Why Not A Rubicon?

[Vinman]

IMO, an equally outfitted non-Rubicon model, ie similar suspension mods and tire choice, can traverse at least 90% of the obstacles a Rubicon can.

During our last trip to Moab we had about 8 Jeeps and all but one were locked and on 35” or taller tires. The base model JK 2 dr with open diffs and 33” Duratracs completed every single obstacle on every single trail the rest of us did. He actually did a couple of obstacles nobody else even attempted.

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[ratherbskiing]

I ordered a diesel Willys as I'd get the same or similar wheels, gears, rails, shocks, brakes, and axles as a diesel Rubi but I would not be limited (speed) by the 4:1 TC that I really don't need. I also wanted the LSD over lockers as it's really the only system available from the factory that works in 2H. Unlike BLD, unlike lockers, unlike, select-trac 4H. I want that 2H 2-wheel peel with the 3.0D torque.

 

[MadChef]

My last Jeep was a 2000 Sahara and I drove it for 10 years. I’ve owned some pretty cool vehicles and that Jeep was hands down my favorite. Wanted another Sahara but unfortunately it doesn’t come in 2 door so I decided on the 80th anniversary as it’s as close as you can get. Thought about the Rubicon but felt the ride was a bit stiffer...and it was $10,000 more. Bought a 4Runner last year and went for the TRD off road instead of the pro for the exact same reason. Stiffer ride and $10,000 more. As with the 4Runner the Jeep will be for 95% street use...the other 5% mostly beach.

After driving my new Jeep JL80 for 1 month now I could not be happier. This thing is an absolute blast to drive. Zero comparison to my first Jeep which was a CJ5 and a vast improvement over my TJ.

Dreaming of warmer weather and the top down!

 

[bigfoot21075]

My last Jeep was a 2000 Sahara and I drove it for 10 years. I’ve owned some pretty cool vehicles and that Jeep was hands down my favorite. Wanted another Sahara but unfortunately it doesn’t come in 2 door so I decided on the 80th anniversary as it’s as close as you can get. Thought about the Rubicon but felt the ride was a bit stiffer...and it was $10,000 more. Bought a 4Runner last year and went for the TRD off road instead of the pro for the exact same reason. Stiffer ride and $10,000 more. As with the 4Runner the Jeep will be for 95% street use...the other 5% mostly beach.

After driving my new Jeep JL80 for 1 month now I could not be happier. This thing is an absolute blast to drive. Zero comparison to my first Jeep which was a CJ5 and a vast improvement over my TJ.

Dreaming of warmer weather and the top down!

That is a beauty too! The Mushroom Capital of the world is fairly close to some GREAT off roading, hope you take it out sometime....

 

[dgoodhue]

I priced out a Rubicon and it $6K more for same options I ordered for 80th. My only planned off roading is driving on a beach. I don't need a Rubicon to do that. I can do that in my Subaru Outback, but I can't do that with the top down

 

[Zandcwhite]

There are so many variables it's hard to recommend which way to go without an in depth conversation. We bought a fully optioned JLUR for a bunch of reasons. Wheeled it stock for a year, which we absolutely wouldn't have done in a sport with factory car tires. Even the rubicon on 33's drug it's belly far too often. We then went to a 2.5" spacer lift with shock extensions and 37's. Rode great on and off road and dominated every trail including our first moab trip last August. We've since upgraded a few more things like an engine skid, new long travel shocks, sliders with an extended rail, fad skid, steering stabilizer flip, and adjustable front lca's. The shocks and rails were literally the only rubicon specific features we've upgraded. The wider and stronger axles helped with fitting and running the 37's without needing to upgrade. The 4.10 gears allow us to run the 37's without regearing. The high fenders help with clearance as well. The 4-1 transfer case still supplies more than enough low gearing for crawling. Add in the creature comforts, convenience features, and beautiful interior and I just don't see the wife being as happy with her daily driver and our weekend warrior if we had went sport. The swaybar disconnect dramatically improves ride off road, but can be added cheaply on any jeep. The lockers are amazing when you need them, but you really don't need them all that often. Adding them is very expensive and they are a great safety net when you do get into a situation where you need them. Any wrangler is great off road, any wrangler can be improved upon. Buy what you want and/or will use. Aftermarket parts don't typically add resale value as well as factory options, so the rubicon will likely have a higher resale value too.

