Maximus 3 Tow Loops

[Redbaron73]

I have been watching this thread for a while. In fact, it motivated me to join the board. I have been towing Jeeps for 20 years and have mashed and bent my share of hitches and other bits and pieces.

I want to add my point of view to the heap already presented.

First let’s clear up some definitions. The broken bits of light metal do not belong to the vehicle frame. The primary function is to serve as mounting for the front skid plate and possibly a few other items of no import here. They suffer because Jeep decided they should be mounted to the front part of the frame rails (which flex) and a section cross member which does not.

Prior versions of the JL were identical to the JK and no such structural cross contamination existed here. The frame was constructed to be crushable and was free to flex. The tow loop for this model JL was connected to the frame by fabricated double clamps and has proved to be trouble free.

This shortcut by Jeep induced the loop manufacturer to attach his product to the same place as previous versions that proved successful. Assuming (poor move) that Jeep was infallible, and could be trusted as before.

It would be difficult to foresee this structural conflict without specific training or previous experience.

What makes this example so appealing to the lynch mob mentality is ignorance of what broke. They should be more concerned of the evidence of poor / no maintenance and of that broken stud on the back of the OEM recovery hook. Unlikely to be over stressed by anything other than being over torqued!

From experience I know that the fasteners must be properly torqued and properly lock tited with RED locktite. Absolute necessity.

This will pass as no one has been hurt, nor likely to be. Will the company make it up to those who “suffered damage”? I doubt many did, and if they did, they should be able to verify proper maintenance. Their lawyers know best.

I drive aggressively in the Sierra Nevada and Rocky mountains and panic/abrupt braking is common daily. I do not flat tow on rough, or washboard roads. I have suffered no damage from the product.


Phil

Let's not forget that maximus 3 is an ENGINEERING firm.

This means that they have an insurance policy to cover them, as required by the state board of engineering. It is similar to an E&O or malpractice insurance policy.

They are not a fabricator.

I have attached their statement here. Also quoting the text of that statement.

MAXIMUS-3 is a premier Jeep Wrangler product design, engineering and manufacturing company based in Detroit, Michigan. Being in the Motor City gives us a powerful advantage as affords us abundant access to the best automotive suppliers and manufacturing resources. We work with Detroit based companies to create unique design solutions and develop high quality complementing products for the Jeep Wrangler market that sets new bench marks and standards of excellence. MAXIMUS-3 products are designed and engineered using state-of-the-art design tools/software and technology. However, it’s through our combined experience, skills and creative philosophy that we can offer our clients, and partners, the unique, desirable and high-quality products and solutions. Our design and engineering team combines strong management experience, creative skills and real-world knowledge to deliver true innovations that solve design and engineering challenges with a hands-on approach. We are very passionate about what we do and are constantly searching for new ways and ideas to bring excitement, emotions, reliability and high satisfaction with all our products and services. Through hard work and our ability to be inspired by our customers we can develop new product ideas and create new openings in the industry. Our technical team is constantly engaged with the Jeep community which allows open exchange of ideas and concepts to address the needs of real Jeep enthusiasts. Our engineering design philosophy are based on experience, understanding of materials and forms; creative thinking and problem-solving techniques; styling and function; simplicity and minimalistic approach as our guiding principles. Our products and components are carefully analyzed, tested and evaluated to provide optimal quality and product reliability. This philosophy is used throughout the manufacturing process, suppliers and materials selection. MAXIMUS-3 product engineering, workmanship and quality is unmatched in the industry. In simple words, our products are “top notch”. Our target end consumers often understand the concept of quality, exclusivity and customization, and are willing to pay a fair price for a superior product.

Clearly this is a design error. That is why they have insurance to cover this. No need for lawyers. A simple phone call should be all that it takes.

I expect to have all of my details in the next 3 weeks, and will start the claim process with maximus 3 at that time.

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[AnnDee4444]

Prior versions of the JL were identical to the JK and no such structural cross contamination existed here. The frame was constructed to be crushable and was free to flex. The tow loop for this model JL was connected to the frame by fabricated double clamps and has proved to be trouble free.

This brings up an interesting point: when I mounted my Maximus-3 winch plate on my 2018 JL, the instructions were pretty off. I even made a post about it, and Maximus-3 responded:

UPDATE: FCA has made some changes to the JL/JLU (the skid plate bracket being one of them) Their changes have prompted Maximus-3 to make some revisions to our JL Winch Plate.

I wonder if these changes could also be related to how the tow loops attach... in that the tow loops were engineered correctly at one point but JL manufacturing changes caused the results we see in this thread.

