Moab Downfall

Fredski007

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I’ve been coming to Moab for 12 year now and stayed for a month every time so I think I have a well based opinion. Moab is going through a massive and destructive change. We used to be able to drive through a nice town with mostly respectful residents and vacationing jeep people. Now it is entirely different with the residents and grocery people give off an attitude of almost loathing, and I don’t blame them. The new breed of razor drivers, dirt bike drivers and inexperienced Jeepers have turned this town into a madhouse where it seems everybody is only out to please themselves with a total disregard for the town , the residents, the trails, or other people on the trails. The town and numbers of hotels and condos have grown exponentially. All growth is not bad but this growth is beyond ludicrous ! It has ruined this experience for all parties. Last week we went up Bull Canyon for a late picnic and some adult beverages ( one beer each) and watch the stars and come down the trail at about midnight , we have done this almost every year. This time we encountered in three locations people parked and camping on the side of the trail and on the hill of Gemini brides trail plainly marked NO camping. Very few razor or dirt bike people gave hand signals as to the number of people in there group. On top of that some fool decided to make Hell Revenge a two way trail, if you have driven that you can imagine how terrible that is coupled with new inexperienced self serving drivers. Then there are the “professional “ tour guides we encountered parked in the center of intersection leading to the river overlook and the continuation of Hell’s Revenge, out of their Jeep’s talking to their tour and blocking our ride and paying no attention to us. After a minute or so I asked if they were going to have a lunch there or move on , that escalated to a rude conversation on both sides culminating into him tell me not to come to Utah and me telling him I was a disabled Nam vet and I’ll go any f...ing place I wish, I won’t say their company name but they drove white Jeeps with their logo on the doors. They moved and we drove on. We did meet a few nice jeepers on Hell Revenge and explained some of the trail to them, but for the most part the dirt bikers and razor drivers were rude even though we waved them passed us when practical, rude like dusting us at high speed or nor signaling know many in their group. Then there is just the number of people here, we have noticed considerable increases over the years with this virus year being the worst. Our neighbor in our campground wasn’t allowed into Arches due to overcrowding. We have encounter backups on trails where in the past we could travel and see only one or two others on the trail the entire day. Sorry for the long post but I had to opine about what I see as the ruination of Moab!





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Mikester86

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Thank you for serving this great country in a way many will never!

I have never been to Moab, and have only heard great things about it. Sorry to hear it appears to be in a downward spiral at the moment. Hope that changes for the better sooner than later.
 

jeepster345

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Not just Moab, but the entire world. People have become so rude and awful. Always thinking about themselves and what's best for them, without seeing or thinking about the repercussions. We need a little more kindness and compassion in the world. :involve:
 

WAOLIFE

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I’ve been coming to Moab for 12 year now and stayed for a month every time so I think I have a well based opinion. Moab is going through a massive and destructive change. We used to be able to drive through a nice town with mostly respectful residents and vacationing jeep people. Now it is entirely different with the residents and grocery people give off an attitude of almost loathing, and I don’t blame them. The new breed of razor drivers, dirt bike drivers and inexperienced Jeepers have turned this town into a madhouse where it seems everybody is only out to please themselves with a total disregard for the town , the residents, the trails, or other people on the trails. The town and numbers of hotels and condos have grown exponentially. All growth is not bad but this growth is beyond ludicrous ! It has ruined this experience for all parties. Last week we went up Bull Canyon for a late picnic and some adult beverages ( one beer each) and watch the stars and come down the trail at about midnight , we have done this almost every year. This time we encountered in three locations people parked and camping on the side of the trail and on the hill of Gemini brides trail plainly marked NO camping. Very few razor or dirt bike people gave hand signals as to the number of people in there group. On top of that some fool decided to make Hell Revenge a two way trail, if you have driven that you can imagine how terrible that is coupled with new inexperienced self serving drivers. Then there are the “professional “ tour guides we encountered parked in the center of intersection leading to the river overlook and the continuation of Hell’s Revenge, out of their Jeep’s talking to their tour and blocking our ride and paying no attention to us. After a minute or so I asked if they were going to have a lunch there or move on , that escalated to a rude conversation on both sides culminating into him tell me not to come to Utah and me telling him I was a disabled Nam vet and I’ll go any f...ing place I wish, I won’t say their company name but they drove white Jeeps with their logo on the doors. They moved and we drove on. We did meet a few nice jeepers on Hell Revenge and explained some of the trail to them, but for the most part the dirt bikers and razor drivers were rude even though we waved them passed us when practical, rude like dusting us at high speed or nor signaling know many in their group. Then there is just the number of people here, we have noticed considerable increases over the years with this virus year being the worst. Our neighbor in our campground wasn’t allowed into Arches due to overcrowding. We have encounter backups on trails where in the past we could travel and see only one or two others on the trail the entire day. Sorry for the long post but I had to opine about what I see as the ruination of Moab!
Unfortunately, most RAZR and Bike peeps (and some Jeepers) I come across are the same way, I label them the same as the group of misfits in Mad Max.
 