 

[News2me]

For me, I got a Rubicon because it was already "beefed up" from the factory. I did go through the build up of a JKU but I wanted everything done already. Approaching retirement, it gets harder and harder to justify getting better axles or gearing or bumpers or whatever over time. Works for me and that is the key. It will work differently for everyone and bottom line is, just get out and enjoy what you have!

 

[DirtyCreeker]

One aspect that I've not seen addressed (granted, I haven't read all 15 pages though) is how much do you want to finance vs just pay for? If you pay cash for it all, this is moot, but if you're financing your Jeep and get a Rubi, you're financing your lockers. If you get a sport and add them later, chances are you're paying cash for them.

I just built my Rubi and even then, there were some options that I chose not to get because I didn't want to finance them. For example, I've got the same floor mats I could've ordered, all paid for sitting in my garage waiting for the Jeep to arrive (I also got them significantly cheaper than the build price).

 

[roaniecowpony]

I'm older and now think more about my time and what I really want to do with it. Building a vehicle, any vehicle, is no longer how I want to spend my time. But if building a 4dr Jeep were the task, I'd probably buy a high mile JK, gut the entire driveline, engine, trans, xfer case and suspension, install aftermarket 44s, Atlas case, an LS all aluminum, and a 6 speed paddle shift auto.

I probably didn't need a Rubicon to hunt birds and tow behind a RV. But I wanted one and the cost difference between a Sport and Rubicon isn't a factor to me. Personally, I think I enjoy it more than I would have a Sport and I think it will sell easier when its time to get rid of it.

 

[Whiskey 13]

Look at the law of averages, the average person does not need a jeep to drive at Moab, the average person gets in there jeep drives to work and on weekends tries to find a place to have some fun. If modifying a rig is truly what you want to do buy a sport and go for the gusto, I have built several rigs in my past but now I want to get in and drive anywhere I want to go, with a few simple mods my Rubicon will get me there because I am average and that's just fine with me.

 

[txj2go]

I bought my JLU Sport specifically for adventure trips to Utah, although I don't plan on doing trails that would require a Rubicon. I contemplated a Grand Cherokee with mods but finally decided I would go for the Wrangler. I have Rubicon takeoff tires and suspension, and I'm looking for Rubicon rock rails. That might be the extent of my mods relative to trail use. I've been to Colorado 3 times with it, I'm planning a trip to Utah in a month or so.

 

[mattshotcha]

This is all very much a “your mileage may vary” situation. The moral of the story is that it depends on what you need/want/will do with the Jeep once you own it.

I will say one thing I either missed already said in this thread or hasn’t been said yet: Don’t sleep on the Willys.

I went to the dealer for a Rubicon, but wasn’t ordering. Had to look at what was on the lot. And what was on the lot didn’t grab me for the height of the window stickers if you know what I mean. Dealer showed me a Willys with add ons I actually was interested in. I would call it a well equipped one.

I went with it because honestly, for me, it’s enough. That’s the tricky part. Knowing when you are looking at “Enough Jeep” for your needs without overestimating what you’ll actually do in it. I’m a Dad, looking for a daily driver, that I can occasionally wheel.

To be fair to all my Rubi friends, the value is there. I’d never say they’re not worth the money. Just depends on what you’re doing.

Last thought: Whatever you do, do it for you, not for Hood Sticker Status.

 

[Windshieldfarmer]

For me I wanted a Rubicon for the occasional rock crawling I do in Colorado...once or twice a year. That said a built up Sport would likely suffice. I just wanted all of the goodies and can afford them at my stage in life. Candidly very few of us “need” a wrangler.