 

[JeepinJason33]

X2
I bought an early set of the tow loops too. I followed the installation instructions. I also applied red thread-locker.

This isn’t a Jeep design problem. Maximus-3 designed and marketed this solution to fit the Jeep, not the other way around, and there are lots of solutions that work with the JL frame extensions as they are (apparently including the new Maximus-3 solution.)

It appears the splitting/prying force was recognized by every other tow system manufacturer, as all feature the perpendicular brace as part of the Jeep-end or the RV-end of the system. In retrospect I feel stupid for missing that, but then I’m not building and marketing towing components.

I PM’d Maximus-3. I wasn’t whining or asking for an apology or an admission. I just asked how I can get the tie-bar for a retrofit. Radio silence so far. (I’m not excited about this solution, as it eliminates the easy stow-ability of the Roadmaster package left on the RV, but it seems we’re stuck with a fugly cross-member on the Jeep or the RV. At least the Maximus-3 solution, if available, will leave the Jeep clean when it’s not being towed.

You just pointed out something I had not thought about. That cross bar will not allow for the Roadmaster arms to fold back up again without unbolting the crossbar. I really liked the option that someone else came up with that puts the bar across to the smaller hole in the back. That is a bit less noticeable and would not keep the tow bar from folding. However, I don't think it will work for me as I wired the female end of the plug in a manner that the crossbar would be right over the female plug if I go that route. Maybe Maximus will offer a solution using the back hole. Seems like it would be fairly easy to supple a bar the right size with threads on both ends.

Really wish I was home to check the frame and spacing! No response from Maximus on my PM either. I am waiting to call them until I have time to inspect the frame/mounting point for damage. My wife sent me a picture of the tow loops and they are clearly bent, not sure how I missed that.

 

[Whaler27]

Let's not forget that maximus 3 is an ENGINEERING firm.

This means that they have an insurance policy to cover them, as required by the state board of engineering. It is similar to an E&O or malpractice insurance policy.

They are not a fabricator.

I have attached their statement here. Also quoting the text of that statement.



Clearly this is a design error. That is why they have insurance to cover this. No need for lawyers. A simple phone call should be all that it takes.

I expect to have all of my details in the next 3 weeks, and will start the claim process with maximus 3 at that time.

I sure hope you’re right.

I’ll be happily surprised if they’re a real engineering firm.

 

[JeepinJason33]

Fortunately, I do not appear to have any frame horn/mounting point cracking. I will replace the bent tow loops and try out the tie rod system. It is less than ideal as the tie rod will have to be unbolted every time I unhook to enable the tow bar to be properly installed. My alternative is to go with a completely different bumper and that will be more of a pain in the ass and the one I have will be hard to sell as I have cut into it for the wiring and tow loops. I will update with pictures as soon as I get the tie rod.

 

[psouza]

Let’s take stock here for a moment. A company, we have purchased a product from has made an error in the design and implementation of that product. The remedy, if any, the company may (or not) offer has yet to appear. The response to the insult of this is following the normal emotional path of outrage and usual human reactions. You are wasting time.

I purchased the Maximus tie rod kit….even though I have been towing with subject product since the original version appeared…..with out any damage. Why? This needs some intelligent thought. It is easy to make conclusions based on past experiences watching the lowest common denominator exercising their skills in the parking lots and camp grounds. I have even participated In the destruction derby spectacularly. (you may ask) I don’t consider my self lucky, and I am not stupid….so I bought the kit.

The kit is simple. There are no pictures of it available as yet, so I will explain how they made it.

In the kit there are two adapter lugs much like those available for the Blue OX. These are made of steel. NOT ALL ARE. The tie rod attaches to the lug with the same hole used by the tow bar. The included bolt / nut fastens the tie rod, piggy back, to the tow bar. Through the heim joint. Times two.

Since I am already invested to the extent of 3 Jeeps, and I have no emotional outrage, to speak of, no damage either, I am faced with the minor inconvenience presented by the addition of the tie rod during assembly of the tow bar. A bit of explanation is in order here.

Years ago after several aborted vandalism attempts and one nearly successful one, I stopped using the spring clips and hitch pins that made that activity so much fun. Nylock nuts and bolts take very little extra time to assemble. Therefore I find the complaint that the tow bar can’t be stored, on the motor home….humorous.

