Experienced my first Death Wobble

[Upnarms]

Maybe you have but if not rotate the tires around and re balance. Mud terrains like that can get off balance esp w 20k miles and will start the show. Of course other factors at play like others have said. Control arms, I didn't see if you said you upgraded drag link and tie rod but that's a must.

The mud tires will def bring out the wobble.

Good luck chasing it. Frustrating for sure. The other bad thing is whatever started the dw will cause other components to wear out so when u fix the original issue you have other new issues. I hear it's best to change out all suspected components at once or soon as practical

Sponsored

 

[Upnarms]

I just re read thread, nobody mentioned alignment. What is your toe set at? I was reading another thread about somebody who installed SS tie rod and drag link. They got DW at even 20mph before realizing the toe was set in too much. SS actually says to have a toe out with their tie rod I can't recall how much but if your toe in is too much of an angle, that will def give you dw as well. A cheap easy fix if so. Hoping for you.

I think toe in is usually less than 1/8" but a quick search will tell.

 

[cns721]

Thanks @Upnarms. I have a rebalance and alignment appointment later today.

I also found someone in a local Wicked Jeeps group on Facebook who people apparently call the death wobble doctor lol I’m meeting him at his shop for him to evaluate and see if he finds anything out of the ordinary. I also ended up ordering the track bar/sector shaft brace which should arrive on Saturday. Gonna wait and see what the “doctor” finds before ordering other parts.

 

[cns721]

getting ready to install the track bar and sector shaft brace and noticed something is leaking above the steering box. Any idea what it is?

 

[McGilli]

Just going to chime in. 20 Sahara, stock wheels and tires. Everything else was upgraded - but everything was fine for a year. then went to DW hell


I'm going to tell you how I keep my Jeep driving.

***And I understand this is not the way to do this - but I just want to drive and no one I know can figure out any other way after upgrading every steering/suspension component***

We have found that for whatever reason, if the stock steering stabilizer shifts even the tiniest amount DW starts coming back. So, loosen and retighten. Then it's good for 3,000km.

[we have tried 3 different stabilizers and all make the DW 10x worse]

This past July I was going on a road trip for 14 days across the US/Canada. I told them - I cannot F around with this while on the trip.

So - lol - they put weld spots down there on the track bar to prevent the stabilizer from shifting. janky AF - but 15,000km later and no problems.

Oh - and I just wanted to chime in on some other comments I read here - for me - having lower tire pressure eased the DW when it was happening.

30psi and it wasn't nearly as bad as 37. I keep my PSI in the low 30's now.



#Speaking of alignment though (previous comment here)- could the Castor angle cause this? When I got my Jeep it was 2.5 out of factory - people here said get it moved to 6. It's the only thing I haven't walked back yet...

thx all - honestly I hate that any of us have DW but reading that others have it is cathartic...

 

[Roky]

Just going to chime in. 20 Sahara, stock wheels and tires. Everything else was upgraded - but everything was fine for a year. then went to DW hell


I'm going to tell you how I keep my Jeep driving.

***And I understand this is not the way to do this - but I just want to drive and no one I know can figure out any other way after upgrading every steering/suspension component***

We have found that for whatever reason, if the stock steering stabilizer shifts even the tiniest amount DW starts coming back. So, loosen and retighten. Then it's good for 3,000km.

[we have tried 3 different stabilizers and all make the DW 10x worse]

This past July I was going on a road trip for 14 days across the US/Canada. I told them - I cannot F around with this while on the trip.

So - lol - they put weld spots down there on the track bar to prevent the stabilizer from shifting. janky AF - but 15,000km later and no problems.

Oh - and I just wanted to chime in on some other comments I read here - for me - having lower tire pressure eased the DW when it was happening.

30psi and it wasn't nearly as bad as 37. I keep my PSI in the low 30's now.



#Speaking of alignment though (previous comment here)- could the Castor angle cause this? When I got my Jeep it was 2.5 out of factory - people here said get it moved to 6. It's the only thing I haven't walked back yet...

thx all - honestly I hate that any of us have DW but reading that others have it is cathartic...

Caster angle is not a root cause of DW, but if it’s to low, especially that low, it’s like adding gas to a fire…..

 

[2manyhobbies]

Years ago, JK owners found that the threaded suspension bolts would eat into the female bushings, and contribute to DW. There were posts on the forum about the bolt sizes needed, and sourcing them via McMaster Carr. And then these “kits” popped up. It may not be a bad idea to pull a bolt or three, and inspect the female contact area (I’d start with the track bar). Evidence of the threads from the bolts cutting grooves into the bushings would push me to the bolt swap. And be sure you are hitting the torque specs for the bolts. I’m a big guy, so getting to 150lb-ft while laying under the Jeep is easy. YMMV.

https://www.northridge4x4.com/part/hardware/10046-grimm-offroad-hardware-upgrade-kit

FWIW, I did install one of these kits on my JK that I wheeled heavily. It had replacement control arms, track bars, you name it. I fortunately never experienced DW. Good luck!

 

[Upnarms]

There is definitely something to be said about caster adjustment if youre lifted. The AEV dual sport lift I got cane with geometry correction brackets to retain the factory angles. Possibly why I havent had issues after lifting. Adjustible uppers and lowers would do the same thing. You can probably get away with just lowers on a short lift. Everything will be exaggerated as far as dw if you are running short

 

[cns721]

So far I've done the following:

Track bar replacement
Tires rebalanced
Tire rotation
Track bar brace (will be installing the sector shaft piece this week when the 42mm socket arrives)

It seems like the wobbling has decreased but it still does happen. Something that I noticed was that I've only experienced the wobble while driving through town. I have yet to experience any wobbling on the highway. I drove down to PA yesterday and drove over several bumps and potholes. Nothing. As soon I got off the highway to drive through a village, as soon I went over a pothole, it wobbles slightly. It seems like it only wobbles when I'm going 30-40mph when going over a bump. Once I'm going highway speed, it drives normal no matter how much of a bump I go over. Why is this? I thought it gets worse the faster you go?

