LiFePO4 Main Battery Replacement

[Tr4ckD4ys]

The Genesis Offroad dual battery system doesn't eliminate the IBS. Up to their Gen 3 systems, the IBS is moved to the accessory battery (the one that disconnects from the Jeep), but users have successfully moved the IBS back to the battery that's permanently connected to the Jeep.

I should have clarified. I was talking about the GEN three system that allows you to mix AGM with lithium.

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[PT's19Rubi]

I ran an Antigravity lithium in a '21 Mustang GT for a year (swapped back to standard to trade). It has 900 cranking amps (though not Cold Cranking amps), and had no problems cranking the Coyote's 12:1 compression here in the piedmont of North Carolina. The battery weighs less than 6 pounds. Also, automotive lithium battery's BMS are designed to be mated to standard alternator systems and will be fine being charged by them.

My son has a lithium battery in an adventure bike. He has had to repeatedly bump the starter to warm the battery in order to crank. But, that bike sits for long periods between starts when it's cold. So, a daily driver with lithium should be fine in the cold. A weekender, not so much.

Being in Florida, you should not have a problem with a lithium battery, even with a weekender.

 

[THAW]

I should have clarified. I was talking about the GEN three system that allows you to mix AGM with lithium.

Ah, I think I understand what you meant, now.

It's the OMEGA generation of Genesis Offroad dual battery systems that uses a REDARC DC-DC charger. Gen 3 and earlier used smart isolators.

The OMEGA system preserves the factory IBS configuration for the Jeep battery, but you're correct the IBS is not involved in monitoring/charging the accessory battery (whether it's AGM or LiFePO4) because the REDARC DC-DC charger essentially keeps it electrically isolated from the Jeep's electrical system and battery.

It's a good setup. I used a Genesis Offroad tray and REDARC BCDC to build a DIY setup before the OMEGA system was introduced. And, I've been looking at upgrading to the Dakota Lithium battery because of capacity and light weight, but it's expensive and there are some potential issues with engine bay heat. So far, I don't need the extra battery capacity, I just like the idea of it.

 

[Ratbert]

They put those concerns to rest in a conversation I had with them, I said in my reply I called the manufacturer directly and spoke with them. I didn't say the website addressed those issues, that was your assumption. The link was merely to show the OP what battery I purchased.
What happens below in freezing temps depends on the facts of the situation. If you park or store your vehicle for 7-10 days in below freezing without starting it may but probably won't discharge the LiFePO4. If you stored or didn't start the vehicle for 30 days or more you may have a starting discharging issue. If the battery is in freezing temps for days on end and the vehicle won't start then a remedy to try is to turn on the headlights for a few minutes, this will cause the battery to internally warm and will most likely start the vehicle. The battery may not charge under freezing temps but after the engine is running it warms the battery and will start charging in a few minutes. So it all depends on the facts of the situation.

They didn't put any of the issues about charging and freezing temps to rest, right? Charging LiFePO4 batteries when it's under 32F damages them. That's the issue. How long it's sitting there doesn't change that fundamental issue.

 

[Ratbert]

@Wabujitsu, you know how 4xes sometimes catch fire because of a manufacturing issue with the separator in the Lithium battery? Well given you're considering a relatively inexpensive Lithium (granted, a LiFePO4) battery, you might find the discussion of cheap Lithium Ion cells in this video (by a former Mythbusters guy) interesting:

Yeah, I just watched that yesterday. Interesting / scary stuff.

tldr: don't go cheap or you risk getting (literally) burned.

 

[Spartywarrior]

They didn't put any of the issues about charging and freezing temps to rest, right? Charging LiFePO4 batteries when it's under 32F damages them. That's the issue. How long it's sitting there doesn't change that fundamental issue.

Blah blah blah. OP get the Anti Gravity battery and save buying a Walmart replacement every 2 year.

 

[Tr4ckD4ys]

Ah, I think I understand what you meant, now.

It's the OMEGA generation of Genesis Offroad dual battery systems that uses a REDARC DC-DC charger. Gen 3 and earlier used smart isolators.

The OMEGA system preserves the factory IBS configuration for the Jeep battery, but you're correct the IBS is not involved in monitoring/charging the accessory battery (whether it's AGM or LiFePO4) because the REDARC DC-DC charger essentially keeps it electrically isolated from the Jeep's electrical system and battery.

