3.6 engine and 87 octane a no-no

[Hound Dog]

Hmmm. Can't run the gas it was designed to run on.

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[Petey]

Tuner is the only way to change your OEM calibration. Without tuner, 93 octane is the only answer for pinning.
If you are not renting your wrangler and planning to keep for good amount of years, get a tuner ($499, on sale). Better MPG, better shifting, smoother running engine and more power (even with 87 octane ) will be worth it.
You can always sell tuner once you sell your Jeep and recoupe half of the cost.

Will be looking into this.

 

[Petey]

I will certainly ask him. I've seen several folks complain about pinging, so I'll see if he knows the solution if that issue crops up.

Thanks , will be waiting attentlly

 

[JLRyder]

FCA spent thousands of engineering man hours and millions of dollars developing/refining this engine. Follow the owners manual, they know what they are doing.

 

[m3reno]

I have no pinging when on high octane and some pinging on low octane, all on shell gasoline

 

[Petey]

I have no pinging when on high octane and some pinging on low octane, all on shell gasoline

Yup , I think most of the JL owners either think it's not a problem or doesn't exist . ping is no good and actually reduces power . And for me it was in the low rpm range where it's most important. But that's where it typically is.

 

[Bruce Willys]

FCA spent thousands of engineering man hours and millions of dollars developing/refining this engine. Follow the owners manual, they know what they are doing.

They should have spent an extra 10 hours and bought the guys a box of pizza to figure out how to paint the door hinges correctly.

 

[Petey]

They should have spent an extra 10 hours and bought the guys a box of pizza to figure out how to paint the door hinges correctly.

I second that , what people don't get is , even if the ingenious engine engineers are Gods they don't factor in the quotient of the people who just assemble. and manufacture. Jeep has proven that so and on many levels from what I see. I really see these little green men now.

 

[Creeker]

While the owners manual states that 87 is OK, the pinging (pre-detonation or engine knocking) one hears is not good. How much damage does the pinging cause, who knows.

With regards to FCA spending time developing, testing, etc., does one really believe that the FCA is going to get everything right?

For my 3.6 JLR w/manual gear box JLR, 93 octane is used. When wheeling, 93 octane all gas is used for that little bit of extra power. Since the Jeep works hard to take care of me on the trail, I should take care of the Jeep by using the best fuel possible.

Does 93 octane or 93 all gas make a difference, I think it does.

Just my $0.015 worth.

 

[DanW]

Yup , I think most of the JL owners either think it's not a problem or doesn't exist . ping is no good and actually reduces power . And for me it was in the low rpm range where it's most important. But that's where it typically is.

Light pinging will not damage the engine. But I still wouldn't want it

While the owners manual states that 87 is OK, the pinging (pre-detonation or engine knocking) one hears is not good. How much damage does the pinging cause, who knows.

With regards to FCA spending time developing, testing, etc., does one really believe that the FCA is going to get everything right?

For my 3.6 JLR w/manual gear box JLR, 93 octane is used. When wheeling, 93 octane all gas is used for that little bit of extra power. Since the Jeep works hard to take care of me on the trail, I should take care of the Jeep by using the best fuel possible.

Does 93 octane or 93 all gas make a difference, I think it does.

Just my $0.015 worth.

Ok, here is the first part of the response from the Pentastar design team engineer. I quoted you because you talked about engine damage.

Light pinging will NOT cause engine damage. The kind that will damage an engine is heavy and very loud and is only seen on an engine that has a significant problem.

There are many variables that cause pinging, with fuel octane being one. Fuel quality is another. Ambient conditions can affect it, too He listed a couple other things that I don't understand. But the first and easiest thing he said to do is go up in octane.

The good news: He said that the Pentastar DOES benefit from higher octane. But only slightly. He said 3 horsepower max. Not 5 and no way 10. So I stand partially corrected on that one.

Here are a couple of other interesting facts he shared. First, an engine will gain 1% hp with every 10 degree drop in ambient temperature. So you go from summer to fall and you'll gain horsepower right there. If the guy claiming 10hp ran higher octane on a significantly cooler day than he ran the 87, he could see close to 10hp and think it was all due to the octane.

Another interesting thing is that the Pentastar (pre-PUG generations) actually makes 5 horsepower less than it is rated due to the backward alternator and accessory drive. He said, "That thing sucks up a lot of power to move!" He was not on the PUG design team, so he said while likely the same, it could possibly have been improved.

Also very interestingly, he said the Pentastar actually runs smoother on higher octane fuel than 87. He runs 89 in his. He said it isn't a power thing but a "part load thing." Remember, he's seen the NVH measuring equipment during testing of the engines, so if he says there is a difference, it has been measured objectively. He says he can feel it with his. I'm going to fill up with 89 or 93 next tank to see if I can detect it. I've run 93 a couple times and didn't feel any power difference, but I wasn't looking for smoothness. I'll pay attention to that this time.

For those curious, he drives a 2013 Chrysler 300 with about 170k miles on his Pentastar. He's had zero issues with it and is VERY passionate about that engine. It's his baby, after all. Lol! He loves talking about it.

