Thinking the unthinkable

[Old Jeeper]

Thank you for your thorough response @The Last Cowboy

To answer your question: the Quadratec wheels weigh around 28 lbs each, which is in line with the OE wheels (25 lbs), and lighter than most other aftermarket wheels (30+ lbs.).

The General Grabber ATX tires weigh 65 lbs each, which is towards the low-end for tires that size. The Nokian Outpost AT is by far the lightest I’ve seen for a 35-inch tire at only 55 lbs. For reference, the OE tires weigh around 45 lbs. Since I’d be going back to the OE 18” wheels, I’d be shaving around 13 lbs on each corner from where I am now.

Yes, things definitely changed with the lift. I wouldn’t say that I like the Jeep less, but it certainly made my feelings more extreme. I love how the Jeep rides, looks and drives off-road. But adding 3.5 inches was indeed a lot. Especially since a stock JL already sits higher than a JK.

Worse, I believe JL’s steering geometry, and the quality of the OE components, weren’t ready for prime time. Certainly not for the Mopar lift, notwithstanding the longer control arms included in the kit. I had to add an aftermarket adjustable HD track bar, a beefier aftermarket stabilizer, and had to have the TSB done, just to regain some steering feel.

I have owned 2-door Wranglers before. I am aware of their twitchiness at freeway speed. But they are a hoot to drive around town and even on twisty mountain roads.

But after reading everyone’s the comments on here, it wouldn’t make sense to ditch the 4-door Sahara. It still feels and smells brand-new, looks like a million bucks, and I love the Selec-Trac + LSD combo.

I think my best bet right now is, like you suggest, to try to reduce the unsprung weight and hope that that brings back some of the vehicle’s original playfulness and responsiveness.

If I regain 1 or 2 MPG, that be icing on the cake.

That twitchiness you speak of is mostly due to the Short WheelBase, then add suspension mods and that is how you get your Kicks on Route 66, aka Jeep SWB street dancing.

That said if you are an aggressive driver, it can handle like a dream. Most of my life I have driven 2 cars, BOTH SWBs, Jeeps, and Corvettes. Drive you Jeep like its a Corvette and you will like it...albeit I would be concerned with your 3.5 in lift, along with the + 1 in of the 35 tires you end up with almost 5 in of lift. Visually it looks cool, technically its a non-starter for the extreme rock guys. If you 5 in of lift I can do in about 3 in, IF you know how. Its not how high you lift it, but its how you lift it high! I have said this before Jeeps are a bag of tricks you got to know how to open the box.

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[aldo98229]

So I guess swapping out the Mopar LCAs with an adjustable set sounds like the next logical thing to try.

 

[yokramer]

Have you checked out the Mazda 3. The hot rod turbo version with AWD is a fantastic driving car per all the reviews. And about 20k cheaper than the JPS.

Another option, if you could find one is the Toyota GR Corolla.

Both of these cars have hatchback functionality and are lots of fun.

An oddball idea is a Buick Regal wagon. You can only get one used, but it's a fantastic car with a great 2.0 Turbo engine and AWD. It's made in Germany and feels like it.

Good to hear Mazda finally came back out with a Mazdaspeed3 even without the name, shame you cant get a 6-speed in it.

Problem with the GR is there are like 12 that are going to be made so good luck finding one.

 

[aldo98229]

Good to hear Mazda finally came back out with a Mazdaspeed3 even without the name, shame you cant get a 6-speed in it.

Problem with the GR is there are like 12 that are going to be made so good luck finding one.

Toyota sold 12,000 GR86s in 2022. So supply doesn’t seem to be that bad.

Either or, I am not getting rid my Fiat Spider any time soon.

 

[yokramer]

Toyota sold 12,000 GR86s in 2022. So supply doesn’t seem to be that bad.

Either or, I am not getting rid my Fiat Spider any time soon.

They specified the Corolla GR trim which seems like a solid car and probably a hoot to drive. However 6600 Corolla GRs are only going to be produced and you know the markup on them will be ridiculous.

 

[Kyanche]

That said if you are an aggressive driver, it can handle like a dream. Most of my life I have driven 2 cars, BOTH SWBs, Jeeps, and Corvettes. Drive you Jeep like its a Corvette and you will like it...albeit I would be concerned with your 3.5 in lift, along with the + 1 in of the 35 tires you end up with almost 5 in of lift.

... how?! If you drove a Wrangler like a Corvette it'd flip over. The physics don't add up. Even if you lowered it and used a more aggressive suspension, they're not made for cornering at all.

I suppose by being RWD in 2hi, and by virtue of being made by mopar and having the same loose ESP control system that Dodge uses on the Charger and Challenger, it does let you slide the rear end around if you drive it aggressively, but still...... there are physical limitations for such a vehicle.

 

[tshaw2009]

I would say either a 2-Door Wrangler or maybe a Ford Maverick? Those things have fantastic reviews from what I've seen.

 

[aldo98229]

They specified the Corolla GR trim which seems like a solid car and probably a hoot to drive. However 6600 Corolla GRs are only going to be produced and you know the markup on them will be ridiculous.

Oh, yeah, I wasn’t thinking of the Corolla GR. It’s supposed to be an incredible car, but it’s not my cup of tea.

When the warranty on my Spider runs out, I may look into stuffing a larger turbo. An increase of only 20-30 HP would go a long way in a car that only weighs 2,300 lbs.