In closing, I suggest you look up the number of tow plate failures perpetrated by the hitch manufacturers over the past five years...particularly related to the Jeep SUV Cherokee where some numb nuts thought the aluminum crushable sub frame was an acceptable connection point. Also consider looking at the various tow plates you might use in place of Maximus. You might find they also require a tie rod. The Curry unit, in particular, looks less durable that the Jeep attachment point.


Phil

 

[ekim]

The Curry unit, in particular, looks less durable that the Jeep attachment point.

Interesting. I bought the Currie specifically because it seemed pretty beefy. I'd like to know where it appears weak to you. As added insurance I intend to use the LOD frame tie-ins and will attach the safety cables to them.

 

[psouza]

The only picture I could find, of that tow “plate” is a little light on detail. From what I can see, the load connection should be stout enough to withstand the side to side push pull. The “arms” are triangulated well. It is what is behind and below that that concerns me. I see nothing that convinces me that the considerable leverage from the length of the “arm” has a sufficient cross section and mass (thickness) to resist the mechanical advantage and the mechanical flexing that comes from that. As I recall, there is nothing in Jeep structure there other than light sheet metal to dissipate the forces. It looks a little like the Maximus trap.

I do not approve of spreading flex and stress into a weaker structure in safety critical applications. I don’t mean to be a downer on it, only that what I can see doesn’t sell me. Customer satisfaction (?) is not a good indicator of fitness, as we should be able to learn from the Maximus situation. Don’t recall any negatives prior to to this “outbreak”. Currie should know how to do it right. They are one of the best. That’s not enough, by itself, for me to choose it.

Safety cables to the frame of the Jeep, certainly. Never to the tow plate. Not familiar with LOD frame tie ins.

You are invested in this product and it may well be good for this job. Use it. Watch it. If it fails (I doubt it) , replace it and carry on. Life is short, get on with it.



Phil

 

[JeepinJason33]

Let’s take stock here for a moment. A company, we have purchased a product from has made an error in the design and implementation of that product. The remedy, if any, the company may (or not) offer has yet to appear. The response to the insult of this is following the normal emotional path of outrage and usual human reactions. You are wasting time.

I purchased the Maximus tie rod kit….even though I have been towing with subject product since the original version appeared…..with out any damage. Why? This needs some intelligent thought. It is easy to make conclusions based on past experiences watching the lowest common denominator exercising their skills in the parking lots and camp grounds. I have even participated In the destruction derby spectacularly. (you may ask) I don’t consider my self lucky, and I am not stupid….so I bought the kit.

The kit is simple. There are no pictures of it available as yet, so I will explain how they made it.

In the kit there are two adapter lugs much like those available for the Blue OX. These are made of steel. NOT ALL ARE. The tie rod attaches to the lug with the same hole used by the tow bar. The included bolt / nut fastens the tie rod, piggy back, to the tow bar. Through the heim joint. Times two.

Since I am already invested to the extent of 3 Jeeps, and I have no emotional outrage, to speak of, no damage either, I am faced with the minor inconvenience presented by the addition of the tie rod during assembly of the tow bar. A bit of explanation is in order here.

Years ago after several aborted vandalism attempts and one nearly successful one, I stopped using the spring clips and hitch pins that made that activity so much fun. Nylock nuts and bolts take very little extra time to assemble. Therefore I find the complaint that the tow bar can’t be stored, on the motor home….humorous.

In closing, I suggest you look up the number of tow plate failures perpetrated by the hitch manufacturers over the past five years...particularly related to the Jeep SUV Cherokee where some numb nuts thought the aluminum crushable sub frame was an acceptable connection point. Also consider looking at the various tow plates you might use in place of Maximus. You might find they also require a tie rod. The Curry unit, in particular, looks less durable that the Jeep attachment point.


Phil

The part that ticked me off is that Maximus replied to our concerns stating we should have bought the entire kit and that it was the fault of the individuals that did not buy the kit that the bars spread. This kit was not available last year, and even today, their description of the tow loops does not steer you to the full kit for towing. They need to clearly label this for future potential buyers and reach out to the previous buyers of the tow loops via email to let them know that a cross bar is now available and that they highly recommend it for towing applications. I have to think many of the past purchasers may not see this thread. They could have easily replied to the post and suggested that if you had not purchased the tie rod, it would be a good idea to do so.

