WTF Jeep?

[BamaJeepTruck]

That w

Nothing was stolen in either of the two threads. it's just that in one thread people were advocating bodily harm, while in the other the actions were mostly applauded. That was my point. It's like nobody ever read the Fifth Amendment in grade school.

I'd hate to see what happens when people come across a "bathroom out of order" sign that they think doesn't apply to them.

That would depend on the situation. If its a public restroom and I test the toilet and it works, you best your ass I'm going to use it.

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[Echo4papa]

Well, we're getting into a lot of murkiness here. I'm calling it civil disobedience because that is what it ultimately was, regardless of whether the end user knew it or not. But what the end user knew opens up another can of worms. The end user knew the charger was labeled "out of order" and its use was restrained with a zip tie. What if there really was a technical malfunction and the charger fried their battery? Would the owner of the charger be responsible? I would say no. I don't like laws designed to protect people from their own ignorance and hold a non-ignorant entity responsible. If the charger was unmarked it would be a different story but the charger was marked as not useable and using it required breaking a restraint, albeit a weak one. That is sufficient notice that the charger should not be used IMO.

I think intent is required for civil disobedience, peacefully breaking a law because of ignorance is not the same thing as willfully breaking it in protest. I will say this though, NOW he knows that it's (presumably) the local government holding up this charging station from being available to the public, his continued use of the facility IS civil disobedience!

Also, I completely agree on your additional point. If it was actually out of order and somehow caused an electrical issue with his Jeep, I would say that the signage and zip ties would have been adequate to absolve the owner of responsibility. At the very least, it would give them the basis of a defense if they were sued.

 

[Mikester86]

He who lives with cracked windshield, shouldn't cast stones.....or some shit like that.

 

[OINC]

That would depend on the situation. If its a public restroom and I test the toilet and it works, you best your ass I'm going to use it.

How would you know it's not out of order because the outflow isn't connected to anything? Point is, things can be "out of order" for reasons you can't know or see. That's doubly true for something like an EVSE! If it's someone else's property, I think one should trust that the owner of the property knows what's best and respect their wishes.

 

[Petey]

Nope. Doesn't fly.
It was accurately signed. It was out of order. Not for technical or mechanical reasons but for permit reasons which is nevertheless required for use. In addition the use of the device required the breaking of a lock. A zip tie. Granted it is not a particularly strong lock but it is nevertheless a restraint designed to prohibit use that must be broken. Just because someone can break it doesn't mean they should. I can break both a zip tie and a padlock. What's the difference between breaking a zip tie or a padlock besides the ease of doing so? Both are breaking into a restraint.

I say it's civil disobedience as its only restricted because the local government hasn't gotten its ass in gear to permit it. The owner and the user have no issues and the government is in the way. When people say they're fine with something, screw you government, we're doing it no matter what you say... thats civil disobedience.

Are u saying that zip tie on a wire harness is no different than a padlock on a wire harness?
ok, sorry, just having fun here nothing more

 

[Reinen]

I think intent is required for civil disobedience, peacefully breaking a law because of ignorance is not the same thing as willfully breaking it in protest. I will say this though, NOW he knows that it's (presumably) the local government holding up this charging station from being available to the public, his continued use of the facility IS civil disobedience!

Also, I completely agree on your additional point. If it was actually out of order and somehow caused an electrical issue with his Jeep, I would say that the signage and zip ties would have been adequate to absolve the owner of responsibility. At the very least, it would give them the basis of a defense if they were sued.

I think we're on the same page. I'm just willing to give the end user the out of civil disobedience (albeit through ignorance) instead of calling it stupid because the outcome could have been very different if there was an actual technical malfunction.

 

[TJJL19]

Rolling power blackout, wait, I just shut my lights off, now you can power up!

 

[BamaJeepTruck]

How would you know it's not out of order because the outflow isn't connected to anything? Point is, things can be "out of order" for reasons you can't know or see. That's doubly true for something like an EVSE! If it's someone else's property, I think one should trust that the owner of the property knows what's best and respect their wishes.

I see your point, but in those situations any logical person would turn off the ability to the use whatever item. If you have a toilet going to nothing id imagine you would turn the water off to it. Just comes down to we don't agree on right and wrong in this situation.

 

[OINC]

Coal production is on the rise, at least it is in WV, TN, SWVA. They were almost shut down under Obama, but under Trump they began to rebound which in turn rebuilt the economy around our area at least.

I can't find data for 2020 (looks like that report won't be released until October), but it looks like coal production in the US has been relatively steady since 2016. Can't find handy graphs for Appalachia, and I don't care enough to go back and create one myself, so maybe it shifted from other regions.

And anyway, that doesn't mean it's being used for power generation.

Source: https://www.eia.gov/coal/annual/

ETA: looks like I misread the graph at the bottom of that page -- it's price per ton, which isn't correlated to use. Still, https://www.eia.gov/coal/annual/pdf/table26.pdf totals show another drop between 2018 and 2019 for coal used for power generation, and a drop in coal consumption in the US in general.

 

[OINC]

I see your point, but in those situations any logical person would turn off the ability to the use whatever item. If you have a toilet going to nothing id imagine you would turn the water off to it. Just comes down to we don't agree on right and wrong in this situation.

Flip side of the coin -- a logical person would also just ... find a different toilet/EVSE/whatever to use?

 

[BamaJeepTruck]

Flip side of the coin -- a logical person would also just ... find a different toilet/EVSE/whatever to use?

I disagree. If I'm there, it works, game on.

 

[csjlu]

I can't find data for 2020 (looks like that report won't be released until October), but it looks like coal production in the US has been relatively steady since 2016. Can't find handy graphs for Appalachia, and I don't care enough to go back and create one myself, so maybe it shifted from other regions.

And anyway, that doesn't mean it's being used for power generation.

Source: https://www.eia.gov/coal/annual/

ETA: looks like I misread the graph at the bottom of that page -- it's price per ton, which isn't correlated to use. Still, https://www.eia.gov/coal/annual/pdf/table26.pdf totals show another drop between 2018 and 2019 for coal used for power generation, and a drop in coal consumption in the US in general.

 

[OINC]

Yeah, so, coal is rapidly declining as a power source in the US, regardless of what's happening with production.

 

[gato]

It does not seem like a reasonable person would brag about theft on a public forum.

There is no theft, here.

It is a free charging station that was labeled "out of order". Consumers are well within their rights to check if something so labeled has been "fixed" and returned to function.

The OP did that, found out that it was NOT "out of order", so the "out of order" label was wrong and misleading. The OP then proceeded to use the FREE service as intended.

And good for the OP.

The analogy here is that there is a free to all soap dispenser in a bathroom labeled out of order. You try it anyway and soap comes out. Is that theft in your book?

 

[csjlu]

Yeah, so, coal is rapidly declining as a power source in the US, regardless of what's happening with production.

Share of coal production has been shifting toward metallurgic coal for a while now, as well as thermal/steaming coal for export to emerging markets.

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