Botched winch install

[GATORB8]

I don't think Ram puts a fuse on the Power Wagon winch, Anybody know if they do on the rubicon with winch option?............

Not on the Mopar one:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/rp-part-images/assets/3ac06b3c37e0742486dbc5704c7787f8.PDF

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[Zandcwhite]

So you have no official experience in responding to a vehicle accident or putting out a vehicle fire?

Nope, but batteries in modern vehicles are held in by plastic retainers and dislodge and short causing far more vehicle fires in accidents than winches. Further, if my Jeeps got hit that hard, airbags deployed, frame bent, etc it's totaled so I don't care if it burns to the ground. That's what insurance is for. Power wagons have come with un-fused 16k winches for 2 decades from the factory, if it was a problem there'd be a lawsuit and subsequent recall. Be as scared as you'd like. Even the manufacturers don't recommend fuses. That's a made up, modern fear state, internet "issue"

 

[Atomic-Mouse]

Nope,

“Nope” That’s all you really needed to say.
For someone with absolutely no official fire training, first responder or real world experience to say an unfused 2 gauge cable can’t possibly start a fire is like me telling a brain surgeon the fastest way to the frontal lobe is through the rectum. Heads up, not everyone is lucky enough to walk away from an accident. When every second counts, anyone trapped inside a burning vehicle would sell their soul for a $60 shut off solenoid/fuse if it happened to be the one thing that avoided an excruciating death or even gave a loved one the chance to escape. We are not all magically protected by your good fortune of never being involved in a vehicle accident or fire. I have been on my local fire department since 1994 and have seen a few things that I wish I hadn’t.
Out of all the mods people do to Jeeps you seem to have a huge issue with someone who dares to take precautions against a potential fire. Like some tyrannical dictator you belittle anyone who dares to defy your strict Jeep standards and centuries (yes I know a century is 100 years) of extensive knowledge just because it wasn’t added or suggested by the manufacturer. How many other mods aren’t suggested by the manufacturer but done anyway I wonder.

I wish you a long and happy life but I have spent enough of my time on someone who absolutely refuses to see both sides of the argument just because you haven’t had a fire. I hope your luck continues for you and your family.

Are winch cut offs or fuses absolutely necessary? No.
Can a cut off or fuse help prevent a potential fire? Absolutely.

You seem like someone who has to have the last word, so go ahead I’m not going to see it, luckily this forum has an ignore button.
Enjoy,

 

[azjl#3]

You wouldn’t be touching anything I own…
Read up…. https://offroadpull.com/winch/fuse-need/

Dude, like second line in that "article" and and I use the term article loosely, says this:

Technically, a fuse isn’t mandatory for a winch.

 

[azjl#3]

All you people that insist a fuse is necessary for a winch don’t forget to add a fuse to your starter cable as it may see similar currents.

Boom, this^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Zandcwhite]

“Nope” That’s all you really needed to say.
For someone with absolutely no official fire training, first responder or real world experience to say an unfused 2 gauge cable can’t possibly start a fire is like me telling a brain surgeon the fastest way to the frontal lobe is through the rectum. Heads up, not everyone is lucky enough to walk away from an accident. When every second counts, anyone trapped inside a burning vehicle would sell their soul for a $60 shut off solenoid/fuse if it happened to be the one thing that avoided an excruciating death or even gave a loved one the chance to escape. We are not all magically protected by your good fortune of never being involved in a vehicle accident or fire. I have been on my local fire department since 1994 and have seen a few things that I wish I hadn’t.
Out of all the mods people do to Jeeps you seem to have a huge issue with someone who dares to take precautions against a potential fire. Like some tyrannical dictator you belittle anyone who dares to defy your strict Jeep standards and centuries (yes I know a century is 100 years) of extensive knowledge just because it wasn’t added or suggested by the manufacturer. How many other mods aren’t suggested by the manufacturer but done anyway I wonder.

I wish you a long and happy life but I have spent enough of my time on someone who absolutely refuses to see both sides of the argument just because you haven’t had a fire. I hope your luck continues for you and your family.

Are winch cut offs or fuses absolutely necessary? No.
Can a cut off or fuse help prevent a potential fire? Absolutely.

You seem like someone who has to have the last word, so go ahead I’m not going to see it, luckily this forum has an ignore button.
Enjoy,

"I'm a fireman, I know more about winches than warn, the entire winch industry, fca, and everyone that's ever installed a winch without a fuse"
"I'm a fireman, I know more about DC wiring than every electrician who's ever wired up massive battery banks for data centers (they aren't typically fused either)"
"I'm going to quote you, but don't respond because I'm going to bury my head in the sand as my way is the only way no matter who disagrees"
Cool, like I said you do you. If fusing was anywhere near the safety risk the internet or your local fireman claims, oems would include them. Winch manufacturers would have warning labels and statements on the box even if they didn't include the fuse with the winch. They don't because it's not an issue. If adding one makes you feel better, go for it. But to argue it's the right way despite what the industry as a whole says is just silly.