 

[FrostySerb]

All,

I apologize for responding to a half year idle thread, but having a lifted Sport on 35s with Sway-bar Quick Disconnects, I do have a pretty relevant perspective that I'd like to share.

I've been able to wheel my rig with open diffs (on both axles, not even an LSD) over many difficult to severe trails here in my home state of Colorado, all with remarkably great success. Sports are way more capable than what most people give them credit for. Especially if setup properly.

My desire was to see way more of my state by trekking into rather than bouncing upon every over-sized boulder along the way. Certainly, 'Stay-the-Trail' requires going over rather than around obstacles, and the lockers do crawl over the extreme crap better than anything, but I found a lot of enjoyment in doing these things with good Jeeping skill rather than shear brute force.

1. If the route is too severe, I'll find a different trail. I don't need to see every square inch of the Rocky Mountains. Anything within a few miles of the same mountain range is absolutely sufficient.

2. With careful consideration of the best approach and proper line, I haven't yet found an obstacle that I wasn't able to tackle. Granted, I tend to wheel with other experienced Jeepers that are more than happy to help solve and spot me within the less than extreme stuff.

3. My 2019 2-doorJL with the software implemented BLD (Brake Lock Differentials) works pretty amazingly great if I'm really (very) disciplined at keeping a light foot and using exactly only just enough torque, in order to keep from losing traction. Where the lockers allow most everyone to just muscle their way through most crap, open diffs require a whole different approach. Wheel slip is something that must carefully be both monitored and managed while maintaining forward momentum. More throttle is seldom ever the best solution.

4. Accomplishing the trails in a Sport where only Rubicon's tend to venture is a pretty good feeling. I'm not sure every Rubi driver could do whatever trail I do without their lockers. But I get it, why would you not use your available equipment? Still, I like to think of it as comparing a sail boat to a power cruiser. One simply requires a throttle, the other requires a little more skill, a lot of finesse and truthfully, some pretty good luck.

For me, this is what Jeeping is all about.

Clearly, having a Rubi and not using the lockers, unless becoming stuck, would provide the exact same experience, but part of the adrenaline rush is knowing that you don't have that as an option. I'm having more fun with the entire open diff complexity than I can adequately describe. If this makes any sense at all.

For you Rubicon drivers, probably not that much. For many of you, it's just about the badge rather than the accomplishment. To each their own. If this makes me an oddball, I'll wear that badge with honor.

And in all honesty, I just didn't have the damn deep pockets for a fribben Rubi. Otherwise I wouldn't be making these excuses.

Either way, I'm having a blast. Hope you're doing the same no matter what model and trim Wrangler you're driving.

Jay

Interesting point of view Jay and one that I respect, although I may not completely agree with it ... I do agree that a large % of folks buy it just for the sticker and the I have a factor”

Having built 3 jeeps and now on to my fourth ( 2 non and 2 rubicon models) the rubicon is a no brainer.

You seem to focus mainly on the lockers and disconnects ... when the real money savers in my opinion are the factory axles, gearing, fenders and for appearances the hood!
Taking the locker and disconnects out of the equation, those options alone more than outweigh the cost to add them to a sport between the parts and labor, 9 out of 10 Jeep owners won’t be messing with the gears themselves.

 

[jeepoch]

@FrostySerb,

I clearly did not intend to knock Rubicon's in any way. They are far superior trail machines in every metric when compared to nearly anything else.

My budget at the time of purchase was only around $30K. So (for me) a JL Rubicon was not feasible. The options were a used JKR or a new JL Sport. I liked the JL more than the JK. I really am liking this Jeep. But I have to live with it's decreased off-road capabilities. However, I've added about $7K in mods above that. So I have about as close to a Rubi as I can get without swapping out the open diff axles for lockers.