It's a good setup. I used a Genesis Offroad tray and REDARC BCDC to build a DIY setup before the OMEGA system was introduced. And, I've been looking at upgrading to the Dakota Lithium battery because of capacity and light weight, but it's expensive and there are some potential issues with engine bay heat. So far, I don't need the extra battery capacity, I just like the idea of it.

I’ve been wanting the Omega system for a while now, particularly because of my rather excessive accessory needs. if you add in the Dakota Lithium battery you’re looking at around 2700$ or so for the full setup. It’s rather unappetizing financially. Gotta wait for Santa Claus to come back around this year.

 

[Wabujitsu]

I have no clue what Lithium Hub is. Someone claimed Lithium Hub was the parent company. I answered your request where Anti Gravity batteries were produced. Los Angeles.

Ah ok, just a little confusion. Lithium Hub makes the batteries I posted a link to. I thought that’s what you were responding to. I’ve been hit in the head too many times…

 

[Wabujitsu]

They didn't put any of the issues about charging and freezing temps to rest, right? Charging LiFePO4 batteries when it's under 32F damages them. That's the issue. How long it's sitting there doesn't change that fundamental issue.

John, for the batteries that come with an internal heater, does that put the issue to rest? At this point I am unclear if the heater makes cranking an engine easier in cold temps, if it is used to enable charging below freezing, or both.

 

[Wabujitsu]

@Wabujitsu, you know how 4xes sometimes catch fire because of a manufacturing issue with the separator in the Lithium battery? Well given you're considering a relatively inexpensive Lithium (granted, a LiFePO4) battery, you might find the discussion of cheap Lithium Ion cells in this video (by a former Mythbusters guy) interesting:

Foster, every website I’ve looked at says that lithium ion batteries (what the video you posted is about) are far more prone to overheating and catching fire than LiFePO4 batteries. LiION batteries use a flammable electrolyte, and LiFePO4 batteries use a non-flammable electrolyte. The presence of IBS in LiFePO4 batteries further mitigates fire risk. They are considered far safer than LiION.

 

[THAW]

Foster, every website I’ve looked at says that lithium ion batteries (what the video you posted is about) are far more prone to overheating and catching fire than LiFePO4 batteries. LiION batteries use a flammable electrolyte, and LiFePO4 batteries use a non-flammable electrolyte. The presence of IBS in LiFePO4 batteries further mitigates fire risk. They are considered far safer than LiION.

Agreed.

LiFePO4 electrolyte is combustible, though. Anyway, I just thought the separator manufacturing stuff was interesting, and after watching the video I don't think I'll ever buy a "cheap" Lithium battery - even a LiFePO4. [Note: I don't know anything about the quality of the cells in Ionic batteries.]

 

[Ratbert]

John, for the batteries that come with an internal heater, does that put the issue to rest? At this point I am unclear if the heater makes cranking an engine easier in cold temps, if it is used to enable charging below freezing, or both.

The BMS uses it to warm the batteries up before it allows any current to hit them. Most decent batteries (with a heater or not) disable charging when the temps get too low.

My understanding is that it's only on when charging. That is, it's never powered by the battery itself.

Check out Will Prowse's YouTube channel if you want to know how much you/I don't know about this stuff. One of the tests he does is to verify that they shut down appropriately when cold.

 

[gato]

It will charge them, but not with the right charging algorithm that a Lithium battery requires.

You can change them with an Antigravity battery. Pretty much all the light weight LiIOn/LIPO batteries have built in controllers/battery management system to properly monitor and charge them. I like the Aintigravity with reserve start (Re-Start) capability.

 

[USNvet]

LiFePO4 does burn, but it takes a good short to get them going. Based upon this video, the Dakota may be worth considering since I don't think Battle Born makes a replacement ICE starter version.

 

[YBABRAT]

I am considering the idea of replacing our Jeeps’ batteries with LiFePO4 batteries, when the AGMs wear out.

Has anyone done this? Will the stock alternators properly charge them? Anything I need to consider before doing this?

There are a few drop in LifePo4 batteries. The Dodge boys use them in their 392 equiped monsters to drop some weight. Here is a top dog in the drop in automotive battery segment.

https://antigravitybatteries.com/products/starter-batteries/automotive/ag-24-rs/

There is a Euro company that has a heater built in for below 0 starting power and safe charging at low temps.

I was going to do the battery upgrade, but my mod to use an H8 battery has not let me down. Once the LifePo4 batteries become more main stream, prices will drop and make it more feasible on such an upgrade for me.

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