 

[pablo_max3045]

I NEVER said I got pricing off the US build tool...for an Engineer your reading comprehension skills suck:

I said> "They say the top model is over $100k. So Built one and picking the option and making a good guess as to what each one was worth, the it banged into $125 North!"

In my research, I found a recent interview with the guy who owns the rights and he stated he had invested over $1.5 Billion and said US models would be about $100k or more based upon model and options.

The screen shot you threw out was based upon Euro's and NOT the US Dollar. So coming out the chute your puppy hit the $89,XXX US mark BEFORE shipping and anything else.

In the US time you stack all the options (which is what I did and options std over there are NOT std over here) on and sitting on a showroom floor in Beverly Hils Ca you are looking at $125k price tag.

I was living in Germany in 1948, where were you...LOL

Who is this "they" person?
Link the source article or your simply full of shit.

Maybe you are not familiar with European pricing. The price you see includes the 19% VAT. This is why the list price in Germany will always be a lot higher than what you see in the US.
The US does have extra import duties on anything considered a truck in order to protect Ford and GM, but I think this is still under the weight limit to avoid that.
Generally, it does not matter what the car is. BMW, Merc, VW, Tesla and so on, the price is the US will be a lot less than we pay over here. It's mt going to be 125k. Your math does not work.

Why would I give a single f where you were in 1948? I was in California in 1975, when I was born. What the fuck does that have to do with anything?

 

[aldo98229]

Would you guys please stop the swearing and take your infighting elsewhere? Your ongoing argument has very little to do with the thread and is disrupting it.

Thank you!

 

[yokramer]

Oh, yeah, I wasn’t thinking of the Corolla GR. It’s supposed to be an incredible car, but it’s not my cup of tea.

When the warranty on my Spider runs out, I may look into stuffing a larger turbo. An increase of only 20-30 HP would go a long way in a car that only weighs 2,300 lbs.

Yea the latest Gen Miata/Spider is an amazing car for sure. Brought it back to the roots of the NA/NB Miatas.

 

[carmigo]

My 2018 Sahara turned three years old last November. It only has 16,300 miles. It has Mopar lift, 35-inch tires, 4.88 gears, is fully equipped and has given me very few problems.

I’ve owned Wranglers for 14 years. But I barely drive this Jeep any more. Every time I get a chance, I hop in the Fiat Spider instead. I prefer the maneuverability, the precise steering, the fuel economy.

I don’t off-road like I used to anymore; I think I have developed a mental blockage towards bashing such a beautiful —and expensive— Jeep against the rocks. Driving the Jeep around town and on the freeway seems to have become a chore for some reason.

But I don’t know what else to get. Ideally, I’d want something a little nimbler, with AWD/4WD, that is comfortable, with room for four, is easy on gas, fun to drive, and doesn’t cost an arm an a leg. Body-on-frame preferred, but not required.

A few months back I placed an order for a 2023 Mini Clubman John Cooper Works. After waiting eight months, when the vehicle finally arrived I couldn’t pull the trigger. Paying $51,000 for a Mini was one of my holdbacks; another was my lack of trust in German/British durability. Otherwise, I think the vehicle would have fit the bill.

I don’t know what else get, though. I owned a Tacoma before: loved the solidity but hated the power train and the seats; I kind of like GMC Canyon AT4 but the interior is just old. I’m not considering Broncos. Grand Cherokee is out of the question: I’m not spending that kind of money, and I am pretty much done with Jeep dealers. I don’t like Subarus; they look like shit. But I’m open to Toyotas, Mazdas, GMs, and to some Hondas.

Any other thoughts? Suggestions? Keep the Jeep and suck it up...?

Hey there! Parting ways with a car can be difficult but sometimes it's the only way to find a better fit. Personally other than my jeep, I prefer Toyotas and Honda. Perhaps you could test-drive some options before you decide. If you are thinking about selling your jeep, we can help you get a great offer on it so you have some extra money!

 

[Old Jeeper]

... how?! If you drove a Wrangler like a Corvette it'd flip over. The physics don't add up. Even if you lowered it and used a more aggressive suspension, they're not made for cornering at all.

I suppose by being RWD in 2hi, and by virtue of being made by mopar and having the same loose ESP control system that Dodge uses on the Charger and Challenger, it does let you slide the rear end around if you drive it aggressively, but still...... there are physical limitations for such a vehicle.

You would be surprised how well you can make a Jeep perform, its the SWB not like the JLUs. I NEVER said anything about sliding and all they BS you see by the ricers and in the movies. They are good performers, you got a tight suspension, SWB and its very responsive to input.

 

[The Last Cowboy]

I had to do an emergency brake/lane change at 45 MPH a couple months ago. I have a lot of high performance and track driving experience, so training and experience took over before I could think about what was happening. My 2 stock door and MTs handled it shockingly well, even with the tires at near lockup.

 

[Steph1]

This: pair of geometry correction brackets

I've recently been called back to work (instead of working from home) and had to remove an inch of lift for my Jeep to fit in the underground garage. While it did take a bit away from the look (now only lifted half an inch over a stock rubi), I was surprised at how tight my steering was tighter. I mean I already have the Mopar lower front control arms and never fealth the jeep wondered or anything, but now it is tight. I'm certain that the caster and lower center of gravity is responsible for that , so drop brackets should do the trick.

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