My point was that (for me) having a Sport without lockers requires a different way of thinking about how to tackle difficult obstacles. Rubi drivers, from my experience, by Jeeping alongside them, tend to trivialize the difficulty because they have every confidence of their rig's capabilities. Their skill-set is certainly enhanced by their equipment. Rubi's are indeed awesome.

For me, I'm trying to accomplish the same challenges without all the same cool stuff. The approach to difficult obstacle execution has to be a little more deliberate. I don't have the luxury of loosing traction on any three of the four wheels and expect to make it. With open diffs I absolutely need to concentrate on maintaining adequate traction on as many wheels as possible. I can generally only tolerate one wheel slipping on either axle at any instant (but not both simultaneously) in order to accomplish the same challenge. I need traction on three wheels (maybe just two but that requires some BLD help) whereas the Rubi only needs traction on one wheel to comfortly maintain momentum.

Rubi drivers (it seems, but I must be careful to not overly generalize) tend to believe that they can just muscle their way through most anything because of this advantage. Fortunately because of their lockers, they typically can. But not always, I've helped pull a few out of trouble.

That's simply my point. Sport drivers have a more complicated set of wheel dynamics to consider and manage. While that maybe intimidating for some, I find that for me it's part of the fun. My skill-set requires more of me because the capability of my machine is different. Notice I deliberately did not imply 'lacking'. I firmly believe I can put my Sport almost anywhere you'll find a Rubicon. But I'll let the really lifted, armor plated Rubi's tackle the extreme rock climbing crap. I'll watch...

Furthermore, the Brake Lock Differential (BLD) software gives way more functionality than pure open differentials but clearly nothing anywhere as good as true locked axles. But it's there. Something I really appreciate that the Jeep engineers have implemented. Allowing for torque to still be applied to the non-slipping wheel on either axle simultaneously is much better than a truly open diff. This really boosts my confidence tremendously. Interestingly, even the Rubi's enjoy this functionality when not-locked.

So yes I do have the lack of lockers on my brain. But in a good way. This is where I have to use my driving skill to overcome this specific lack of functionality. But I believe there is nowhere I couldn't point my Sport and it wouldn't get me there. This is one very capable Jeep.

Lastly, greater articulation with having disconnected sway bar links is certainly a very large factor in helping to maintain front axle traction. Keeping the wheels on the ground is always a good thing. Unfortunately however, this is something that has to be manually accomplished (in some way) on a Sport. I really like and recommend a Sway-Bar Link Quick Disconnect kit. The Rubi drivers of course, just press a pushbutton to disconnect theirs.

I also totally agree with you, that the lower gear ratio on the Sport axles are a disadvantage when riding on larger tires. But not overly so for 35s. Certainly the 3.45 gears on the stock Sport axles will pose problems for any larger diameter rubber, and regearing must be considered. But I'm not willing to incur that cost burden (yet). The 35s give me enough off-road capability while still being great as a daily driver. Especially with the 8-speed automatic, it handles the 35s with the 3.45 gears almost like it was primarily designed for them. The manual 6-speed transmission may be another story. Regearing may be recommended for any larger than stock tire on the Sport.

But by far the greatest increase in off-road capability for any Sport is modifying the build for increased clearance with a lift and investing in larger than stock tires. Sway-bar disconnects is a very close second. However, fenders, gears, and certainly cosmetic hood appearence is not within the wheelhouse of my primary concerns.

Do I wish for a Rubicon? You bet. Unfortunately for me I don't believe Santa will pull that one out of his bag. The Sport is what I can play with. I'm going to do the best I can with what I have.

I'm very glad and respectful of those that have the means and wherewithall to own Rubi's and especially when they're able to get out and use them to their full potential. I'm certainly a little jealous. Regardless, I'm using my Sport to it's modified (enhanced) potential and then some. I'm enjoying every minute.

Rubicon's are way cool, but they are not absolutely essential in having a great Jeeping experience. Especially off-road. Any Wrangler is a pretty amazing vehicle. It's truly up to you with what you do with it that most matters.

Best regards, Happy Jeeping
Jay

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