I don't recall anyone stating that it can't be stored on the motorhome, it is just not as easy to store or hook and unhook as you have to unbolt the bar completely for it to fold back against the RV otherwise, it will drag on the ground. I still have my quick releases so the current job is tool free. I am hoping that for at least the quick drive from unhooking to the campsite, I can swing it up and strap it to the ladder somehow. Not the end of the world, but had I known this, I would have gone a different route as I am looking for super easy on and off that my wife could handle when she takes the kids on trips without me. The torque those bolts are at might be more than she can budge. We also like to camp in the winter around here, our last trip it never got above 5 degrees, so I like to spend as little time as possible unhooking. Bottom line, we will make it work, I have a couple of grand into the bumper and this setup so swapping it out is not something I want to do.

 

[psouza]

I have had the fun experience of riding several companies down (electronic manufacturing) and it is never an orderly process. Even less so when a mistake is made that is acutely embarrassing to marketing and upper management. Panic and self preservation take top priority until a plan to recover can be formulated. And implemented. It’s not personal. It takes time to resolve. And frankly your (my) inconvenience doesn’t matter.

You have choices. Be aware that bad things happen to others that will affect you negatively. Financially or emotionally. Nothing you can do will make it better for you until they have recovered. Get over it. Make contingency plans. Move on now and recover losses (if any) later. Realize it is not personal. Intentionally repeated.

Normal procedures in times like this specifically limit communications to limit liability and stall for time to plan how to recover the fumble. Usually this is under direct control of legal counsel. You and others involved in the initial incident likely will not like the treatment. You are expendable. (your good will is) You are a small number of individuals and your unhappiness, to the limit the law allows, may or may not find relief.

In time the problem will be minimized and removed from public view to minimize effect on business.

Meantime, if one allows this stuff to distract them, you can allow a good part of your life to go to waste. The older you get, the more you realize this loss, and how wasteful it is.

Nice looking rig. For a moment I thought my jeepin' and camping buddy hacked my account.

Phil

 

[Deleted member 59498]

They're probably discussing it with their lawyers.

It's very easy to not post on a forum, but difficult for them to ignore your phone call.

What do you work for them or something defending their garbage product? Weird. No point in calling them if never buy their junk.

These forums are great for calling out garbage.

 

[Cllowe]

Could you just make a bar that goes in the two bottom holes? I really don’t want to have to put a whole new set up on. Luckily mine is not bent and have only towed about 5 times.

 

[psouza]

The short answer to your question, Is yes, it may reduce bending of the tow loop(s) if the cause is from the forces previously discussed, i.e. vector canceling from the inertia force, caused by stopping. Adding the bar where you suggest, may cause the loop to bend just in front of the bar, between the adapter lug and the bar. This is because the vector force direction has been changed by the location of the brace, routing it through the adapter lug and into the added brace. The force vector bypasses the frame member but passes through the small part of the tow loop. To what effect remains to be seen. Adding the bar and lug kit from the manufacturer will keep the force vectors away from the Jeep structure.

This problem is not as simple as it appears, and throwing parts at it can prove to be frustrating, and possibly expensive, if not dangerous.

The gross bending of the tow loop is another symptom with separate causes entirely and has yet to be diagnosed. (publicly)





Phil

 

[AnnDee4444]

What do you work for them or something defending their garbage product?

No, I don't work for them. I don't think it's a garbage product either, despite it's pretty bad design flaw. Figuring out why they cause frame damage is concerning to me. My interests are in using these as recovery points, which have forces in the opposite direction.

Weird. No point in calling them if never buy their junk.

Some of us already own their products and have damaged vehicles. Bitching on a forum is a good way to inform others, but ultimately gets you nowhere if the manufacturer doesn't respond.

lynch mob mentality is ignorance

 

[psouza]

If I understand Maximus-3's description correctly, the issue is apparently not from pulling the Jeep but from stopping it. The green crossbar bar below is in tension when stopping. Without it the other links apply load that spreads the frame apart.

This is a good illustration of the basic principle of force vectoring that bends the tow loops during stopping, and presumably abrupt starting.

Just as important, for damage to the vehicle frame, is the constant forward and backward momentum generated from road irregularities, and suspension flexing of both the towed vehicle and the towing vehicle. These events are a constant during travel time and can do more frame damage than just starting and stopping will do. We have seen the fragmentation pictures of the sub frame. This constant hammering during travel is the cause.

The permanent bending of one tow loop is what would be expected during an "off center recovery pull" , using one loop. If both loops show large bending angles in the same direction, there may have been a hard stop while in a turn that was not compensated for by the auxiliary braking system. (Braking lag). Another possible cause of this (and other damage to tow bar components) is hard turns from a complete stop. The extreme "swing" caused by excessive over hang of the motor home (distance between MH rear most axle and hitch attachment point) will attempt to drag the front of the towed sideways an appreciable distance .



Phil

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