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Stellantis EV Day tomorrow. Expectations for Jeep?

Reinen

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So ... just plan ahead for your electricity consumption, and leave a comparable buffer!
That's what you would do but electricity storage is the EV's Achilles heel. The EV's fuel storage containers are the heaviest and bulkiest component of the vehicle. They're getting better but they have a long way to go before they match the weight and energy density of fossil fuels. So until that improvement happens, "carry extra fuel" is far easier said than done.
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Personally I'd really like an all-electric Jeep. The instant torque, silence, no fossil fuel fumes or emissions would be fantastic. But the 4xe doesn't cut it for me because it's the worst of both worlds. It's primarily ICE propulsion so it has the heavy engine. Electric motors are wonderfully lightweight but the power storage is horribly bulky and heavy.

I think the point where I'll make the switch is when there is a Jeep with a fully electric drivetrain with a small, lightweight, purpose built, highly efficient on-board generator/fuel cell for off-grid recharging. That way I could carry extra lightweight fuel in case I need it. (Well, relatively lightweight at least) and it would only have one of the two heaviest components of the 4xe.
The 4xe is a great first step, and has allowed me to buy an off-road vehicle for the first time, even though I have wanted one for years. I am primarily concerned with emissions and fossil fuel consumption, and so I could not justify buying anything like a Wrangler. I can only have one vehicle, so it was way too wasteful for my daily driving quick trips around town. Even with 25mi range, I should be able to do most of my driving around town on electric. It does certainly have its compromises, though, that's for sure, and it is not a long-term solution.

I can absolutely see Jeep or Mopar offering a fuel cell generator as an option. It will definitely become available on the aftermarket as the decade progresses.

ETA: lightweight is a bit of a reach, though fuel cell generators will be much lighter than a comparable ICE-based generator

That's what you would do but electricity storage is the EV's Achilles heel. The EV's fuel storage containers are the heaviest and bulkiest component of the vehicle. They're getting better but they have a long way to go before they match the weight and energy density of fossil fuels. So until that improvement happens, "carry extra fuel" is far easier said than done.
The point is that you don't "carry extra fuel". You keep some of the fuel you're already carrying in reserve. It's a psychological shift, for sure, but a necessary one.
 

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I'm less bullish on solar as a portable charging solution -- the best panels today produce <2kWh of electricity a day under ideal circumstances (amount of sunlight and ambient temperature). That's... not much; the battery in the 4xe is 17.5kWh. To be meaningful to charge an EV we'd need several orders of magnitude more efficient panels (to say nothing of size and weight). Maybe that's coming?
I think we're going to see vast improvements in solar tech over the next several years. Cost of the panels, efficiency, durability, etc.

With the amount of Wranglers coming with hard tops these days, and other vehicles across the FCA line (and even other OEMs), I foresee solar roof panels to become an essential part of EV innovation, personally. Especially if OEMs flag "range anxiety" as a real issue.
 

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I think we're going to see vast improvements in solar tech over the next several years. Cost of the panels, efficiency, durability, etc.

With the amount of Wranglers coming with hard tops these days, and other vehicles across the FCA line (and even other OEMs), I foresee solar roof panels to become an essential part of EV innovation, personally. Especially if OEMs flag "range anxiety" as a real issue.
That would be amazing! Are you aware of any currently ongoing research into next generation solar panel tech that I can read up on?
 

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rcadden

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Speaking of the drivetrain, I'd really like to see what happens when Jeep ditches the 4WD drivetrain. Yes, that's going to happen! It has limitations because there is only one engine to drive them all. Electric opens a whole world of possibilities. There should be a huge improvement when each wheel is individually driven by it's own electric motor. Think about it, the transfer case being in 2WD/4WD/4LO... won't matter. What diffs you have, BLD, Limited Slip, Locked... won't matter. Each individual wheel can be powered as needed anytime. The engineers can have a field day with this.
You won't make many friends on a Jeep forum suggesting that they ditch the 4wd drivetrain, but I think you're right. Have you looked at Rivian at all? They're doing some really interesting/incredible things with this, and their R1T is being built/tested/hyped specifically for offroad/offgrid usage. It's their whole schtick.

I'd actually be buying a Rivian and not a Jeep if they hadn't priced themselves out. STARTING at $70K for a pickup is just more than I can go.
 

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The point is that you don't "carry extra fuel". You keep some of the fuel you're already carrying in reserve. It's a psychological shift, for sure, but a necessary one.
Um... that's not an option. Then you would be severely increasing the places where the electric Jeep can't go, or at least go safely with enough of a fuel reserve to handle unexpected detours. The psychological shift would be to not go electric because it's too risky.
 

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That would be amazing! Are you aware of any currently ongoing research into next generation solar panel tech that I can read up on?
Not specifically, but a buddy shared these links on Twitter this morning. Pretty impressive innovation on a fully solar-powered car. Still a few years out, but again, if I'm an OEM and I know that EVs are the future but I also know that "range anxiety" is a thing and that the proper EV charging infrastructure is still a few years out, I'd be keeping a sharp eye on solar panel innovation, particularly when it comes to powering/recharging cars.

