Moab Downfall

[guarnibl]

Moab is on my bucket list. I think what we really need is a greater ratio of mall crawlers to real off-roaders so we can still have continued development of the wrangler and great aftermarket support but no actual traffic on the trails...

Careful what you wish for; we'll end up with Wranglers built with no offroad tested parts =)

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[Tank the Jeep]

Thank you for your service.

I’ve never been to Moab, so take what I say with a grain of salt. We have been to Uwharrie twice this season. The trails were crowded. However, I will report that I saw no ill tempers and everyone was generally nice. We saw people trying to take an unmodified Land Rover Discovery on highway tires up one of the hardest trails. I wasn’t going well for him. But the discovery was entertaining. Still, I found everyone to be helpful.
Hopefully your last trip to Moab was during a full moon.

 

[Dgr401]

Sorry to hear of your experience at MOAB. It is not just off roading that has problems. I try to do as much surf fishing as possible but this year has been a difficult year. Places that normally would see 5-10 people fishing now have over 30 quite often. No parking, trash, ignorant anglers, it is sad to see. I have seen fist fights, theft, etc. It is not pretty. One of my biggest concerns is the loss of access, it has started already and once it is gone it will never come back. There are 2 places that I have fished for over 50 years that have the parking blocked off by large boulders. Local residents complaining of all night noise and using their lawns for port-a-johns. That has never happend before. The new breed of fishermen do not care, they think it is all about them. I cannot wait for 2020 to end. I hope the issues get resolved for you, it is not fun.

 

[nostatic]

Back in the late 80's when I was riding/racing bicycles, the slick rock at Moab started becoming a popular destination. Mountain bikers were met with pushback from hikers and equestrians - same as in Marin and Angeles NF. Had plenty of civil interactions with hikers back then, but a few hostile ones and typically the horse folks held cyclists in disdain no matter how polite or thoughtful we were. At some point hikers were booby-trapping trails in Marin with barbed wire. It was ugly.

Point being, no matter how long you've been using a trail, someone else has been there longer and probably feels they're more entitled to the area. Until you go back far enough and they've since died off. That's no excuse for poor trail etiquette, but people being jerks on the trail isn't a new phenomenon. Circumstances have just upped the ante and forced higher density, making things worse.

At some point folks will get tired of their new toys and the virus will calm down and hopefully society can return to a bit more civil discourse.

Then again, probably not...

 

[JeepColorado]

Moab is still incredible!!! Yes, it's gotten more crowded, but it's also gotten more services and better restaurants etc.. everything that comes with having the people ($) to support it. It's still some of the most amazing off-roading you can find concentrated in any one place in North America and probably the planet. I was there for the entire month of August- ran Hells Revenge, Fins and Things, Onion Creek, Gemini, etc... saw very few people.

I think COVID fatigue is pushing people outdoors- it's like going to a Gym the first 2 weeks after New Years- it's always slammed, by Feb the place is empty again.

Unfortunate that you had that experience- I wouldn't let a few yahoo's on a bad trip ruin a great place for me!!!

 

[Notorious]

him tell me not to come to Utah and me telling him I was a disabled Nam vet and I’ll go any f...ing place I wish,

Thank you for your service.

There is no excuse for rude and or disrespectful behavior. Lockdown has really messed with some people’s heads, some are more unhinged than others.

I advise you to stick to the route leading to your destination. On the trail, if you can help it, try not to interact with people who you don’t know, let alone get into altercations.

 

[aldo98229]

Curious: how did you get to BC from WA when the border is closed? I also want to go to ON from NY but the border closure gets to me and I will like to go North for a weekend.

Canada's COVID border restrictions have a "Family Reunification" clause for Canadians living in the US. I still had to quarantine for 2 weeks, though.

 

[JimLee]

Back in the late 80's when I was riding/racing bicycles, the slick rock at Moab started becoming a popular destination. Mountain bikers were met with pushback from hikers and equestrians - same as in Marin and Angeles NF. Had plenty of civil interactions with hikers back then, but a few hostile ones and typically the horse folks held cyclists in disdain no matter how polite or thoughtful we were. At some point hikers were booby-trapping trails in Marin with barbed wire. It was ugly.