Planning on replacing the tie rod end that connects to the pitman arm. The "death wobble doctor" found some play where the pitman arm is connected to the tie rod end and suggested me to fix that. Other than that, he said that everything else seemed to be fine.

 

[Roky]

So far I've done the following:

Track bar replacement
Tires rebalanced
Tire rotation
Track bar brace (will be installing the sector shaft piece this week when the 42mm socket arrives)

It seems like the wobbling has decreased but it still does happen. Something that I noticed was that I've only experienced the wobble while driving through town. I have yet to experience any wobbling on the highway. I drove down to PA yesterday and drove over several bumps and potholes. Nothing. As soon I got off the highway to drive through a village, as soon I went over a pothole, it wobbles slightly. It seems like it only wobbles when I'm going 30-40mph when going over a bump. Once I'm going highway speed, it drives normal no matter how much of a bump I go over. Why is this? I thought it gets worse the faster you go?

Planning on replacing the tie rod end that connects to the pitman arm. The "death wobble doctor" found some play where the pitman arm is connected to the tie rod end and suggested me to fix that. Other than that, he said that everything else seemed to be fine.

Drag link connects to pitman, not tie rod, didn’t want you to order the wrong one…..

 

[Upnarms]

Dw in my experience happens between specific speeds. Must resonate just right. In my tj it was always at 50mph. Never started at a higher speed, but speeding up wouldn't stop it when it started.

My JL happened on down hills hitting a bump in the mid to high 40s. Never happened till my tires wore down a lot, tires are seriously one of the main triggers I find. Now the cause as you know is a combo.

Look into the geometry correction brackets or longer control arms for sure. Sorry you are chasing this. You get your tires balanced at discount? I had tires from Costco once and they balanced my tires horribly every time, discount found them to be 3oz off on some.

For my tj, i know apples to oranges, but track bar bushing made biggest difference followed by new control arms, as control arm bushings were shot. That was after i did hubs, ball joints, u-joints, tie rod, steering stabilizer, and drag link. All of the later made no difference.

Make sure your rotors aren't warped too. That used to contribute to the tj dw that would start when braking, not just the vibes from the rotor but full dw.

When u replaced everything you have, the culprit is probably the tires sadly (esp if the control arms don't help). Some tires just are heavy and don't balance well like mts and that weight will get everything going.

Just a bunch of my opinions, I'm no expert, just experience with dw and tons of forum posts.

 

[McGilli]

I'll throw in when my DW would happen - every single time without fail - and when it wouldn't.

SPEED - minimum speed - 90/kmh | 55MPH and higher

So I was fine in cities. Highways were the issue.

BUMPS - The bump HAD TO BE ASYMMETRICAL.

Think of it this way. You're on the highway and coming up to an overpass. There is the connection joint for that bridge/overpass. If it is straight - and I rolled over it straight on then no problem.

But sometimes the joints are on an angle so one wheel goes over it first then the other wheel. That would immediately send the from wheels into a horrific DW

Here's a video - you can see that the deck joint is angled and causes the DW

 

[cns721]

As I mentioned above, I went down to PA to wheel a bit on Sunday. Experienced the wobble a few times on the way. However the odd thing is on the way back, no wobbling at all. I drove quite a bit yesterday and today, still no wobbling. I drove through the same spots several times where I experienced the wobble, nothing. I'm inching towards 300 miles so far without any wobbling. Not sure if wheeling helped with something... I'm gonna just install the sector shaft brace since I just got the 42mm socket in the mail. At this point, I'm gonna just hold off replacing other parts until the wobble comes back.

 

[Upnarms]

As I mentioned above, I went down to PA to wheel a bit on Sunday. Experienced the wobble a few times on the way. However the odd thing is on the way back, no wobbling at all. I drove quite a bit yesterday and today, still no wobbling. I drove through the same spots several times where I experienced the wobble, nothing. I'm inching towards 300 miles so far without any wobbling. Not sure if wheeling helped with something... I'm gonna just install the sector shaft brace since I just got the 42mm socket in the mail. At this point, I'm gonna just hold off replacing other parts until the wobble comes back.

That's good news, hopefully remains. When I was getting a shimmy, not dw, I noticed it more certain times of the day in the same areas when temps were different. I wonder if the bushings of metal in the components expanded, etc with the heat and caused different behavior. Or maybe your tires picked up or dropped off some stones that balances things out. Haha, either way hope it doesn't return.

 

[mysto]

It seems like the wobbling has decreased but it still does happen. Something that I noticed was that I've only experienced the wobble while driving through town. I have yet to experience any wobbling on the highway. I drove down to PA yesterday and drove over several bumps and potholes. Nothing. As soon I got off the highway to drive through a village, as soon I went over a pothole, it wobbles slightly. It seems like it only wobbles when I'm going 30-40mph when going over a bump. Once I'm going highway speed, it drives normal no matter how much of a bump I go over. Why is this? I thought it gets worse the faster you go?

It's a harmonic, like a frequency, so different jeeps can be different. It might point to a cause but I don't think anyone would know what. It'll probably change as it progresses.

Isn't ball joints the most likely cause? Maybe I'm naive about that.

Your leak looks like it's is on the bottom of the intake, could be blowback from the TB or ingested water, or maybe something splashed on it from up higher like window washer fluid or oil change sloppiness. Clean it and watch.

Glad to hear you are in remission.

Sponsored