric 35" tires won't work on your current rims, then I'd say go with the 4.56 gears and 35" tires.

Mud tires are great in mud, but kinda poor everywhere else. Unless you're into mudding, you're better off with a good aggressive all terrain (AT) tire. Lots of options out there (there're probably whole threads on this AT vs MT topic). Everyone has their favorite. FWIW I'm currently running 33" Mickey Thompson Baja Boss AT tires on my TJ (285/75/16"). Mine also have the 3-peak/snowflake rating for snow. I know you live in TX, but once you get into overlanding and traveling with your Jeep, you might start considering trips into snow country (Colorado isn't that far away from you in Overlanding terms, and Alaska/Canada is on lots of folks' Overlanding bucket lists).

Here's my current overlanding set-up (before the Mickey Thompson Baja Boss AT tires). I need a trailer because there's not much room in a TJ. And a JLU will be so much more comfortable to drive in for the long distances I tend to Overland with (I'm usually gone at least a week or more). I think my new JLU will feel plush compared to my TJ.

Speaking of Canada and Alaska... I get around.

 

[five9dak]

Good point abut the M/Ts. Swap them for rubicon take offs with A/Ts and you'll be better set for a wider range of climates in your travels. Pick up an inch of OD as well.

 

[kah.mun.rah]

Go with the Willys XR

 

[Capt. Don]

The 2.5 inch track increase for a Rubicon or 4 inch track increase for an Xtreme Recon (Willys XR or Rubicon XR or High Tide) big wide axles would be nice for an overlander, 5900-6100 lbs GVWR also nice but you will probably need more, Performance Brakes (in the XR package, larger diameter thicker rear rotors with larger brake pistons) also nice. eTorque V-6 gives you an extra 90 lbs. ft. of torque below 2.000 rpm to temporarily fill your torque curve, but with 3.45 gearing it will not be too impressive. Xtreme Recon High Tide gets you 4.56 gears and the eTorque V-6 with 48 V lithium battery pack and 850RE transmission. That combination will get your attention and would work well for an overlander with his gear. Pretty sweet and still decent fuel economy. And there is always the 392 if both price and fuel economy are not an issue. And the diesel would be hard to beat for pulling a load though diesel versus gasoline prices are skewed right now towards gasoline. And it is the last year of production for the Wrangler.diesel. But none of that would get me to sell a nice newer Willys unless there was something that you fundamentally did not like about your Willys. Then cost out what it would cost to upgrade your Jeep to what you want versus buying a new one.

All the above is true. But Wrangler payload on our newer Wranglers is about 800 lbs and varies up or down (dramatically) based on how we option them. Overlanders need payload. Gladiator payload is 1,710 lbs. He is not talking about rock crawling on tight rocky trails. Mmmm. Seems to me like a Gladiator would do it. Rubicon Gladiator would give him the big axles with 2.5" wider track, 4.10 axle gears, 33s and he could still order the eTorque V-6 with 850re trans or the diesel with an even heavier duty transmission. What say you, JL Wrangler Forum?

 

[Wilco7487]

I appreciate the responses and seems like everyone is pushing toward keeping the Willys. Overlanding is definitely the word!! My wife and I enjoy long road trips and not sure I would be able to handle her stressing out and worrying haha.


No leather interior but I can manage. It has the heated seats and steering wheel. I believe those factory mud tires are 32’s(not sure though). Increasing tire size and improving suspension has been thought but could wait until I see how a thorough overland trip feels.

i also appreciate the gladiator recommendation but I would never be able to store in my garage lol. And it hails golf balls in Austin.

I see American Adventure Lab has a nice drawer system that makes room for a fridge. All potential weight from camping gear considered how much could it affect the ride, especially needing a spring upgrade?

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