Verified: Engine Start-Stop (ESS) Standard on 3.6L Pentastar 2018 Wrangler Engine

The Great Grape Ape

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But can you explain what you dislike about it?
The inconsistency in throttle response. Whether it’s my dad’s Cherokee, or my pa-in-law’s diesel Merc, it doesn’t always seem to react the same, and that throttle response lag has caused me a few butt clenching moments. After those, my routine entering these vehicles is now ignition, disable ESS, seatbelt, etc; whereas before it would’ve been seat belt, check seat & mirrors, ignition, etc. though I still forget when going months between borrowing.

Sure if I can anticipate the need, I can ease off the brake, etc, but for the emergency situations or the unanticipated opportunities you don’t get that luxury to plan on how to prompt it to get ready to act.

I have two uses which will vary their benefit, first would be rush-hour traffic, but usually I avoid it through side roads, but if a meeting in a location I can’t avoid, I would enable it as its benefit in 30 mins of stop an go traffic make sense, but it’s easier to anticipate the traffic jam when I am stopped and therefore can eaily enable ESS, rather than defaulting for the opposite. But even just casual in-town driving, I’m rarely stopped for more than a minute maybe a few time even getting across town.
My other use which will not benefit in the slightest is full speed hwy driving for long distances without stops let alone traffic, and I live about a mile from the TransCanada so no appreciable traffic even to get to the highway, so there is less than 0% benefit there.

I do appreciate a stronger battery, starter and alternator in the ESS systems (though the top alternator looks like the same 240A model for trailer tow group).

Making it default to off, makes more sense from an actual user experience, but for trying to boost CAFE numbers, and trying to pretend everyone cares about the planet, forcing it to defaul to on works for the companies and government where it is more window-dressing.

IMO it’s the blunt tool intermediary step between a better Hybrid solution, so I’m also against it because it’s an ineffective PR move that delays the better solution IMO.
 

jeppesen.io

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The inconsistency in throttle response. Whether it’s my dad’s Cherokee, or my pa-in-law’s diesel Merc, it doesn’t always seem to react the same, and that throttle response lag has caused me a few butt clenching moments.
I wonder if that'll be the same for the manual. I assume once I'm getting ready to go I can shift to 1st from neutral and it'll start right up, before releasing the clutch.

But I realize now, I was looking at ESS through the eyes of a manual transmission user. If I had a auto I can see how it'd be annoying now.
 

homerun

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What about extra wear and tear on the starter, motor, other parts? Again I don’t claim to be a mechanic however I have been told that starting is one of the hardest things you can do on a motor (especially cold starts, which this won’t be). I undertstand the battery is larger, to compensate in your opinions would ESS cause extra strain on other components?
 

jeppesen.io

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What about extra wear and tear on the starter, motor, other parts? Again I don’t claim to be a mechanic however I have been told that starting is one of the hardest things you can do on a motor (especially cold starts, which this won’t be). I undertstand the battery is larger, to compensate in your opinions would ESS cause extra strain on other components?
I can't see how it'd be hard on the engine - the rings, cams etc will still be well lubricated and oil be up to temperature. An engine after all, is designed to handle many little explosions per-second. Don't see a little electric push doing much harm.
 

JeepinOutfitters

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What about extra wear and tear on the starter, motor, other parts? Again I don’t claim to be a mechanic however I have been told that starting is one of the hardest things you can do on a motor (especially cold starts, which this won’t be). I undertstand the battery is larger, to compensate in your opinions would ESS cause extra strain on other components?
That's largely not the case with modern engines, and those fitted with ESS have bits upgraded for the additional wear/use. Driving a modern engine with ESS is very different than say, if you were to drive an older Jeep with the 4.0L (a YJ, TJ, XJ, etc) and manually stop the engine and restart it at every stop. Or heck, even if you did it with an older JK with the 3.8L.
 

The Great Grape Ape

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Which documents are you looking at for this information?
Looking at the options list, the base one isn’t listed, but likely 160A like currently in the JK, however they do list a 220 upgrade for JLU Sahara and Rubicon, and then 240A for trailer tow package.

From the FCA Fleet list we have for work, currently the ESS equipped Pentastar Grand Cherokee is running on the base alternator which is less (180A alternator upgrade is the GC’s tow group option). I know there is also a 220A GC option, but I think that’s for the diesel and possibly larger HEMIs.
 

The Great Grape Ape

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What about extra wear and tear on the starter, motor, other parts? Again I don’t claim to be a mechanic however I have been told that starting is one of the hardest things you can do on a motor (especially cold starts, which this won’t be). I undertstand the battery is larger, to compensate in your opinions would ESS cause extra strain on other components?
There is wear and tear, but it is accounted for in the design. They improve the oiling process, and have changed the rockers and other parts with lower friction material; they also strengthen the battery, starter, and sometimes alternator. These are all beneficial upgrades for the additional stress of ESS now designed to handle say.. 500,000 re-starts vs 50,000.