Point being, no matter how long you've been using a trail, someone else has been there longer and probably feels they're more entitled to the area. Until you go back far enough and they've since died off. That's no excuse for poor trail etiquette, but people being jerks on the trail isn't a new phenomenon. Circumstances have just upped the ante and forced higher density, making things worse.

At some point folks will get tired of their new toys and the virus will calm down and hopefully society can return to a bit more civil discourse.

Then again, probably not...

Its funny here, the hikers have the ear of politicians because they approach things with the "save the environment" schtick and get all access to so called public lands closed to everyone but themselves. But if you travel the trails they now rule there is garbage everywhere and they leave huge messes where they camp over and over again in groups. They never cared about the environment to begin with, at least alot of them didn't, they just wanted exclusive access. They are no different than any other group, some good ones and some assholes, its just a shame how much pull they have with politicians over and above people who want to recreate differently.

 

[Windshieldfarmer]

I’ve not been to Moab but I go to Ouray once per year and other trails in Colorado when possible (twice this summer). Yes there are plenty of asshats but most off-roaders I’ve encountered have been polite during the last several years. I normally drive my Jeep on the trails but last summer spent several days on dirt bikes with others. One of the dirt bikes broke down and it was a friendly wrangler driver who helped us out. All we can do is lead by example...and hope the stupid virus goes away....and anger subsides.

 

[nostatic]

Its funny here, the hikers have the ear of politicians because they approach things with the "save the environment" schtick and get all access to so called public lands closed to everyone but themselves. But if you travel the trails they now rule there is garbage everywhere and they leave huge messes where they camp over and over again in groups. They never cared about the environment to begin with, at least alot of them didn't, they just wanted exclusive access. They are no different than any other group, some good ones and some assholes, its just a shame how much pull they have with politicians over and above people who want to recreate differently.

In the Angeles back in the day, the political clout was strongest with the equestrians as they tended to be upper income and fairly connected. If you monitor the trails though, a horse can cause way more damage than a responsibly ridden bike - just physics. Part of the problem is the guys who don't ride responsibly, instead locking up everywhere, doing drop off rides (geez - be a man and ride uphill for gawdsake).

Last week I testified during the public comment section of the California Coastal Commission hearing on the topic of Oceano Dunes OHV area. The current plan is to permanently close it within 5 years, and even now it remains closed due to Covid (which is a whole 'nother set of BS - I can see limiting camping but it is closed to all vehicles). I sat through about an hour of people having their either 2 or 1 minute of say. Heated opinions on both sides of the issue. The "close it forever" were by and large locals who want a quiet beach to themselves. Never mind that vehicles have been using Oceano dunes for over 100 years - way before any of them moved there.

The only argument that I think holds water was the local Chumash representative who said their tribe has used the land for thousands of years and there are a number of sacred sites within the area. They are the true "locals." I'd be fine with returning it - just open another section of dunes. But logic and government don't really go well together.

 

[oceanblue2019]

I’ve been coming to Moab for 12 year now and stayed for a month every time so I think I have a well based opinion. Moab is going through a massive and destructive change. We used to be able to drive through a nice town with mostly respectful residents and vacationing jeep people. Now it is entirely different with the residents and grocery people give off an attitude of almost loathing, and I don’t blame them. The new breed of razor drivers, dirt bike drivers and inexperienced Jeepers have turned this town into a madhouse where it seems everybody is only out to please themselves with a total disregard for the town , the residents, the trails, or other people on the trails. The town and numbers of hotels and condos have grown exponentially. All growth is not bad but this growth is beyond ludicrous ! It has ruined this experience for all parties. Last week we went up Bull Canyon for a late picnic and some adult beverages ( one beer each) and watch the stars and come down the trail at about midnight , we have done this almost every year. This time we encountered in three locations people parked and camping on the side of the trail and on the hill of Gemini brides trail plainly marked NO camping. Very few razor or dirt bike people gave hand signals as to the number of people in there group. On top of that some fool decided to make Hell Revenge a two way trail, if you have driven that you can imagine how terrible that is coupled with new inexperienced self serving drivers. Then there are the “professional “ tour guides we encountered parked in the center of intersection leading to the river overlook and the continuation of Hell’s Revenge, out of their Jeep’s talking to their tour and blocking our ride and paying no attention to us. After a minute or so I asked if they were going to have a lunch there or move on , that escalated to a rude conversation on both sides culminating into him tell me not to come to Utah and me telling him I was a disabled Nam vet and I’ll go any f...ing place I wish, I won’t say their company name but they drove white Jeeps with their logo on the doors. They moved and we drove on. We did meet a few nice jeepers on Hell Revenge and explained some of the trail to them, but for the most part the dirt bikers and razor drivers were rude even though we waved them passed us when practical, rude like dusting us at high speed or nor signaling know many in their group. Then there is just the number of people here, we have noticed considerable increases over the years with this virus year being the worst. Our neighbor in our campground wasn’t allowed into Arches due to overcrowding. We have encounter backups on trails where in the past we could travel and see only one or two others on the trail the entire day. Sorry for the long post but I had to opine about what I see as the ruination of Moab!

