Death Wobble - Please Help

[AVGeek99]

In early November I had a MC 3.5 GC lift. At that point I had 42k miles on my stock Rubi suspension. I had 35s since day one and in all those miles I never had a hint of shimmy, DW, or any sort of steering issues.

Imediately after getting my Jeep back I started noticing steering issues. The Jeep would wander, especially on uneven surfaces. On sharper bumps there was a shimmy in the steering; on a couple occasions in the first few days this evolved into death wobble. Prior to this I had heard of DW, but never experienced it, now I had. I also had never felt a shimmy in the steering quite like that. I continued to drive it to work that week and there was no more DW and the more I drove it, it seemed like the shimmy was going away, or wasn't as bad so I just lived with it. By mid November the only thing that continued to really bother me was the wandering or flightiness, but after continued driving it bothered me less and less.

It should be noted that all of my driving since having the lift installed has been around home and on my daily commute to work and back. All roads I have driven are hard surface roads that I am very familiar with and have been driving for years. I've not done any off-roading since the lift.

My plan was/is to get new tires (37s) sometime in March. Before that I wanted to make upgrades that I knew were needed if going to 37s. I was/am hoping to have the shimmy and DW solved before getting the 37s. So after the new year I started working on it. Here is what I've done up to now and the results.

1. Checked torque (did not loosen first) on all front suspension and steering parts. The driver side LCA was a bit under torqued at the frame. I torqued to 190 ft/lbs.
   1. This had no impact.
2. I measured caster and discovered it was only 1.8 degrees. I lengthened the LCAs and caster is now 6.2 degrees. While doing this I retorqued (after first loosening) all connections on front suspension steering parts. After loosening and prior to retorqing I got on the front bumper and jumped up and down to try to get everything to settle. This same day I also checked my toe alignment. It was toed in 1/16th to 1/8. This seemed to be within recommended spec so I left as is.
   1. Adjusting the caster fixed the wandering/flightyness but did nothing for the shimmy/DW issue
3. The following week I installed 9/16" trackbar bolts in the front. These are a bit larger than the stock 14mm bolts and are intended to reduce play in the trackbar connections.
   1. This got rid of the shimmy for a week and for that week I thought I had solved my problems.
   2. A week later the shimmy came back and I had my first episode of DW in quite a while
4. The next week I installed all new steering components. These were all part of my orignal upgrade plan.
   1. SS Yeti Tie Rod
      1. Toe in is 1/16th
   2. SS Yeti Drag link with Griffen attenuator
   3. SS Steering Stabilizer
   4. All of this had no impact on shimmy
5. After all the steering components had no impact I ordered and installed (this past Thursday) the SS sector shaft brace. This was not part of my original upgrade plan, but hoped it would fix the shimmy.
   1. From what I can tell I think this fixed the shimmy, HOWEVER, it brought back the DW in a big way.
   2. Now when I hit bumps that previously caused a bad shimmy, there is no shimmy and it goes straight to DW. On smaller bumps that would cause a noticeable, but not bad shimmy, the steering is now tight.
   3. The sector shaft brace is intended to reduce the flex in the steering box on the steering nut where the pitman arm is connected.
   4. Since the shimmy is gone, but DW happens on the sharper bumps that would previously just induce a bad shimmy for a second, I think the flex in the steering box was absorbing some of the energy of the sharp bumps leading to the bad shimmy. Now with the sector shaft brace the flex in the steering box is now gone so the energy is fully deflected back into the rest of the suspension, which then causes the DW.
   5. This is purely a theory, but based on the fact that the day after installation of the brace, on smaller bumps that just the day (and many weeks) before consistently caused a minor but noticeable shimmy, now the steering is tight. But on larger, sharper bumps, that had been causing a bad shimmy (very occasionally DW), now go straight to DW.

And this is where I am at this point. These are the only things I know to do, but haven't done yet, to correct the DW.