However, taking that thinking, it’s now just plainly a stronger system, and will last longer still without the added stress of ESS if you disable it... but will that even be a noticeable difference to anyone other than the people who keep their vehicle for a decade, etc. Good thing no one keeps Wranglers for that long. ;)

Again it is a strain, but it is accounted for, which does add weight & cost, but it’s all relative.
 

homerun

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I will probably keep mine a decade, maybe? Especially if its the last manual transmission I can buy. Been driving 20 years, had 4 vehicles and 2 bikes. Of the 4 vehicles 2 where less than 2 years, the YJ was 8 and the Ranger was 11. The JT will be my first new off the lot vehicle!
 

TJLtom

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I didn't get the memo about how long you can drive the same Jeep. My 97 TJ and I have been traveling together for just over 2 decades and assuming they quarantine my new JLUR we still have a ways to go.
 

DanW

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I didn't get the memo about how long you can drive the same Jeep. My 97 TJ and I have been traveling together for just over 2 decades and assuming they quarantine my new JLUR we still have a ways to go.
Thanks! You made my 10 year old JK feel very young! Are you hanging onto your TJ? I can't bring myself to part with the JK, so the JL has to share the garage with it.
 

Charles

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It's so good to be allowed back in the forums to check just to see how many of those who are either complaining or suffering with the incompatible ESS technology. Scanning most of the ESS type topics, there's one thing I didn't see or just couldn't find. No one answered my old question I asked about 1 year ago.

Welp this morning I answered it myself. Seems I've located this official FCA PDF which has one key point I was interested in hearing about the ESS system. Allow me to quote:

Engine Stop-Start (ESS) standard with 3.6-liter V-6 and 3.0-liter EcoDiesel V-6 automatic powertrains

Source: http://media.fcanorthamerica.com/pdf.do?id=18670

What does this mean.. it means ALL of those engine options will have the ESS installed. Yes, even the Diesel engine. #Fail #EpicFail


totally hate this ESS garbage - makes the vehicle lethargic -- It just cant quite start the car engage the transmission and prepare the car to move forward in the time it takes to remove your foot from the brake and onto the gas pedal {At least not in the time it takes you to make a left at a stop light with oncoming traffic on a busy street} My Acura had this and when the lease was up I was so glad to drop the damn thing off. The entire concept is stupid when you think how car manufactures keep upping the HP and decreasing the 0-60 times. Driving in a fuel efficient manner will increase fuel economy and decrease emissions way more than any ESS system. The first thing I would do was turn that damn thing off every time I started the car.

Intelligent traffic lights in big cities will also help this problem - How many times do you come to a red light with no cross traffic and you are waiting on no one. Why is this light red to begin with ?

The concept of ESS is not a bad one but without a hybrid in place to get the car going it is just not a good design for a combustion only vehicle.
 

Rambeaux

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What's really surprising within the forums, is that no matter what I see or rear here, someone (groups of individuals) are saying that hate one thing or another about these new jeeps. Sure I've been called a clown and to go away. But I bet, if we both pull up to a stop light (mine 2017 JK 3.6L no ESS) & (you 2018 JL 3.6 w/ESS) I would be gone before you'd re-engage the system. Now its the soft top concept or something else the list keeps growing, so what is Jeep not listening to US the true wrangler owners about this piece of junk. jeep Wrangler Hybrid?? Give me a break.. The only jeep I want is a 2 wrangler, with a diesel engine that doesn't have the ESS now that even that's not going to happen. We're (wife and I) are so happen we have a last run 2017. 10, 20 even 30 years from now if we need something new?.. What's old is new again, we';re staying away from any vehicle thats any sort for electronic crap on it.
However, there is hope. Contact your congressman and tell them how much you love this ESS as the past administration imposed these new rules and Pres trump hasn't gotten around to rewriting the rules. One might expect to see massive changes and if this happen we might just see that new 2 door JT truck without any ESS crap on it.
U mad bro?


Turbo won't have ESS. Everything's gonna be ok.
 
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DanW

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It's so good to be allowed back in the forums to check just to see how many of those who are either complaining or suffering with the incompatible ESS technology. Scanning most of the ESS type topics, there's one thing I didn't see or just couldn't find. No one answered my old question I asked about 1 year ago.

Welp this morning I answered it myself. Seems I've located this official FCA PDF which has one key point I was interested in hearing about the ESS system. Allow me to quote:

Engine Stop-Start (ESS) standard with 3.6-liter V-6 and 3.0-liter EcoDiesel V-6 automatic powertrains

Source: http://media.fcanorthamerica.com/pdf.do?id=18670

What does this mean.. it means ALL of those engine options will have the ESS installed. Yes, even the Diesel engine. #Fail #EpicFail
Ok, so if it bugs you that much, don't buy one and pass on every other wonderful thing about the Wrangler, or get a JK.

The ESS just isn't that big a deal. I'm at about 1,870 miles now and it doesn't bug me, at all. In fact, I like it in certain situations, such as drive-through windows.

I'm still betting that Superchips or AEV, or somebody making a programmer will give you the ability to shut it off. I won't be using that, though. Pressing a button is no harder than pressing the start button. The two operations, combined, require less effort than turning a key.

Just my 2 cents.
 
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