Looking grim for Stellantis

[Jtphoto]

Im amazed at all the standard features our $50k (msrp) pacifica hybrid came with compared to fully loaded wranglers. Stella definitely taking advantage of wrangler buyers.

That’s like comparing a radish to an orange. A front wheel drive, unibody minivan compared to a full body on frame 4x4. For $50k that minivan better have every option know to man.
The wheels alone on the Wrangler are 5x the cost.

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[TheRaven]

That’s like comparing a radish to an orange. A front wheel drive, unibody minivan compared to a full body on frame 4x4. For $50k that minivan better have every option know to man.
The wheels alone on the Wrangler are 5x the cost.

wut.

I mean comparing comparing a minivan to a Wrangler certainly is comparing a radish to an orange, in terms of vehicle type. But not price. You say "full body on frame 4x4" like that means it should cost way more...but that's not true. For instance, an F150 XL or Silverado Custom are not only "full body on frame 4x4s" but also FULL-SIZE and (usually) V8 powered...and they're cheaper than that Pacifica. They're also cheaper than a Wrangler when equipped as close as it can get (which really isn't very close). Go to a more appropriate comparison - like a mid-sizer Colorado or Ranger and it gets even more embarrassing - a Colorado Trail Boss is almost $10k cheaper than a Sport S and better equipped than a Rubicon. Furthermore, it can do 95% of what either Wrangler can do off-road.

We can play this comparison/no comparison game all day long - it never ends with a good look for Jeep.

 

[Pig-Pen]

That’s like comparing a radish to an orange. A front wheel drive, unibody minivan compared to a full body on frame 4x4. For $50k that minivan better have every option know to man.
The wheels alone on the Wrangler are 5x the cost.

they get more expensive than that. We have the mid rangle model. And the hybrid part is a lot of that extra cost. Im sure a regular V6 pacifica comes with tons of stuff standard for much less.

 

[Dusty Dude]

3) make more options available across all trims such as axle/gearing choice. This could allow someone to effectively build a more capable sport model without all the frills some aren't interested in.

I agree with you, but it’s never gonna happen. This hasn’t been done since the 70’s when the Japanese offered 3 trim packages vs ala carte option ordering that the big three were doing. Ever since that time, if you wanted a bigger engine or heavier drivetrain, you were stuck with all the garbage options that were lumped in with it. Doesn’t matter if you want a truck, SUV, van, or sports/muscle car.

 

[2nd 392]

You're on to something here. If they gave us all the options, a la carte, including all legacy colors, the brand would be much more interesting. But I think we can all agree the biggest turn off is price. The 'facelift' 2024 is $10-20k more than earlier models of this generation. When I wanted a different configuration, I bought 2 years old because that's the only way it made sense.
Looking on Jeep's site now, there is no XR option except on the 392??

Nope- no XR 392 option- it’s standard

and only $20,535 higher than my 21.
but in fairness, the $4K XR pkg wasn’t available, so only $16,535 higher, and a few other changes, a couple liked, the others not.

 

[japerry]

Ehh if you're a family shopping for a 'luxury' toter, you'd be surprised the cross-shopping. The Jeep brand doesn't even come close in price.

We ordered a new '22 Pacifica Hybrid Pinnacle minivan, OTD was around 55k. The OP is correct though, not just about wrangler, but especially Wagoneer and JGC. A comparable '22 4xe JGC Summit was 75k! I simply couldn't justify the 20k price hike to get 4wd and a passenger screen... especially when the Pacifica is more practical and gets (slightly) better EV range. I have a Jeep for the snow days. Hell, I'm 50% there on an additional Jeep for the snow days with the money I saved!

Went to get the Pacifica serviced this week and saw a 87k MSRP Summit Reserve 4xe JGC in the showroom! The 2024 Pacifica only has only changed a couple hundred dollars, while a more basic summit reserve is 82k.

In 2021 I special ordered a 392. It was 77k MSRP. Now, the cheapest 392 you can actually buy is the final edition, starting at 100k MSRP. Yes, there are more options (like XR).. but that is not worth the 25k increase in price.