JimLee

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I’ve been coming to Moab for 12 year now and stayed for a month every time so I think I have a well based opinion. Moab is going through a massive and destructive change. We used to be able to drive through a nice town with mostly respectful residents and vacationing jeep people. Now it is entirely different with the residents and grocery people give off an attitude of almost loathing, and I don’t blame them. The new breed of razor drivers, dirt bike drivers and inexperienced Jeepers have turned this town into a madhouse where it seems everybody is only out to please themselves with a total disregard for the town , the residents, the trails, or other people on the trails. The town and numbers of hotels and condos have grown exponentially. All growth is not bad but this growth is beyond ludicrous ! It has ruined this experience for all parties. Last week we went up Bull Canyon for a late picnic and some adult beverages ( one beer each) and watch the stars and come down the trail at about midnight , we have done this almost every year. This time we encountered in three locations people parked and camping on the side of the trail and on the hill of Gemini brides trail plainly marked NO camping. Very few razor or dirt bike people gave hand signals as to the number of people in there group. On top of that some fool decided to make Hell Revenge a two way trail, if you have driven that you can imagine how terrible that is coupled with new inexperienced self serving drivers. Then there are the “professional “ tour guides we encountered parked in the center of intersection leading to the river overlook and the continuation of Hell’s Revenge, out of their Jeep’s talking to their tour and blocking our ride and paying no attention to us. After a minute or so I asked if they were going to have a lunch there or move on , that escalated to a rude conversation on both sides culminating into him tell me not to come to Utah and me telling him I was a disabled Nam vet and I’ll go any f...ing place I wish, I won’t say their company name but they drove white Jeeps with their logo on the doors. They moved and we drove on. We did meet a few nice jeepers on Hell Revenge and explained some of the trail to them, but for the most part the dirt bikers and razor drivers were rude even though we waved them passed us when practical, rude like dusting us at high speed or nor signaling know many in their group. Then there is just the number of people here, we have noticed considerable increases over the years with this virus year being the worst. Our neighbor in our campground wasn’t allowed into Arches due to overcrowding. We have encounter backups on trails where in the past we could travel and see only one or two others on the trail the entire day. Sorry for the long post but I had to opine about what I see as the ruination of Moab!
There's a huge resurgence of offroading/ camping / overlanding in this country, pushed into overdrive as people try and escape insane lockdowns where they live. Your story is about the same I see everywhere people can go offroad legally, and increasingly illegally. Unfortunately I expect the problem to get worse followed by wide spread closures of off road accessible areas to all but hikers and horse back riders. They are designating areas in the west as "wilderness areas" faster than mapping software can keep up with.
 

JimLee

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Not just Moab, but the entire world. People have become so rude and awful. Always thinking about themselves and what's best for them, without seeing or thinking about the repercussions. We need a little more kindness and compassion in the world. :involve:
what-we-need-is-world-peace.jpg


Sorry dude, not realistic.
 
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Fredski007

Fredski007

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Meh, people have always been self interested. To me, there are too many thin skinned people who are concerned what everyone else is or should be doing (according to them of course).

People 'dusting' you? You're offroad...Newsflash: there's going to be dust. And I'd wager you were much slower moving traffic. Get over and let them pass. You'll likely never see them again. Much of the conflict is from someone who doesn't want to go faster, but doesn't want to eat the dust by letting someone pass...so they cause the issue. That's just as selfish as the person who wants to get by you....probably more so from a flow of traffic perspective.

Agree, people parking in the trail and not immediately moving their shit is a problem....just shows the lack of thought or consideration of others.

People breaking b/c they weren't set up to run the trail and then acting as a trail tampon for hours on end is another problem....but one that is going to happen occasionally regardless of how well someone is set up. When bad breaks occur or emergencies...sometimes it makes all the sense in the world to go back out the way you came in on a trail that is 'traditionally' run in one direction. I doubt you know the full story of why they were doing that on HR.

I do agree that the SXS group seem to be a lot less informed about trail etiquette. Here, in UT and CO, I've noticed that since they've gotten popular, there are a LOT more trail braids, particularly around harder, taller obstacles and those lead to trail closures.
Yes Jeep’s are slower then dirt bikes and razor type vehicles, however you would lose you wager about me slowing up traffic. This is our 3 rd rubicon and being a diesel it is more capable than the others, I have never held up others on trails where passing is possible, it just ticks me off when people pass with no regard to those they pass!
 

GearWhore

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I too have noticed Moab's decline over the last 10 years, especially. Town has just become overcrowded for its size. Used to be easy to roll down after work on a Friday and still find a campsite near town. Now you need to be there by Wednesday afternoon, if then. Friends that used to close their businesses in town for a few months every winter are now open year-round (for better and worse). Hard to fault the town, but I've certainly been finding alternatives as this Moab isn't the same place I fell in love with a couple decades ago.
 