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/...m-kwh-73-mi-kwh-on-the-track-test-164938.html

https://electrek.co/2021/07/07/ligh...ange-on-a-single-charge-in-latest-track-test/

I don't think it's unrealistic to imagine that in 3-5 years, you'll be able to buy a ~$50-60K EV with solar roof/hood that can recharge itself. Clearly if you're on a road trip, you're going to need to find chargers, but for most people just cruising around town, etc? It'd be perfect. And even moreso for the offroading/overland crew. Can you imagine spending a day in Moab and having MORE charge at the end vs when you started?
 

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Um... that's not an option. Then you would be severely increasing the places where the electric Jeep can't go, or at least go safely with enough of a fuel reserve to handle unexpected detours. The psychological shift would be to not go electric because it's too risky.
I mean. No you wouldn't? If the BEV Wrangler has a 500mi range (not an unreasonable expectation by the end of the decade), that's literally no different than a 400mi range ICE + 5gal of gas (at 20mpg).
 

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You won't make many friends on a Jeep forum suggesting that they ditch the 4wd drivetrain, but I think you're right. Have you looked at Rivian at all? They're doing some really interesting/incredible things with this, and their R1T is being built/tested/hyped specifically for offroad/offgrid usage. It's their whole schtick.

I'd actually be buying a Rivian and not a Jeep if they hadn't priced themselves out. STARTING at $70K for a pickup is just more than I can go.
Never even heard of the Rivian. Interesting! But I think they're coming from a pickup truck mindset, on-road first, off-road second. I'd rather see what Jeep engineers do with this concept with their off-road first mindset. They kept the live front axle, on-road performance be damned, so I highly doubt they will take a step backwards here. But if driveshafts and differentials become unnecessary, does this free them to create an off-road suspension improvement?

This is "whole new world" territory.
 

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Reinen

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I mean. No you wouldn't? If the BEV Wrangler has a 500mi range (not an unreasonable expectation by the end of the decade), that's literally no different than a 400mi range ICE + 5gal of gas (at 20mpg).
True. But it must have that range and not be a giant rolling block of lead to do it. I'd love it if that were possible since electric has tremendous benefits both environmentally and in performance. it probably will be eventually but the battery component certainly isn't there yet.
 

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Never even heard of the Rivian. Interesting! But I think they're coming from a pickup truck mindset, on-road first, off-road second. I'd rather see what Jeep engineers do with this concept with their off-road first mindset. They kept the live front axle, on-road performance be damned, so I highly doubt they will take a step backwards here. But if driveshafts and differentials become unnecessary, does this free them to create an off-road suspension improvement?

This is "whole new world" territory.
They're not a normal pickup. Everything about their marketing is pretty close to the Wrangler. Maybe leaning a *bit* more Bronco, but they're definitely more focused on the offroad/offgrid capabilities than the onroad manners.

And I think they've got the specs to back it up. Maybe not fully Wrangler-capability-matching, but pretty damn close:

Jeep Wrangler JL Stellantis EV Day tomorrow. Expectations for Jeep? 1625772527562


Of course they're not delivering yet, but I think they're on track to start deliveries this month or August.
 

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True. But it must have that range and not be a giant rolling block of lead to do it. I'd love it if that were possible since electric has tremendous benefits both environmentally and in performance. it probably will be eventually but the battery component certainly isn't there yet.
No, it's not there in 2021, you're right about that. Though... the F150 Lightning has a range of 300mi today, is significantly heavier (and not really any more aerodynamic) than the Wrangler, AND that range was calculated with a 1000lb payload so real world non-weighted range is likely much higher. So it's not as far off as you think.

Battery tech is rapidly improving, and solid state batteries in development today will have much greater energy densities and longevity.
 

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They're not a normal pickup. Everything about their marketing is pretty close to the Wrangler. Maybe leaning a *bit* more Bronco, but they're definitely more focused on the offroad/offgrid capabilities than the onroad manners.

And I think they've got the specs to back it up. Maybe not fully Wrangler-capability-matching, but pretty damn close:

Jeep Wrangler JL Stellantis EV Day tomorrow. Expectations for Jeep? 1625772527562


Of course they're not delivering yet, but I think they're on track to start deliveries this month or August.
My first thought was how much could that suspension possibly flex. Looks very IFS to me. What I'm thinking is imagine the flex that a Wrangler is capable of, then remove the necessity to keep the wheels parallel with a live axle. Now we're talking about a crazy capable off-road vehicle.
 

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No, it's not there in 2021, you're right about that. Though... the F150 Lightning has a range of 300mi today, is significantly heavier (and not really any more aerodynamic) than the Wrangler, AND that range was calculated with a 1000lb payload so real world non-weighted range is likely much higher. So it's not as far off as you think.

Battery tech is rapidly improving, and solid state batteries in development today will have much greater energy densities and longevity.
So basically equivalent to my 2dr ICE JL, which I already consider range challenged. Still a long way to go. But don't get it twisted, if the range could be increased at least 30% and I could recharge anime-style at a power station I'd be all into electric.

The question is what to do until this becomes a reality. The current 4xe definitely isn't enough for me to make the switch. I'm holding out for an all-electric drivetrain with a small, highly efficient generator or fuel cell. That would be enough.
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