 

[Bill_P]

I hid my winch fuse in the oversized duck I mounted to my angry grill right next to my Amsoil overflow tank. There, now this thread should get REALLY interesting

 

[tehfrr]

Correct, this is the winch:
STEGODON 13000 LBS

The winch was new. Yesterday I was told it wasn't the installers fault, the winch was bad. Today I was told the installer F-d it up. That's all the details I was able to get at this time.

Regarding fusing the winch.. I'm running a WARN Zeon 12-S platinum. Haven't seen much in the way of 500 amp fuses. Upgraded the cables to 1/0 and installed a 500 amp solenoid that only provides power when the engine is running and a toggle switch that's illuminated when live is closed. If there's anything else I can do to improve it I'm open to suggestions.

 

[fourfa]

Bluesea makes ANL fuses and fuse blocks that won’t be hard to find install space for, with 400/500/600/750 amp options

 

[THAW]

The problem with fusing a winch is the fuse doesn't provide very useful in-service protection since supplied/internal wiring is spec'ed based on intermittent use. If you size the fuse (in the proper way) to protect wiring, it will blow under normal winching conditions; if you size the fuse for peak draw, the wiring could melt without blowing the fuse.

It's important to avoid overheating winch components - including wiring - by following cooldown interval recommendations. I use a disconnect to protect against accidental short circuit.

 

[smokeythecat]

To me it looks like no fuse, direct connect to battery

Hm, I'm not sure mine has a fuse, either. Then again, mine is disconnected with a switch 100% of the time that I am not using it.

 

[Zandcwhite]

The problem with fusing a winch is the fuse doesn't provide very useful in-service protection since supplied/internal wiring is spec'ed based on intermittent use. If you size the fuse (in the proper way) to protect wiring, it will blow under normal conditions; if you size the fuse for peak draw, the wiring could melt without blowing the fuse.

It's important to avoid overheating winch components - including wiring - by following cooldown interval recommendations. I use a disconnect to protect against accidental short circuit.

Finally someone who actually understands wire ampacity. A 500A fuse does nothing to protect the cable that is likely rated for ~200A on your typical winch install. The wire will melt from overcurrent before the fuse will blow. Odds are the fuse will blow quick enough in a dead short, but even that isn't guaranteed. In something like a vehicle accident, the short could be a high enough resistance to not blow the fuse but still set your Jeep on fire. If you're worried about potential shorts you're better off with a disconnect, which some manufacturers do now recommend and/or provide. There's a reason none of them recommend fusing, it's mostly pointless.

 

[azjl#3]

^^^this

 

[YBABRAT]

Just reading from the top down here. Let's say you get a 1500W winch. How many amps does it take to turn it on and how many amps to keep it turning under load? Two different numbers. Your 1500w rating is close to load current. Cranking it should be a lot less due to the cable having slack.

Let's say you get a 250A fuse. Will it cover the operational current requirements? It does meet alternator output requirements Let's find out...

250A x 14.4v (Given engine is running at RPM to keep current stable) = 3,600w. That is enough to run two 1500w winches.

Now let's say your positive cable gets shorted at the frame. Theoretically making your 1 gauge cable half it's length at the shorted segment going to positive post. Ground cable to winch being shorted or not has no baring as shortest path to ground is at frame. Remember cable length being shorter requires less gauge to allow same current as the thicker gauge cable. Technically the wire will not heat up as much as the full length cable if shorted at the winch.

Why has not anyone spoken up about using a 120A circuit breaker from positive post to winch positive cable? Simple and effective to me.

I'd you trip the circuit breaker using a 1500w winch, maybe it's not the current rating of the breaker needing to be larger. It might just be you need to let it sit and cool it off, then reset the breaker.

 

[Zandcwhite]

Just reading from the top down here. Let's say you get a 1500W winch. How many amps does it take to turn it on and how many amps to keep it turning under load? Two different numbers. Your 1500w rating is close to load current. Cranking it should be a lot less due to the cable having slack.

Let's say you get a 250A fuse. Will it cover the operational current requirements? It does meet alternator output requirements Let's find out...

250A x 14.4v (Given engine is running at RPM to keep current stable) = 3,600w. That is enough to run two 1500w winches.

Now let's say your positive cable gets shorted at the frame. Theoretically making your 1 gauge cable half it's length at the shorted segment going to positive post. Ground cable to winch being shorted or not has no baring as shortest path to ground is at frame. Remember cable length being shorter requires less gauge to allow same current as the thicker gauge cable. Technically the wire will not heat up as much as the full length cable if shorted at the winch.

Why has not anyone spoken up about using a 120A circuit breaker from positive post to winch positive cable? Simple and effective to me.

I'd you trip the circuit breaker using a 1500w winch, maybe it's not the current rating of the breaker needing to be larger. It might just be you need to let it sit and cool it off, then reset the breaker.

Where did you even find a winch rated in watts? My winch and a few others from a quick search don't even list that spec. They list the hp of the motor, which you can use to calculate watts. The 6.6hp motor works out to...5k watts. Your 1500 watt example might represent a small atv winch. My winch also lists 425A at full pull. No your 120A circuit breaker won't work. Any breaker big enough for that amp draw is way oversized for the wire rating unless you have your winch wired with 600kcmil cable. Again the breaker is pointless. A simple disconnect switch provides all the benefits without the drawbacks of cost and potential nuisance tripping.

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