 

[pnut]

https://qz.com/stellantis-sales-profits-earnings-jeep-cars-1851627703

The media makes everything so dramatic, but I will agree numbers don't lie.

My opinion is the prices are too high. A Rubicon X is getting close to the price of what I paid for my 392 just a few years ago. I just don't think the economy and market can bear it. With so many other options out there especially (Bronco, Toyota Land Cruiser), I don't see they can rely on the novelty of solid axles and soft top any longer.

For MANY years (too many really, the other auto makers took too long), Jeep has been the only game in town. Now that isn't the case, it appears they got greedy post covid, pushed it too far, and now the consequences are here.

Or, I'm wrong, it is a data anomaly, and things will pick back up real quickly. I doubt it though.

 

[Remorseless]

 

[Blues Fan 30]

I agree with you, but it’s never gonna happen. This hasn’t been done since the 70’s when the Japanese offered 3 trim packages vs ala carte option ordering that the big three were doing. Ever since that time, if you wanted a bigger engine or heavier drivetrain, you were stuck with all the garbage options that were lumped in with it. Doesn’t matter if you want a truck, SUV, van, or sports/muscle car.

It's crazy to me that the accounting folks haven't figured out that it'd make them more money though. Take my case for example. I ordered a Sahara due to it having the most features and looks I was after. The biggest negative was lack of gearing choice but it still checked the most boxes so that's what I got. They could have EASILY slapped rubi axles and gearing in at next to no price increase on their end aside from batch job changes and the difference in cost of the axles themselves and charged a 50% markup to me. I would have gladly paid knowing it was still SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than having a regear done after the fact. My dad had a 13 sahara for a long while and when they got that there were multiple gear choices available. It's so silly that they tout the wrangler as an offroad machine yet don't let you option any trim level to be more offroad capable.

 

[graytag]

Oh, and they hand out like-for-like loaners.

I'd take and like any loaner!!

 

[graytag]

That's the big issue with most consumer goods lately. The prices are in the "years income" range of a lot of people now. People know that they shouldn't be buying anything that costs a year's income for a toy. Even a passenger car, that they'll use daily, is in the $30-35K range for a reasonable commuter with some utility.

Harleys, are firmly now in the "discretionary income" category. I have motorcycles. I don't feel like setting money on fire, so I don't own a Harley. For the price of a Harley, I can have two dirt bikes, one an Italian Beta that wasn't cheap, a really nice two up Can-Am quad, a retro superbike that we just sold and a 2 up adventure bike. Actually, adding it up, I'm still $8K less than a Harley Glide for ALL of that, all purchased new.

I have discretionary income, and I feel we have a LOT more fun on and offroad than we'd ever have on a "won't even do gravel" Harley.


Up until yesterday, I was working at the U.S.' first Grenadier dealer. I've been looking at them since we started getting them, and I think their quality is better than Jeep, by a bit. They are a solid competitor to anything out there, and I think better than Jeep, Bronco and probably Toyota in many respects. Solid axles, BMW turbo 6, very rugged chassis. The main complaint is the steering doesn't self center like other brands. It's sure a model I'd be shopping if I was shopping 4 door offroad utility.

Just take the base model, add the offroad package with the lockers to get it in the mid $70K range, and drive the thing. It's right there with the 4 door "offroad" models from other brands.

Personal pref but that dash looks like a 1990s Merkur

 

[TheRaven]

Ehh if you're a family shopping for a 'luxury' toter, you'd be surprised the cross-shopping. The Jeep brand doesn't even come close in price.

The thing is though, we SHOULDN'T be surprised. I'm surprised that so many are surprised. I can't bring myself to really believe that the general consensus here at JLWranglerForums.com was that the Wrangler's explosive sales growth over the last four years was due to millions of Americans suddenly becoming hardcore off-roaders. No way. Almost all those sales came from former Highlander/Pilot/Traverse/Explorer owners looking to outdoors-ify their image. Once they get bored of the Wrangler (which they may be doing now - the time frame makes sense), they'll be going right back to Toyota/Honda/GM/Ford lots to buy the next loaded mid-size crossover because if they could have afforded $65k for an SUV they would have bought a Lexus/Caddy/MB/BMW instead of a Jeep. And those who can afford those SUVs this time around won't be buying a Jeep.