1. Balanced tires. I'm getting new tires anyway, so I've thought what's the point? Besides, on smooth surfaces the steering is tight up to 75mph and beyond. In my experience, out of balance tires, almost always cause some amount of vibration and if bad enough will cause enough vibration that will cause the driver to only drive so fast.
2. Rear suspension. I've not even looked at it or retorqued the connections. I doubt this is the cause of my DW, but I should probably do this.
3. Ball Joints. These are also on my upgrade plan, but wanted to get the most out of the stock joints as I can. I've not focused here yet because my past experience with bad ball joints, including the JK I had prior to getting my JL, is that they will induce regular vibration, even on perfectly smooth surfaces. Also, with bad ball joints in my JK, driving the same roads I drive now, I never once had any DW. With my JL, even now if i'm on a relatively smooth surface the steering is nice and tight even beyond 75mph.

The more I read about DW, and other's experiences with it and solving it, I think my ball joints are my problem.

Does anyone else have any suggestions?

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[Kahuna]

I am guessing you researched a ton already. There is this checklist which likely you saw already.
https://www.ironrockoffroad.com/Merchant2/DeathWobbleChecklist.pdf

and this one
https://www.ironrockoffroad.com/Merchant2/Steering Shimmy elimination checklist.pdf

and video

 

[dragoneggs]

Following... I'm looking into Dynatrack BJ's now. I'm fortunate to live 5mi away from Northridge4x4 who did my lift. I will stop by there this week and see what they have to say.

 

[Roky]

In early November I had a MC 3.5 GC lift. At that point I had 42k miles on my stock Rubi suspension. I had 35s since day one and in all those miles I never had a hint of shimmy, DW, or any sort of steering issues.

Imediately after getting my Jeep back I started noticing steering issues. The Jeep would wander, especially on uneven surfaces. On sharper bumps there was a shimmy in the steering; on a couple occasions in the first few days this evolved into death wobble. Prior to this I had heard of DW, but never experienced it, now I had. I also had never felt a shimmy in the steering quite like that. I continued to drive it to work that week and there was no more DW and the more I drove it, it seemed like the shimmy was going away, or wasn't as bad so I just lived with it. By mid November the only thing that continued to really bother me was the wandering or flightiness, but after continued driving it bothered me less and less.

It should be noted that all of my driving since having the lift installed has been around home and on my daily commute to work and back. All roads I have driven are hard surface roads that I am very familiar with and have been driving for years. I've not done any off-roading since the lift.

My plan was/is to get new tires (37s) sometime in March. Before that I wanted to make upgrades that I knew were needed if going to 37s. I was/am hoping to have the shimmy and DW solved before getting the 37s. So after the new year I started working on it. Here is what I've done up to now and the results.

1. Checked torque (did not loosen first) on all front suspension and steering parts. The driver side LCA was a bit under torqued at the frame. I torqued to 190 ft/lbs.
   1. This had no impact.
2. I measured caster and discovered it was only 1.8 degrees. I lengthened the LCAs and caster is now 6.2 degrees. While doing this I retorqued (after first loosening) all connections on front suspension steering parts. After loosening and prior to retorqing I got on the front bumper and jumped up and down to try to get everything to settle. This same day I also checked my toe alignment. It was toed in 1/16th to 1/8. This seemed to be within recommended spec so I left as is.
   1. Adjusting the caster fixed the wandering/flightyness but did nothing for the shimmy/DW issue
3. The following week I installed 9/16" trackbar bolts in the front. These are a bit larger than the stock 14mm bolts and are intended to reduce play in the trackbar connections.
   1. This got rid of the shimmy for a week and for that week I thought I had solved my problems.
   2. A week later the shimmy came back and I had my first episode of DW in quite a while
4. The next week I installed all new steering components. These were all part of my orignal upgrade plan.
   1. SS Yeti Tie Rod
      1. Toe in is 1/16th
   2. SS Yeti Drag link with Griffen attenuator
   3. SS Steering Stabilizer
   4. All of this had no impact on shimmy
5. After all the steering components had no impact I ordered and installed (this past Thursday) the SS sector shaft brace. This was not part of my original upgrade plan, but hoped it would fix the shimmy.
   1. From what I can tell I think this fixed the shimmy, HOWEVER, it brought back the DW in a big way.
   2. Now when I hit bumps that previously caused a bad shimmy, there is no shimmy and it goes straight to DW. On smaller bumps that would cause a noticeable, but not bad shimmy, the steering is now tight.
   3. The sector shaft brace is intended to reduce the flex in the steering box on the steering nut where the pitman arm is connected.
   4. Since the shimmy is gone, but DW happens on the sharper bumps that would previously just induce a bad shimmy for a second, I think the flex in the steering box was absorbing some of the energy of the sharp bumps leading to the bad shimmy. Now with the sector shaft brace the flex in the steering box is now gone so the energy is fully deflected back into the rest of the suspension, which then causes the DW.
   5. This is purely a theory, but based on the fact that the day after installation of the brace, on smaller bumps that just the day (and many weeks) before consistently caused a minor but noticeable shimmy, now the steering is tight. But on larger, sharper bumps, that had been causing a bad shimmy (very occasionally DW), now go straight to DW.

