Latest TSB on the Pentastar engine

[azjl#3]

My only concern on this TSB is, are the replacement parts new improved or just replacing old worn with new same stock/design/manufacture items, even if part numbers may be different. I think it would then get the motor to 100,000 miles which is all they care about.

Still waiting for aftermarket to sell real honest roller rocker and camshaft kit.

Waiting for 5.7 swap to drop into $20,000..... That and the oil filter would be on the correct side of the engine....

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[Jtphoto]

My only concern on this TSB is, are the replacement parts new improved or just replacing old worn with new same stock/design/manufacture items, even if part numbers may be different. I think it would then get the motor to 100,000 miles which is all they care about.

Waiting for 5.7 swap to drop into $20,000.....

Thousands if not millions of those engines are higher mileage with those exact same parts / part numbers yet have no issues at all so apparently it’s not the design. That leaves us with:
- Quality control of the cam and rocker parts manufacturers (are they trying to cheap out with poorer grade metals)
- Preventive and continuous maintenance especially checking oil levels when there is a threat of oil cooler leaks. (Local club member just lost his engine. Top end seems to be first to go due to not checking oil while he had a “known” oil cooler leaks and ran too low on oil)
- Repair Technician’s training and reliability to do the job right and cleanly to reduce contamination including:
- proper and adequate engine flush to remove metal particles before rebuild.
- Proper lubing of all parts while installing to prevent start up wear/ dry start situation.

 

[roaniecowpony]

Thousands if not millions of those engines are higher mileage with those exact same parts / part numbers yet have no issues at all so apparently it’s not the design. That leaves us with:
- Quality control of the cam and rocker parts manufacturers (are they trying to cheap out with poorer grade metals)
- Preventive and continuous maintenance especially checking oil levels when there is a threat of oil cooler leaks. (Local club member just lost his engine. Top end seems to be first to go due to not checking oil while he had a “known” oil cooler leaks and ran too low on oil)
- Repair Technician’s training and reliability to do the job right and cleanly to reduce contamination including:
- proper and adequate engine flush to remove metal particles before rebuild.
- Proper lubing of all parts while installing to prevent start up wear/ dry start situation.

Even design issues can have a variety of failure rates. Just because a design is poor, doesn't mean every single engine will fail in the same manner or at the same time. You'd need statistical data on the failure to start to paint a picture of a trend. We aren't going to see that kind of data, since it is closely held proprietary data. Cam and rocker materials are a long evolution type of component and it's unlikely a chilled cast iron cam or little rocker arm shoe got some cheap shot. But it's not impossible either. They just aren't going to tell us.

As for who's doing the repair, sure. But clearly the new engines out of the clean engine rooms of the factory are dropping like flies. So, generalizing, it isn't a widespread case of improper repair.

 

[Jtphoto]

Even design issues can have a variety of failure rates. Just because a design is poor, doesn't mean every single engine will fail in the same manner or at the same time. You'd need statistical data on the failure to start to paint a picture of a trend. We aren't going to see that kind of data, since it is closely held proprietary data. Cam and rocker materials are a long evolution type of component and it's unlikely a chilled cast iron cam or little rocker arm shoe got some cheap shot. But it's not impossible either. They just aren't going to tell us.

As for who's doing the repair, sure. But clearly the new engines out of the clean engine rooms of the factory are dropping like flies. So, generalizing, it isn't a widespread case of improper repair.

I worked for a major auto parts warehouse many years ago we stocked W.A.R (Western Automotive Rebuilders) rebuilt engines for all the auto shops in town. The quality of the engine was dependent on the guy in their machine shop that rebuilt that particular engine. They were warranted but I myself ended up with a bad 318 rebuild that shit the bed with in the first 20,000 miles.
A bad rebuild shop or a bad repair has nothing to do with engine quality or design.
Soft metal used where hardened metal should be also causes issues. Look at diff gears for instance. Is there an issue with the hardening process at the camshaft plants or the rocker parts.
The point is if it was ALL a design flaw the failure rate would be far greater. But because it is random and there are no less then 3 manufacturers that build the cams and valve train parts, I’ll go with parts quality control on new car engine failures.

 

[roaniecowpony]

I worked for a major auto parts warehouse many years ago we stocked W.A.R (Western Automotive Rebuilders) rebuilt engines for all the auto shops in town. The quality of the engine was dependent on the guy in their machine shop that rebuilt that particular engine. They were warranted but I myself ended up with a bad 318 rebuild that shit the bed with in the first 20,000 miles.
A bad rebuild shop or a bad repair has nothing to do with engine quality or design.
Soft metal used where hardened metal should be also causes issues. Look at diff gears for instance. Is there an issue with the hardening process at the camshaft plants or the rocker parts.
The point is if it was ALL a design flaw the failure rate would be far greater. But because it is random and there are no less then 3 manufacturers that build the cams and valve train parts, I’ll go with parts quality control on new car engine failures.

All of what you say is possible. But the likelyhood of it being as simple as materials or heat treat gets lower as time goes by. This is because quality assurance possibilities are low hanging fruit in an investigation into failures. I spent 30 years in the commercial airplane business doing this.

Most of the failures reported on this forum are the OEM engines. The repeats are often on Mopar provided engines, whether new or reman.

 

[PegFundy]

Ok this is mine. 9k miles. Is this a tick worth investigating or normal? V6.

 

[Jay Gatsby]

Ok this is mine. 9k miles. Is this a tick worth investigating or normal? V6.

Nope, sounds like injectors to me.

 

[PegFundy]

Nope, sounds like injectors to me.

WHEW! Thank you!

 

[roaniecowpony]

Ok this is mine. 9k miles. Is this a tick worth investigating or normal? V6.

If you want to know where the noise is coming from, put a piece of pvc pipe on the area you're concerned with and listen with your ear on the pipe, then move it around.

 

[BubbaCon]

Does anyone have a .pdf of the TSB? Trying the link from the first page and the site times out.

Appreciate the help!

 

[carlos c]

Finally I received a

nd installed the intake camshaft that I bought from Mopar, waited 3 weeks for the kit to arrive, $540 versus $1200 from the dealer.

 

[carlos c]

This is the old one

 

[Fatfreewilly]

Anyone gotten this under warranty?

I asked my dealer last time I was there about a TSB for the 3.6 for new cams and they didn't seem to know off the top of theor heads, but I dodnt give them specifics. Figured if under warranty I'll get it done next time I'm there.

 

[carlos c]

As I mention it on beginning of this post that I would take the cam with me to work and check the harnesses of the cam and the follower
and I got about 53 Rockwell on both parts. It’s kind of on a low side as standard go for 58 to 64 Rockwell.

 

[carlos c]

I checked all the other cams and they all look fine, but I did replaced the cheaper rollers that are on the exhaust cams,
My opinion is ,nothing to do with the cam but oil starvation on the bank one intake cam.

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