Fsttanks

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We don’t go to Moab in the busy season because of the issues stated. We usually go in the middle of the hottest summer months. This keeps the folks without A/C off the trails most of the day.

The heat is no issue for us because we live in an area of the SouthWest that is hot as hell in the summer, so It just feels like being at home maybe a little cooler. LOL
 

aldo98229

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I was camping in BC, Canada, 10 days ago, and the amount of people out comping has exploded.

Due to this pandemic there are few other things people can do: there are no movie theaters, no live concerts, no standup comedy, no bars, no sports events, etc. And camping is relatively cheap, which is key if you lost your job.

Hopefully people go back to being couch potatoes once this pandemic is over...
 

Punjabi New Yorker

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I was camping in BC, Canada, 10 days ago, and the amount of people out comping has exploded.

Due to this pandemic there are few other things people can do: there are no movie theaters, no live concerts, no standup comedy, no bars, no sports events, etc. And camping is relatively cheap, which is key if you lost your job.

Hopefully people go back to being couch potatoes once this pandemic is over...
Curious: how did you get to BC from WA when the border is closed? I also want to go to ON from NY but the border closure gets to me and I will like to go North for a weekend.
 

guarnibl

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I’ve been coming to Moab for 12 year now and stayed for a month every time so I think I have a well based opinion. Moab is going through a massive and destructive change. We used to be able to drive through a nice town with mostly respectful residents and vacationing jeep people. Now it is entirely different with the residents and grocery people give off an attitude of almost loathing, and I don’t blame them. The new breed of razor drivers, dirt bike drivers and inexperienced Jeepers have turned this town into a madhouse where it seems everybody is only out to please themselves with a total disregard for the town , the residents, the trails, or other people on the trails. The town and numbers of hotels and condos have grown exponentially. All growth is not bad but this growth is beyond ludicrous ! It has ruined this experience for all parties. Last week we went up Bull Canyon for a late picnic and some adult beverages ( one beer each) and watch the stars and come down the trail at about midnight , we have done this almost every year. This time we encountered in three locations people parked and camping on the side of the trail and on the hill of Gemini brides trail plainly marked NO camping. Very few razor or dirt bike people gave hand signals as to the number of people in there group. On top of that some fool decided to make Hell Revenge a two way trail, if you have driven that you can imagine how terrible that is coupled with new inexperienced self serving drivers. Then there are the “professional “ tour guides we encountered parked in the center of intersection leading to the river overlook and the continuation of Hell’s Revenge, out of their Jeep’s talking to their tour and blocking our ride and paying no attention to us. After a minute or so I asked if they were going to have a lunch there or move on , that escalated to a rude conversation on both sides culminating into him tell me not to come to Utah and me telling him I was a disabled Nam vet and I’ll go any f...ing place I wish, I won’t say their company name but they drove white Jeeps with their logo on the doors. They moved and we drove on. We did meet a few nice jeepers on Hell Revenge and explained some of the trail to them, but for the most part the dirt bikers and razor drivers were rude even though we waved them passed us when practical, rude like dusting us at high speed or nor signaling know many in their group. Then there is just the number of people here, we have noticed considerable increases over the years with this virus year being the worst. Our neighbor in our campground wasn’t allowed into Arches due to overcrowding. We have encounter backups on trails where in the past we could travel and see only one or two others on the trail the entire day. Sorry for the long post but I had to opine about what I see as the ruination of Moab!
First and foremost -- thank you for your service.

I've been going to Moab since 2009, so I suppose somewhat of a similar amount of time as you. This has typically been at least 2-3 weeks a year, at a minimum, both during and outside of EJS. Believe it or not -- a lot of the people said things have gotten significantly better in this span of time. It used to be comparable to Lake Havasu. The amount of lodging has helped in some ways (less illegal camping), hurt in others (affordability, overcrowding).

What you're seeing is the result of the pandemic and the massive influx of people into rural areas because we're seeing Covid fatigue (not that it's an excuse; but I think that's the cause). My $0.02. Apologies you had to experience this :(

Also, Razr's are always trouble from what I've seen. Nearly got hit by one almost every trip.
 

bilcol81

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We've been to Moab many times and agree that it has become quite overcrowded; Even in the summer months.
While on the trail in Silverton a few years ago nearing a narrow turn we stopped to let oncoming Razrs pass before entering the turn. The Razr behind us sped up and passed us nearly causing a head on collision.
 

Toycrusher

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Moab is on my bucket list. I think what we really need is a greater ratio of mall crawlers to real off-roaders so we can still have continued development of the wrangler and great aftermarket support but no actual traffic on the trails... :LOL:
 

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