He is swamped with his company right now due to Black Friday, so I'm still waiting to hear back from him on what a dealership service department can do for anyone whose Pentastar might be prone to pinging on 87 gas.

I'll post up when he responds.

By the way, if curious, his company is OilUdder.com. I'm not affiliated in any way. Ironically, his product doesn't work with the Pentastar. It only works with traditional can-type oil filters. That's what he does now. He's also busy developing some new engine maintenance related products, so that adds to the delay in responses to some of our questions.

 

[JLRyder]

So somehow this engine that has past the 10 million mark in the production run; installed in Dodge, Chrysler, Jeep, Ram, and Maserati; has been tested in the real world/worst case scenarios of stop and go delivery vehicles with 700+ thousand miles; and has been around for almost 10 years now has poor development and testing?

Let’s get real, stop arm chair quarterbacking, and not loose credibility here.

Quality control in complicated machines in high numbers is hard, but the subject here is 87 octane, so different posts are out there to cover that.

My concern is that this Google searchable thread will mis-inform people, convince them to buy expensive fuel they don’t need to prevent something that is happening in a small percentage of the product.

If the OP just needed to vent/rant about his pinging issues, then let’s take it for just that.

 

[DanW]

So somehow this engine that has past the 10 million mark in the production run; installed in Dodge, Chrysler, Jeep, Ram, and Maserati; has been tested in the real world/worst case scenarios of stop and go delivery vehicles with 700+ thousand miles; and has been around for almost 10 years now has poor development and testing?

Let’s get real, stop arm chair quarterbacking, and not loose credibility here.

Quality control in complicated machines in high numbers is hard, but the subject here is 87 octane, so different posts are out there to cover that.

My concern is that this Google searchable thread will mis-inform people, convince them to buy expensive fuel they don’t need to prevent something that is happening in a small percentage of the product.

If the OP just needed to vent/rant about his pinging issues, then let’s take it for just that.

Yep. It is not a common problem. But it does happen and it sucks for the guy who is experiencing it. So really, folks here are just trying to help him. We'll see what Kevin says about what can be done to fix it.

Hopefully it isn't a hard fix.

 

[Petey]

Light pinging will not damage the engine. But I still wouldn't want it


Ok, here is the first part of the response from the Pentastar design team engineer. I quoted you because you talked about engine damage.

Light pinging will NOT cause engine damage. The kind that will damage an engine is heavy and very loud and is only seen on an engine that has a significant problem.

There are many variables that cause pinging, with fuel octane being one. Fuel quality is another. Ambient conditions can affect it, too He listed a couple other things that I don't understand. But the first and easiest thing he said to do is go up in octane.

The good news: He said that the Pentastar DOES benefit from higher octane. But only slightly. He said 3 horsepower max. Not 5 and no way 10. So I stand partially corrected on that one.

Here are a couple of other interesting facts he shared. First, an engine will gain 1% hp with every 10 degree drop in ambient temperature. So you go from summer to fall and you'll gain horsepower right there. If the guy claiming 10hp ran higher octane on a significantly cooler day than he ran the 87, he could see close to 10hp and think it was all due to the octane.

Another interesting thing is that the Pentastar (pre-PUG generations) actually makes 5 horsepower less than it is rated due to the backward alternator and accessory drive. He said, "That thing sucks up a lot of power to move!" He was not on the PUG design team, so he said while likely the same, it could possibly have been improved.

Also very interestingly, he said the Pentastar actually runs smoother on higher octane fuel than 87. He runs 89 in his. He said it isn't a power thing but a "part load thing." Remember, he's seen the NVH measuring equipment during testing of the engines, so if he says there is a difference, it has been measured objectively. He says he can feel it with his. I'm going to fill up with 89 or 93 next tank to see if I can detect it. I've run 93 a couple times and didn't feel any power difference, but I wasn't looking for smoothness. I'll pay attention to that this time.

For those curious, he drives a 2013 Chrysler 300 with about 170k miles on his Pentastar. He's had zero issues with it and is VERY passionate about that engine. It's his baby, after all. Lol! He loves talking about it.

He is swamped with his company right now due to Black Friday, so I'm still waiting to hear back from him on what a dealership service department can do for anyone whose Pentastar might be prone to pinging on 87 gas.

I'll post up when he responds.

By the way, if curious, his company is OilUdder.com. I'm not affiliated in any way. Ironically, his product doesn't work with the Pentastar. It only works with traditional can-type oil filters. That's what he does now. He's also busy developing some new engine maintenance related products, so that adds to the delay in responses to some of our questions.

Thanks, cooler air intake is known to do this on all engines. The higher octane helps with spark advance. But quite frankly, I'm not looking for more horsepower. Maybe bottom end torque and a bit quieter engine is my goal.

 

[DanW]

Thanks, cooler air intake is known to do this on all engines. The higher octane helps with spark advance. But quite frankly, I'm not looking for more horsepower. Maybe bottom end torque and a bit quieter engine is my goal.

Yep, he said engines in general, not just the Pentastar. I'd bet if the higher octane smoothes it out a little that it would be perceived as quieter. I'm going to try it out. Nothing to lose. Except cash, if it turns out to work, Lol!

 

[TrailTorque]

I can’t get past the words “our cars”.

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