Thanks for your service.

Sadly this is a scene playing out at many recreational areas across the country. Be it off road parks, RV parks, campgrounds, hiking areas.

We have many self-absorbed assholes who do not consider those around them or preserving the area for others. It is all about them. Sadly the next generation growing up will be similar.

 

[Kluk Ztopolovky]

I’ve been coming to Moab for 12 year now and stayed for a month every time so I think I have a well based opinion. Moab is going through a massive and destructive change. We used to be able to drive through a nice town with mostly respectful residents and vacationing jeep people. Now it is entirely different with the residents and grocery people give off an attitude of almost loathing, and I don’t blame them. The new breed of razor drivers, dirt bike drivers and inexperienced Jeepers have turned this town into a madhouse where it seems everybody is only out to please themselves with a total disregard for the town , the residents, the trails, or other people on the trails. The town and numbers of hotels and condos have grown exponentially. All growth is not bad but this growth is beyond ludicrous ! It has ruined this experience for all parties. Last week we went up Bull Canyon for a late picnic and some adult beverages ( one beer each) and watch the stars and come down the trail at about midnight , we have done this almost every year. This time we encountered in three locations people parked and camping on the side of the trail and on the hill of Gemini brides trail plainly marked NO camping. Very few razor or dirt bike people gave hand signals as to the number of people in there group. On top of that some fool decided to make Hell Revenge a two way trail, if you have driven that you can imagine how terrible that is coupled with new inexperienced self serving drivers. Then there are the “professional “ tour guides we encountered parked in the center of intersection leading to the river overlook and the continuation of Hell’s Revenge, out of their Jeep’s talking to their tour and blocking our ride and paying no attention to us. After a minute or so I asked if they were going to have a lunch there or move on , that escalated to a rude conversation on both sides culminating into him tell me not to come to Utah and me telling him I was a disabled Nam vet and I’ll go any f...ing place I wish, I won’t say their company name but they drove white Jeeps with their logo on the doors. They moved and we drove on. We did meet a few nice jeepers on Hell Revenge and explained some of the trail to them, but for the most part the dirt bikers and razor drivers were rude even though we waved them passed us when practical, rude like dusting us at high speed or nor signaling know many in their group. Then there is just the number of people here, we have noticed considerable increases over the years with this virus year being the worst. Our neighbor in our campground wasn’t allowed into Arches due to overcrowding. We have encounter backups on trails where in the past we could travel and see only one or two others on the trail the entire day. Sorry for the long post but I had to opine about what I see as the ruination of Moab!

I did visit couple of years ago and construction sites were enveloping the town on all sides and all that developement of course hikes up prices of everything else around Moab .I think to rent a wrangler for a day was around 300$ so we just hiked and luckily there are some of the most spectacular hiking trails all over that place.

 

[golong27]

I'll be in Moab later this week. I do know that this week is fall break for AZ and UT schools so that could have been part of the issue. I was in the mountains between Silverton and Ouray last weekend and didn't have any issues with the dirt bikes or razr drivers - and there were definitely inexperienced jeepers out there too. I had just come into Telluride from imogene when the ambulances were going through town for the rollover on black bear.