 

[DUCK01]

Which is what I said in my OP, but am questioning the value of said increases--for all brands. While I do not have the cost history from the beginning on the Bronco, sticker to sticker shows about a $1,000 increase from the 2023 Wildtrak I bought to a comparable 2024 so that does not align to the $2,200 per year increase for the Wrangler--but there could have been a dramatic increase for the Bronco at some point that moves it closer to the same level of increases the Wrangler has seen.

In the end, they are all too expensive...

Just throwing this out there because I have some background for the sake of comparison.


My 2022 2-door Base with:
Cyber Orange Tri-Coat Metallic Paint
2.7L
Sasquatch
Heavy Duty Front Bumper
Brush Guard
Aux Switches
$41,990 sticker

The most similar I can get now is a 2024 2-door Big Bend with:
2.3L (2.7 no longer an option)
Azure Grey Tri-Coat Metallic Paint
Sasquatch
Heavy Duty Front Bumper
Brush Guard
Aux Switches
$53,090 sticker - The 2.7L was a $1,895 (I think) upcharge over the 2.3L in 2022. The Big Bend now comes with a 12" screen vs. the 8" in mine. Other than that, apples to apples.

That's $11,100 in 2 years ($12,990 assuming the 2.7 was still an option).

The cheapest Bronco I can build is still $41,520. Insane considering what I paid for mine with the Sasquatch package. The cheapest Wrangler I can build is $31,890. That's still a lot of money considering the value of my '22 Bronco with Sasquatch, mainly due to the 4WD system it provides. Front and rear lockers with 4H, 4L, 4A, and Trail One Pedal - that's a lot for a simple package addition to a Base model.

 

[Wbino]

wut.

I mean comparing comparing a minivan to a Wrangler certainly is comparing a radish to an orange, in terms of vehicle type. But not price. You say "full body on frame 4x4" like that means it should cost way more...but that's not true. For instance, an F150 XL or Silverado Custom are not only "full body on frame 4x4s" but also FULL-SIZE and (usually) V8 powered...and they're cheaper than that Pacifica. They're also cheaper than a Wrangler when equipped as close as it can get (which really isn't very close). Go a more appropriate comparison - like a mid-sizer Colorado or Ranger and it gets even more embarrassing - a Colorado Trail Boss is almost $10k cheaper than a Sport S and better equipped than a Rubicon. Furthermore, it can do 95% of what either Wrangler can do off-road.

We can play this comparison/no comparison game all day long - it never ends with a good look for Jeep.

Who is this mass voting block "they"?

 

[NWJeepr]

The thing is though, we SHOULDN'T be surprised. I'm surprised that so many are surprised. I can't bring myself to really believe that the general consensus here at JLWranglerForums.com was that the Wrangler's explosive sales growth over the last four years was due to millions of Americans suddenly becoming hardcore off-roaders. No way. Almost all those sales came from former Highlander/Pilot/Traverse/Explorer owners looking to outdoors-ify their image. Once they get bored of the Wrangler (which they may be doing now - the time frame makes sense), they'll be going right back to Toyota/Honda/GM/Ford lots to buy the next loaded mid-size crossover because if they could have afforded $65k for an SUV they would have bought a Lexus/Caddy/MB/BMW instead of a Jeep. And those who can afford those SUVs this time around won't be buying a Jeep.

This. The Wrangler is a lifestyle brand name. Always has been to some degree but adding a 4-door model let the floodgates open. Some will remember there was actually a 2wd Unlimited for a few years.

Daimler, then Cerebrus, then FCA, and now Stellantis... they all know exactly what they're doing. They've created the wave, and they're riding it. The flame of the JL is dimming, it's getting older, and the lifestyle crowd has mostly had their fun with it.

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