Off-roading with a manual transmission?

[DanW]

And I'll add this....Don't listen to people who don't own one who tell you you'll regret it. 3 years, 42k, and numerous traffic jams later, I'd do it all over again. And my JK, too. 13 years, 152k miles, and countless traffic jams and a heavier clutch, and all. But the JL is FAR better.

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[ThirtyOne]

And I'll add this....Don't listen to people who don't own one who tell you you'll regret it. 3 years, 42k, and numerous traffic jams later, I'd do it all over again. And my JK, too. 13 years, 152k miles, and countless traffic jams and a heavier clutch, and all. But the JL is FAR better.

Agreed. I just bought my second JLU after 49,000 miles. And it is another manual.

 

[JeepU4IA]

Agreed. I just bought my second JLU after 49,000 miles. And it is another manual.

Manuals. Get 'em while they're hot! (Pun intended.)

 

[Rubi6mt]

The JL auto is fantastic at what it is designed to do but left me bored and wanting. So I did the fantastically fiscally irresponsible thing and traded my 2020 sport Altitude auto for a 6 speed manual JLUR. Clutch and transmission are super easy in traffic, hills, offroad etc (having had several fox mustangs in my youth, the JL manual is cakewalk). Amazing what the jlur with the 4.10s and 4.1 transfer case can do in 4low with swaybar disconnected...nevermind engaging the lockers. Plus who can put a price on the plastered grin stuck on my face everytine I run the jeep through the gears ?

 

[Rodeoflyer]

Everything's been said already that i would have noted. I said a few vehicles ago that I'd never own another manual trans, then one of my Jeep nut friends had to root me on getting another one with the JL. I also went through auto trans rebuilds on both of my prior vehicles including the last one that I spent $7k upgraded with full sonnax HD internals, HP valve body, HD clutches and seals, HP pump, thermo bypass, etc. It will probably outlast me. I just really didn't want to go through that again. I figured by the time I needed a new clutch the aftermarket would have something available and they do with Centerforces nice option.

 

[bllprk]

My observations: I have a 2018 JLU Sport (MT) on 35's. I try to keep up with a JLUR (AT) on 37's who loves rock obstacles. Drummond, Windrock, Stoney Lonesome, Redbird ect... he can tackle most every trail except for the truly extreme (Gut Buster at Stoney). I think he may be able to take 15 at Windrock but that is what I am calling extreme.

With my stock jeep on 35's, it was extremely difficult to start and stop on an obstacle. (Holly Oaks style piles and logs and such) I smoked my clutch twice and got a warning on the dash saying its overheating and to let it cool. I couldn't go as slow as I needed to to feel in control but not have to take it out of gear. I have a hard time feeling this clutch. Engagement is confusing when using the hill assist as well. Plus, the rev-hang is horrible if you can't keep the skinny pedal steady.

After that experience I swapped my transfer case to a rubicon case and took my crawl ratio from 48 to 70. I will be heading up to Drummond to see how this does, but the plan is to re-gear to 4.56 or 4.88 in the fall to get the ratio to 93 or 100.

I also installed a bypass momentary switch on the clutch. It only works in 4low. But it allows me to start in gear. Here is a link to how it works.

I can't keep up 1:1 with my buddy, but my plan is to pick my line and let the jeep crawl up it.

 

[BobW]

30 years ago a 4-wheeler friend (Bronco auto ?) said "like sail v power boats".
I drive mine mostly for fun, so in-town traffic isn't a factor... if it were, an AT (like in my Ford dinkycar) would probably be better.

Offroad, as others have noted, the Rubicon 4:1 transfer case means you just let the clutch out in 1st and it crawls right up, no fussing. This was a delightful surprise compared to my old Cherokee.

OTH, I ski free-heel , so my endorsing MT might be suspect...

 

[bllprk]

Spent a week at Drummond Island.

Some notes:
The Rubicon TC was a massive help. Huge help. I made it up the most difficult obstacles. I do wish I had more crawl ratio and could go slower, but I pick a line and go for it. But it was night and day better than the 2.73. Best $1300 spent! Very capable.

Also, with the 4:1 it was so much easier to start while on the obstacle. I did not burn my clutch like I did with the 2.73. My clutch bypass button was not as needed as I thought.

I still would like to get lower gearing for the axles. You could really notice the lack of power in 1st gear 2hi. 3.45 with a MT with 35" tires was not good enough.

Youtube Drummond MT 3.6 3.45gears with Rubicon TC

 

[c20040215]

Spent a week at Drummond Island.

