Most capable Rubicon?

[aldo98229]

I’ve seen guys muscle their way through every obstacle. That’s always one approach. But I’ve noticed that usually the best approach involves picking your lines well, then applying technique and finesse.

In fact, the same is true of about every activity out there.

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[aldo98229]

Your poll is missing one option: A Bronco Baywatch!

What? That is not the correct name?

Bronco Boywatch...?

Sorry. My bad. The Bronco Sasquatch!

 

[Zandcwhite]

Isn't gravity what increases traction?

Carry 50 lbs up the stairs, now carry 500lbs up the stairs. More work is more work, requiring more traction.

 

[AnnDee4444]

Until the mid-2000 there was no "long" wheelbase Jeep

Not long, but longer.

Doesn't the additional weight add to the traction? Wouldn't the heavier engines provide a traction advantage, similar to putting weight in the bed of a pick up in the winter?

True, weight will generally give more traction. However when you're coming down a hill (possibly in in snow), the weight adds inertia which requires more traction to stop.

 

[AnnDee4444]

Somewhat related

I wouldn't trust the numbers above about 8" of lift on this chart though...

 

[HungryHound]

Interesting the 392 was an option but not the diesel or 4xe. Banging around on boulders out west this summer had me worried about the exposed oil pan on the 2.0T, then I realized I could drive out with no oil by running only the electrics on the 4xe.

Then I started thinking about water crossings. The Battery and electronics are sealed well in this system too. Theoretically, you could cut the engine and cross deeper than suggested water in electric mode without the need for a snorkel. Of course, you'd need to drain the airbox before restarting the engine and it's not designed for this, but with a little extra engineering, Jeep could exploit the fact that there's two powerplants in the 4xe.

 

[entropy]

As someone that has spent time on the Hammer trails, John Bull and most of the So Calif trails, I bought a JLR, not a JLUR. I haven't been in So Cal in a long time, but I never saw a stretched TJ, LJ or four-door out there, even when people were building them. I'm sure it's different now, but I'm not sure how much.

Yeah I see a lot of 2 doors in Big Bear.

 

[AcesandEights]

Carry 50 lbs up the stairs, now carry 500lbs up the stairs. More work is more work, requiring more traction.

I'm not sure that even makes any sense. Don't you have more traction carrying 500 lbs up the stairs?

 

[entropy]

Isn't gravity what increases traction?

weight is a force acting on an object due to gravity. Gravity pulls to the center of the earth. Weight is calculated as the gravity of earth times the mass of the object. Increasing mass increases weight. When you are on flat terrain the weight vector points perpendicular to the vehicle. When you are climbing, the weight vector DOES NOT point perpendicular to the vehicle. When climbing you are trying to fight that force, it is going to want to roll you backwards. Weight does NOT help with traction while off-roading. This is the reason you can't drive a jeep up a wall, no matter how many bag of sands you have in the trunk.

The reason why adding sandbags to a truckbed helps a bit is because trucks tend to be RWD, they are heavier up front and designed to carry weight in the bed. So having most of the weight up front while your rear tires are trying to provide traction doesn't help. This also works best on flat terrain. If your truck is 4WD, or a Jeep. Just turn 4WD and lower the PSI of your tires instead of messing with sand bags.

Professional cyclists are very skinny, they get themselves in crazy diets to stay as light as possible and use very light carbon fiber bikes. I am talking about the ones doing cross country stuff, that need to climb up steep roads. You don't see cyclists at mcdonalds every day trying to get as fat as possible to increase traction. And you don't see the skinny guys losing traction either.

This is like elementary physics.

 

[AcesandEights]

Of course gravity pulls to the center of the earth, but it doesn't just work in our favor on flat ground, does it?

Those cyclists are not losing traction at the tires so there is no need for a heavier bike/cyclist. There is a reason cyclists shift their weight, isn't there? Isn't there a reason someone in a sidecar, or on a motorcycle shifts their weight? If there is less weight, isn't there less traction, which is unimportant until you "lose" traction? Isn't there an angle at which that weight becomes lifting and there is a point where the force of lifting, or not, is the same as losing traction? Obstacles are not all walls at 90-degrees but most are somewhere between zero and another number less than 90-degrees.

Where there is less gravity, lets say the moon, don't you need to add weight to increase traction?

 

[AcesandEights]

I just borrowed the info below from a Physics and Natural Laws of Driving website:

" Traction is the result of friction between the road and your tires caused by the weight (gravity effect) of the car pushing the tires to the road due to gravity. "

"Friction is a force caused by the contact of one surface on another."

"Friction is increased by the weight of your vehicle."

Basically, increasing the weight of your vehicle causes greater friction, which is traction.

Bottom line, the JLR is the best, because it's what I have.

 

[entropy]

I just borrowed the info below from a Physics and Natural Laws of Driving website:

" Traction is the result of friction between the road and your tires caused by the weight (gravity effect) of the car pushing the tires to the road due to gravity. "

"Friction is a force caused by the contact of one surface on another."

"Friction is increased by the weight of your vehicle."

Basically, increasing the weight of your vehicle causes greater friction, which is traction.

Bottom line, the JLR is the best, because it's what I have.

No. you got it wrong. read my post again. I have both an undergraduate and grad degree in mech. engineering. You are not thinking of weight as a force vector. I simplified this whole thing a bit, you are oversimplifying it so much that it is wrong.

Friction is also a force vector. that points parallel to the surface and opposite to direction of travel. It is equal to the normal force times the friction constant which depends on the road, tires, treads, etc... The normal force is equal to the weight force in a flat road, but it DECREASES as you start going up a hill.

 

[AcesandEights]

But we're not just on a flat road, and we have multiple tires, some connected to the other and we also have travel/speed/velocity, in fact that's why most trails were engineered with banks and slopes and curves, so it's not just one force vector, so the JLR is still the most capable.

 

[entropy]

But we're not just on a flat road, and we have multiple tires, some connected to the other and we also have travel/speed/velocity, so it's not just one force vector, so the JLR is still the most capable.

Huh?

 

[Zandcwhite]

Somewhat related

I wouldn't trust the numbers above about 8" of lift on this chart though...

Our resident statistician has a chart for everything. According to this chart, our jlur with 4" lift and 37's has ~35⁰ breakover angle. A JLR on 35's with 1.5" lift will have the same breakover angle. It will also have much worse approach and departure angles, water fording ability, and ground clearance. Even though the JL is lower, it is still less stable in my experience having wheeled both types of builds. It wins in maneuverability hands down but that is about it.

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