And this is where I am at this point. These are the only things I know to do, but haven't done yet, to correct the DW.

1. Balanced tires. I'm getting new tires anyway, so I've thought what's the point? Besides, on smooth surfaces the steering is tight up to 75mph and beyond. In my experience, out of balance tires, almost always cause some amount of vibration and if bad enough will cause enough vibration that will cause the driver to only drive so fast.
2. Rear suspension. I've not even looked at it or retorqued the connections. I doubt this is the cause of my DW, but I should probably do this.
3. Ball Joints. These are also on my upgrade plan, but wanted to get the most out of the stock joints as I can. I've not focused here yet because my past experience with bad ball joints, including the JK I had prior to getting my JL, is that they will induce regular vibration, even on perfectly smooth surfaces. Also, with bad ball joints in my JK, driving the same roads I drive now, I never once had any DW. With my JL, even now if i'm on a relatively smooth surface the steering is nice and tight even beyond 75mph.

The more I read about DW, and other's experiences with it and solving it, I think my ball joints are my problem.

Does anyone else have any suggestions?

After reading what you’ve done, and as many miles you have on it, ball joints is likely the problem….I’ve seen these go as early as 8K and I’ve seen them last 60K….. also they don’t always present they’re bad by the standard crowbar under the tire test…….

 

[rohdawg]

I think my ball joints are my problem

I’ll bet you’re right. You’ve done the laundry list and then some. You may have to go back through your other suspension components after you get new ball joints in just to make sure everything is still where it should be spec wise.
If ball joints don’t do it it’s time to call an exorcist.
I hope the ball joints work out for you.

 

[AVGeek99]

If ball joints don’t do it it’s time to call an exorcist.

I really hope it doesn't come to that. But at this point it feels like it may be necessary.

 

[AVGeek99]

I did the pry bar under the tires test today and the ball joints seem fine. But as many have said, this is not always conclusive. I've tried everything else. Besides tires, ball joints are next on my upgrade list. So the question is, which ones?

I know the DTs are pretty much the gold standard. But I know TeraFlex and MetalCloak both offer upgraded joints. And the MCs are rebuildable like the DTs, not sure about the TF. Anyone have experience with either the TF or MC ball joints?

 

[BUSHRVN]

Unit hub wheel bearings are a possibility too. Although you’d think you’d hear them if they had that much play.
Wheel lug nuts torqued to spec?

 

[Ryan long]

In early November I had a MC 3.5 GC lift. At that point I had 42k miles on my stock Rubi suspension. I had 35s since day one and in all those miles I never had a hint of shimmy, DW, or any sort of steering issues.

