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Permanently disable engine auto start stop (ESS) at stoplights?

NavyVet1959

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We as humans are so Lazy we can't push a button. And you would rather distroy you new vehicle.

How silly people are. VOID YOUR WARRANTY THEN GO AND LIE TO JEEP FOR HELP.
Still driving that overpriced electric golf cart? :)
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Jeepsterfreak

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If I find it irritating with the manual transmission, I'll probably implement this:

ess-override-module.gif
The F-150 owners are hacking the system by installing a jumper wire on the back of the switch. Could that be done on the JL also?

 

johnnymiz

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Navyvet....before you go to all that trouble, you should check if you can just imitate the clutch being pushed to the floor.
I dont have mine yet, so i cant physically try it, but on my porsche i had an issue with starting the car...the clutch had to be pushed to the floor to start and it didnt always work. So, i put a little zip-tie on the switch that was pushed by the clutch pedal. Problem solved
 

NavyVet1959

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The F-150 owners are hacking the system by installing a jumper wire on the back of the switch. Could that be done on the JL also?
The F-150 apparently has a momentary contact switch that it does not check to ensure someone just has it constantly pushed. It it was using a latching ON-OFF switch, it would not be an issue since the switch would stay in the position that you last left it and that would likely be acceptable to everyone that does not like the ESS system. The JL uses a momentary contact switch and the car's computer is constantly polling those switches to see if they have been pressed. Jeep Informant said that he already tried wedging a piece of paper in the switch to keep it depressed and the result was that the car told him that he had switch that was having a problem and ignored what he was trying to do. That leads me to believe that they are using a momentary contact switch, just like they do with the start button and the car's computer is constantly monitoring them for changes. I've done that sort of thing often with the Arduino micro-controllers and I see no reason to suspect that they are doing differently. Whether they are constantly polling or implemented an interrupt driver, it boils down to the same thing as far as we are concerned. Apparently when the car's computer first starts up, it goes out to each of the switches and checks to see if they are depressed and do not change state. If so, it apparently considers that an error condition.

It appears that the F-150 has 5 wires going to the back of the switch unit. I'm curious what they are all used for. I can see 2 being used for the switch and 2 being used for the LED, although you could also just use a common ground on the LED and the switch and you would only need 3 wires. Maybe the 4th wire is because they want to differentiate between power ground and signal ground. I could see a justification for that. I wonder what the 5th wire is doing. I don't remember how many wires the JL had going to the back of the ESS switch unit.

Of course, I *could* be wrong, but given what I've seen and how people describe it behaving in certain situations, in my somewhat expert opinion, I think there is a good chance that this is what is happening.
 
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JIMBOX

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The ESS button is identical to the OD button in the JK 42RLE(3spd) auto(07 thru 10)--if you didn't push it after ignition--OD was automatic/w the auto after 3rd gear--

If you pushed it after ignition--you only had the basic 3 spd's, I don't remember anyone coming up with a bypass system--

Obvious carryover !!!

Whatever

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smithrd65

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Still driving that overpriced electric golf cart? :)
Yes I can afford a Tesla, BMW, Chevy Ltz 2500, Rubicon JLU and ordered a ZR1 VETT 2 days ago.

I haven't voided a warranty over a button that can be pushed VERY EASY.

Again I get the mods on a Jeep no issue with that. But a button

Ladies and Gentlemen is the button WORTH YOUR WARRANTY??????????
 

NavyVet1959

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Yes I can afford a Tesla, BMW, Chevy Ltz 2500, Rubicon JLU and ordered a ZR1 VETT 2 days ago.

I haven't voided a warranty over a button that can be pushed VERY EASY.

Again I get the mods on a Jeep no issue with that. But a button

Ladies and Gentlemen is the button WORTH YOUR WARRANTY??????????
As the saying goes...