Some notes:
The Rubicon TC was a massive help. Huge help. I made it up the most difficult obstacles. I do wish I had more crawl ratio and could go slower, but I pick a line and go for it. But it was night and day better than the 2.73. Best $1300 spent! Very capable.

Also, with the 4:1 it was so much easier to start while on the obstacle. I did not burn my clutch like I did with the 2.73. My clutch bypass button was not as needed as I thought.

I still would like to get lower gearing for the axles. You could really notice the lack of power in 1st gear 2hi. 3.45 with a MT with 35" tires was not good enough.

Youtube Drummond MT 3.6 3.45gears with Rubicon TC

What is your source for the TC? $1300 isnt bad at all!

 

[beast40]

Just picked up my MT with new 5.13s installed. Completely different feel and perfect for 37s.

After the break in period I'll have it on the trails and expect excellent results.

 

[Toycrusher]

Just picked up my MT with new 5.13s installed. Completely different feel and perfect for 37s.

After the break in period I'll have it on the trails and expect excellent results.

Can't wait for feedback. Particularly, do some testing and let us know real-world economy in 4th 5th and 6th.

With my 4.10 gears and 37s, there is not a single speed or stretch of road I've come across where I did not get better fuel economy in 4th than either overdrive. Doesn't matter if I'm running 45 mph or 85 mph, my engine sucks more fuel in overdrive

 

[Jim1964]

I would like to hear from some MT drivers who operate in the mountains; how is the downhill engine braking, especially in low range? Does the engine remain at low idle coasting downhill?

A major irritation to me is the software for the auto. Coasting down it sets the idle speed up to around 2200 and then it surges between 2200-2500 , just as if you were tapping on the accelerator.

This 2L auto is great on the climbs but it sucks on descent.

 

[6.2Blazer]

There is a lot of personal preference in regards to wanting a manual or automatic. As somebody who learned how to drive a manual and started off-roading with one, I greatly prefer and automatic when off-road now. Not saying I'm the foremost expert off-roader by any means but have been building off-road rigs and going on long trips to multiple states for 25 years. Over that time I've been able to see a lot of different setups and have seen many people's rigs evolve over the years. Most of the rigs I wheel with are highly customized and many built from the ground up (up to full tube rock crawlers)

I don't think anybody can argue that an auto trans is much easier off-road, but I also think an auto has more advantages off-road than a manual. The biggest advantage of an auto, IMO, is a much broader range of available wheel speed when you are on an obstacle. The torque converter basically gives a variable gear ratio between starting from a start and almost locking up, meaning if you start on an obstacle that requires a short section of low gear crawling and than another area that needs wheel speed you just press the gas pedal harder and get some pretty good wheel speed. With an auto you can also have it shift to a higher gear in a middle of the obstacle for even more wheel speed. With a manual if you need the lowest gear to start out with on an obstacle you are stuck in that low gear and can't get much wheel speed. It's really hard to be spinning up a hill and grab another gear in a manual without losing momentum or stalling out the engine. I know people will say you should slowly crawl everything, but I will say that crawling doesn't work in a lot of situations and especially in certain parts of the country. Midwest to southeast off-road typically has a lot of loose and slick terrain and crawling simply does not work.......... I will also say that the vast majority of hardcore or "pro" off-road rigs use automatics. Go look at the rock bouncer competitions, King of the Hammers, or even desert racing trucks and show me how many of those use manual trans. Of the people I ride with automatics are at least 10:1 compared to manual transmissions, and I know many long-time off-roaders that have switched from manual to auto over the years....but don't know anybody that went from an auto to a manual.

 

[AcesandEights]

As previously stated, it's personal preference. Some of us like a challenge and I think it's hard to argue that an auto isn't easier. That's the point for some of us though. We like doing it the hard way, not because we're hard headed, but because anyone can take the easy way, but there is something to be gained from taking the harder way. It's like taking the harder line, or taking the harder climb, or taking the bigger challenge. There's satisfaction in getting there without the ease or comfort afforded by the "auto". It's akin to the trip being the point, not the destination.

 

[beast40]

I personally am the opposite. While I have no intentions of ever doing king of the hammers or any other competition, I greatly prefer a manual. Competitors need to have every advantage and look at things from those optics.

My TJ was a 5 speed for most of its life. When I swapped in the v8 I also went with an auto. It really lost its luster around that time and I blame the auto for most of it.

Everything you said is spot on regarding performance differences but a manual is just more fun for some of us and this is a hobby that should be fun.

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