Imediately after getting my Jeep back I started noticing steering issues. The Jeep would wander, especially on uneven surfaces. On sharper bumps there was a shimmy in the steering; on a couple occasions in the first few days this evolved into death wobble. Prior to this I had heard of DW, but never experienced it, now I had. I also had never felt a shimmy in the steering quite like that. I continued to drive it to work that week and there was no more DW and the more I drove it, it seemed like the shimmy was going away, or wasn't as bad so I just lived with it. By mid November the only thing that continued to really bother me was the wandering or flightiness, but after continued driving it bothered me less and less.

It should be noted that all of my driving since having the lift installed has been around home and on my daily commute to work and back. All roads I have driven are hard surface roads that I am very familiar with and have been driving for years. I've not done any off-roading since the lift.

My plan was/is to get new tires (37s) sometime in March. Before that I wanted to make upgrades that I knew were needed if going to 37s. I was/am hoping to have the shimmy and DW solved before getting the 37s. So after the new year I started working on it. Here is what I've done up to now and the results.

1. Checked torque (did not loosen first) on all front suspension and steering parts. The driver side LCA was a bit under torqued at the frame. I torqued to 190 ft/lbs.
   1. This had no impact.
2. I measured caster and discovered it was only 1.8 degrees. I lengthened the LCAs and caster is now 6.2 degrees. While doing this I retorqued (after first loosening) all connections on front suspension steering parts. After loosening and prior to retorqing I got on the front bumper and jumped up and down to try to get everything to settle. This same day I also checked my toe alignment. It was toed in 1/16th to 1/8. This seemed to be within recommended spec so I left as is.
   1. Adjusting the caster fixed the wandering/flightyness but did nothing for the shimmy/DW issue
3. The following week I installed 9/16" trackbar bolts in the front. These are a bit larger than the stock 14mm bolts and are intended to reduce play in the trackbar connections.
   1. This got rid of the shimmy for a week and for that week I thought I had solved my problems.
   2. A week later the shimmy came back and I had my first episode of DW in quite a while
4. The next week I installed all new steering components. These were all part of my orignal upgrade plan.
   1. SS Yeti Tie Rod
      1. Toe in is 1/16th
   2. SS Yeti Drag link with Griffen attenuator
   3. SS Steering Stabilizer
   4. All of this had no impact on shimmy
5. After all the steering components had no impact I ordered and installed (this past Thursday) the SS sector shaft brace. This was not part of my original upgrade plan, but hoped it would fix the shimmy.
   1. From what I can tell I think this fixed the shimmy, HOWEVER, it brought back the DW in a big way.
   2. Now when I hit bumps that previously caused a bad shimmy, there is no shimmy and it goes straight to DW. On smaller bumps that would cause a noticeable, but not bad shimmy, the steering is now tight.
   3. The sector shaft brace is intended to reduce the flex in the steering box on the steering nut where the pitman arm is connected.
   4. Since the shimmy is gone, but DW happens on the sharper bumps that would previously just induce a bad shimmy for a second, I think the flex in the steering box was absorbing some of the energy of the sharp bumps leading to the bad shimmy. Now with the sector shaft brace the flex in the steering box is now gone so the energy is fully deflected back into the rest of the suspension, which then causes the DW.
   5. This is purely a theory, but based on the fact that the day after installation of the brace, on smaller bumps that just the day (and many weeks) before consistently caused a minor but noticeable shimmy, now the steering is tight. But on larger, sharper bumps, that had been causing a bad shimmy (very occasionally DW), now go straight to DW.

And this is where I am at this point. These are the only things I know to do, but haven't done yet, to correct the DW.

1. Balanced tires. I'm getting new tires anyway, so I've thought what's the point? Besides, on smooth surfaces the steering is tight up to 75mph and beyond. In my experience, out of balance tires, almost always cause some amount of vibration and if bad enough will cause enough vibration that will cause the driver to only drive so fast.
2. Rear suspension. I've not even looked at it or retorqued the connections. I doubt this is the cause of my DW, but I should probably do this.
3. Ball Joints. These are also on my upgrade plan, but wanted to get the most out of the stock joints as I can. I've not focused here yet because my past experience with bad ball joints, including the JK I had prior to getting my JL, is that they will induce regular vibration, even on perfectly smooth surfaces. Also, with bad ball joints in my JK, driving the same roads I drive now, I never once had any DW. With my JL, even now if i'm on a relatively smooth surface the steering is nice and tight even beyond 75mph.