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For many of us, it's not a question of whether we can afford something, but whether we are willing to waste our money on something that we consider overpriced or an inferior design. Some people like to change cars every year and the car salesmen *love* these people. Some of us keep cars for at least 10 years before even thinking about replacing them. Of course, if you choose a car that doesn't change it's style much during those 10 years, it's not like it is noticeable that you are driving a 10 year old car. I pay cash for my vehicles and the pickup that I sold to make room for the JL was 14 years old and still in pretty good shape. Of course if the idiotic engineers at Dodge had not been braindead and put soy-based wiring insulation in the vehicle, it would have been even better.
 

smithrd65

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I will build one also buddy. I will purchase a 2014 beater to fix up for mudding are what ever.

But again who knows. Besides all this it's all fun
If I come off rude it's not that want to be hurtful.

I am into a lot of things which help many just have to come down to earth.
 

NavyVet1959

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I will build one also buddy. I will purchase a 2014 beater to fix up for mudding are what ever.

But again who knows. Besides all this it's all fun
If I come off rude it's not that want to be hurtful.

I am into a lot of things which help many just have to come down to earth.
I went through my fast car stage... I've owned 2 Porsches so far, but considering my age and how long I tend to keep a vehicle before selling it, it's unlikely that I'll have another one. It's quite possible that I won't outlive the JL -- *when* it ever arrives. :)

These days, if I want to go fast, I fly my plane... It only goes 130 kts (150 mph), but I can do that for 5 hours at a time (between refueling stops) and I don't have to be concerned about speeding tickets. Of course, the disadvantage is that I still need a rental car when I get to my destination and I might get stuck having to drive a *Toyota*... :( I probably should consider selling it since I don't fly it as much as I would like. Just don't seem to have the time to do it with other things that I need to do these days. I used to use it for travel out of town on contracts that I was working on. Especially to those smaller towns where they weren't a major airline hub and it would take all day to fly there commercially anyway. Those small towns that maybe get one or two flights each day from the commercial airlines and even with that, they are often a bit expensive. It's a convenience factor also. It's also a lot less tiring to make a 1000 mile flight in one day than a 1000 mile drive. And I trust the autopilot on an aircraft a LOT more than I trust that self-driving gimmick on the Tesla and some of the other autonomous vehicles. Sure, the autopilot might not have any sort of collision avoidance in it, but the philosophy of "big sky, small plane" comes into play. Planes just don't fly close to each other normally whereas cars by their very nature get really close to each other. :)

And then I have motorcycles, some of which I seldom ride because every time I want to ride them, the carbs need cleaning thanks to the damn ethanol that the contaminate our fuel supply with these days. My Harley has fuel injection and it doesn't care about ethanol -- it starts up every time without a problem.
 

smithrd65

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I went through my fast car stage... I've owned 2 Porsches so far, but considering my age and how long I tend to keep a vehicle before selling it, it's unlikely that I'll have another one. It's quite possible that I won't outlive the JL -- *when* it ever arrives. :)

These days, if I want to go fast, I fly my plane... It only goes 130 kts (150 mph), but I can do that for 5 hours at a time (between refueling stops) and I don't have to be concerned about speeding tickets. Of course, the disadvantage is that I still need a rental car when I get to my destination and I might get stuck having to drive a *Toyota*... :( I probably should consider selling it since I don't fly it as much as I would like. Just don't seem to have the time to do it with other things that I need to do these days. I used to use it for travel out of town on contracts that I was working on. Especially to those smaller towns where they weren't a major airline hub and it would take all day to fly there commercially anyway. Those small towns that maybe get one or two flights each day from the commercial airlines and even with that, they are often a bit expensive. It's a convenience factor also. It's also a lot less tiring to make a 1000 mile flight in one day than a 1000 mile drive. And I trust the autopilot on an aircraft a LOT more than I trust that self-driving gimmick on the Tesla and some of the other autonomous vehicles. Sure, the autopilot might not have any sort of collision avoidance in it, but the philosophy of "big sky, small plane" comes into play. Planes just don't fly close to each other normally whereas cars by their very nature get really close to each other. :)

And then I have motorcycles, some of which I seldom ride because every time I want to ride them, the carbs need cleaning thanks to the damn ethanol that the contaminate our fuel supply with these days. My Harley has fuel injection and it doesn't care about ethanol -- it starts up every time without a problem.
Good Deal
We cant stay young forever but enjoy the time we have
 

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NavyVet1959

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Good Deal
We cant stay young forever but enjoy the time we have
"We come into this world bald, drooling, and incontinent... And we leave the same way..."
 