 

[Twojayhawks]

I’ve been coming to Moab for 12 year now and stayed for a month every time so I think I have a well based opinion. Moab is going through a massive and destructive change. We used to be able to drive through a nice town with mostly respectful residents and vacationing jeep people. Now it is entirely different with the residents and grocery people give off an attitude of almost loathing, and I don’t blame them. The new breed of razor drivers, dirt bike drivers and inexperienced Jeepers have turned this town into a madhouse where it seems everybody is only out to please themselves with a total disregard for the town , the residents, the trails, or other people on the trails. The town and numbers of hotels and condos have grown exponentially. All growth is not bad but this growth is beyond ludicrous ! It has ruined this experience for all parties. Last week we went up Bull Canyon for a late picnic and some adult beverages ( one beer each) and watch the stars and come down the trail at about midnight , we have done this almost every year. This time we encountered in three locations people parked and camping on the side of the trail and on the hill of Gemini brides trail plainly marked NO camping. Very few razor or dirt bike people gave hand signals as to the number of people in there group. On top of that some fool decided to make Hell Revenge a two way trail, if you have driven that you can imagine how terrible that is coupled with new inexperienced self serving drivers. Then there are the “professional “ tour guides we encountered parked in the center of intersection leading to the river overlook and the continuation of Hell’s Revenge, out of their Jeep’s talking to their tour and blocking our ride and paying no attention to us. After a minute or so I asked if they were going to have a lunch there or move on , that escalated to a rude conversation on both sides culminating into him tell me not to come to Utah and me telling him I was a disabled Nam vet and I’ll go any f...ing place I wish, I won’t say their company name but they drove white Jeeps with their logo on the doors. They moved and we drove on. We did meet a few nice jeepers on Hell Revenge and explained some of the trail to them, but for the most part the dirt bikers and razor drivers were rude even though we waved them passed us when practical, rude like dusting us at high speed or nor signaling know many in their group. Then there is just the number of people here, we have noticed considerable increases over the years with this virus year being the worst. Our neighbor in our campground wasn’t allowed into Arches due to overcrowding. We have encounter backups on trails where in the past we could travel and see only one or two others on the trail the entire day. Sorry for the long post but I had to opine about what I see as the ruination of Moab!

This is not unique to Moab at all. We have been coming to that area for almost ten years & it's popularity has surged. This has gone hand in hand with the rise in camping, hiking, RVing, etc. 2020 pushed it over the top. Everyone has migrated to what they perceive as activities to get away & get their social distance on. Have you been to any of the national parks lately? Chocked full of people and unfortunately there are some rude, selfish, idiots mixed in. We also travel in a motorhome & don't go anywhere these days without checking for availability as that too is crazy popular too.

 

[72Blazer]

I was there in July and can see how the growth could bring about more problems. On Hell’s Revenge, we had one RZR trying to come up the one way direction while we were stopped. We stayed on the trail and he cut around us. The few people we did encounter on the trails were pleasant.

In the San Juan’s, we ran into all kinds of wheelers and overall had great interactions with everyone. Lots of campers everywhere though. Two particular events did piss me off though. One we were working our way through Engineer and enjoying the views when a RZR caught up to us. He was riding my ass for about 5 minutes when I called it into our group of three to pull off and let him by. He sped thru without any kind of thanks. Yeah GFY too buddy. The other We were ascending Imogene Pass and had passed a group of Jeeps that were off to the side just messing around when we hit a big group of vehicles descending. We finally worked it out to where we could squeeze through and we realized we had a group of about 15+ jeeps behind us. Once we cleared the traffic jam, we noticed a group of jeeps working its way quickly to catch up to us. I was in the middle of the group of three and could see the other group seemed to be training for King of the Hammers by the way they were running the trail. My buddy in the rear pulled off finally when we hit a clearing so we also decided to pull off as the ass riding was getting annoying. As the group of 4 JT trucks passed us without a single wave (minus the rear most grey JT that seemed a little embarrassed by the trail etiquette) we realized it was the Rebel Offroad guys. They passed us and continued to pre run the trail in their trophy trucks. Later that evening, I was on IG and saw a post from their day stating something along the lines of “stop and enjoy the beautiful views inCO” or something to that effect. Yeah stop and enjoy only if you’re in the rebel offroad group. What a bunch of douchebags. I did comment on one of their other pictures that day with no response.


Edit: got lost in my rant. But I think the rampant people going outdoors right now is happening everywhere. Our local beaches have been packed to the gill especially while we still have hot weather.

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