The more I read about DW, and other's experiences with it and solving it, I think my ball joints are my problem.

Does anyone else have any suggestions?

All the guys at MC are super nice and helpful. Call them they love talking about jeeps

 

[Steveo]

Ball Joints FTNW. (For The No Wobble)

 

[JL_Jeff]

I ended up with the dreaded shimmy and death wobble last year. I went through same/very similar changes to eradicate it. Ended up installing the DT ball joints and no longer have death wobble or shimmy. I hope that is the solution for you.

 

[Themistocles]

I have a 2020 with a 2.5 Clayton on 35's (at the time....now 37s). I got my first post pothole shimmy a bit after 40K miles. Over about 5 weeks it developed into real DW. I have experienced the stop to stop shake you off the road DW in my Ram, and didn't want any part of that again, so chased the problem pretty fast.

My fix was:
1. Steel Steering Box (replaced free by dealer)
2. New DT ball joints
3. Reid Racing knuckles
4. Fox ATS Steering Stabilizer
5. SS Sector Shaft Brace
6. Caster to 6.2
7. Retorque everything

Steering is now rock solid, and not a shimmy or hint of DW in the year or so since I did it. Not sure if it was one of those things, or a combination that did it. But whatever it was that combo did the trick.

 

[Upnarms]

What track bar. Maybe i missed it but didn't see what track bar you are running. SS yeti xd with pro bushing is my recommendation. Also ditch the SS stabilizer for a fox or falcon THROUGH SHAFT stabilizer.

How many miles on your tires. What are your tires. If they are high miles, i would bet new tires cause the issues to go away. Older, worn tires don't balance right even if they claim to be. More true with MTs but i found it true with ATs like ko2s at 23k miles

 

[dragoneggs]

What track bar. Maybe i missed it but didn't see what track bar you are running. SS yeti xd with pro bushing is my recommendation. Also ditch the SS stabilizer for a fox or falcon THROUGH SHAFT stabilizer.

How many miles on your tires. What are your tires. If they are high miles, i would bet new tires cause the issues to go away. Older, worn tires don't balance right even if they claim to be. More true with MTs but i found it true with ATs like ko2s at 23k miles

Track bar is 1yr old from Clayton as part of their Overland+ 1.5in lift kit. The OEM KO2 tires have 10K miles as well as the vehicle with one wheel rotation performed.

Before the lift, I replaced my OEM steering stabilizer with a 140lb Exact Center stabilizer mainly due to flat towing my JLR behind my Class C RV. Northridge speculated that flat towing can be hard on steering components. This has worked well as its design is such that the wheels tend to return to center. That said, I would guess I have about 3K toad miles.

https://www.etrailer.com/Anti-Sway-...QxbRTn-N6fijMMKnPoEmyJE_1dlt3XxgaAjyuEALw_wcB

 

[AVGeek99]

What track bar. Maybe i missed it but didn't see what track bar you are running. SS yeti xd with pro bushing is my recommendation. Also ditch the SS stabilizer for a fox or falcon THROUGH SHAFT stabilizer.

How many miles on your tires. What are your tires. If they are high miles, i would bet new tires cause the issues to go away. Older, worn tires don't balance right even if they claim to be. More true with MTs but i found it true with ATs like ko2s at 23k miles

In my case I have the MC track bar that came with the lift, installed in November. My tires are Cooper STT Pros 315x70 17 with 44k miles on them. They have worn evenly and have decent tread left on them. I will be replacing them in the next few weeks. Going to 37x12.5x17. Perhaps the tires are contributing to the issue, but not the only issue. Will do ball joints first, then tires.

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