Shooting or Jeeping

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I realize this has been back and forth for a while, but honestly- mine rarely comes on. I drive in stop and go traffic in DFW and I think maybe once a day it pops on. I’ve just let off of the brake pedal enough that it doesn’t kick on. I can make it happen at any time I want by mashing the pedal at a stop, but if you have less rigor in your foot- no ESS.
 

NavyVet1959

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I realize this has been back and forth for a while, but honestly- mine rarely comes on. I drive in stop and go traffic in DFW and I think maybe once a day it pops on. I’ve just let off of the brake pedal enough that it doesn’t kick on. I can make it happen at any time I want by mashing the pedal at a stop, but if you have less rigor in your foot- no ESS.
For some people, once each day is probably too much.

Now, when I test drove a manual JL "Sport" model before ordering mine, I don't remember the auto-stop-start happening. I'm pretty sure the female salesperson did not turn it off because I had the key and I had to unlock the door on my side with the key and then reach over to her side to unlock it so she could get in. She did not know how to drive a manual and was not very familiar with the JLs. I would have noticed if she had reached over and changed the ESS mode and I'm pretty sure that I didn't change it. I'm pretty sure that I fully stopped multiple times, but it's entirely possible that I did not need to aggressively activate the brake since I tend to leave enough room between myself and the car in front of me that I don't have to aggressively brake. I also used this test drive to verify that it is possible to "bump start" the Jeep without putting the start button in the START position.

I'll be glad when my JL comes in so that I can further test this "feature" to see just how irritating it might be.
 

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Now, when I test drove a manual JL "Sport" model before ordering mine, I don't remember the auto-stop-start happening.
ESS isn't operational with a manual unless (1) the engine is fully warmed up, (2) the transmission is in neutral and the clutch is released, (3) the transfer case is not in 4L, (4) the AC is not on max.

ESS isn't a big deal, and the critics are picking seeds out of cowpies.
 

NavyVet1959

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ESS isn't operational with a manual unless (1) the engine is fully warmed up, (2) the transmission is in neutral and the clutch is released, (3) the transfer case is not in 4L, (4) the AC is not on max.

ESS isn't a big deal, and the critics are picking seeds out of cowpies.
Well, I see quite a few people on the web complaining about the ESS system in various types of vehicles, so apparently it is really irritating to some people out there. I think it would have been nice if the car manufacturers had made the systems so that they used a latching type of enable switch that would thus "remember" where it was last set OR if they insisted on using the momentary contact switches like Jeep uses, they could have tied it to the ID associated with the fob to make it so that the system remembers it for each driver (actually, each fob). The problem though is that since they now have keyless start stop, it's entirely possible for there to be multiiple key fobs in the vehicle at the same time and the system would not know which one to use to set the default condition. My wife's BMW has this sort of electronic "key" that you put in the dash and then press the start button and it remembers certain things (e.g. seat position, IIRC) based on which "key" is in the slot (or maybe it's which key was used to unlock it). As such, it is not possible for it to mistakenly use one key's saved states for another key. But then again, I don't drive that vehicle enough to know what all it does save and what it doesn't.

The fact is, *some* people find it really irritating and do not like being forced to have a system that likely does not save any fuel on their type of driving since it doesn't match the EPA fuel economy test. The ESS system is just so that the manufacturer can game the fuel economy test and it is unlikely to achieve the same savings in the real world. Having a way around this system is no different than someone not liking the always on daytime running lights and installing a switch to be able to turn them off.
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