Thinking the unthinkable

[leeshuming]

Tesla's Cybertruck or the Semi Truck.

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[dragoneggs]

I think the solution is simple. Two vehicles minimum. Jeep has to be one of them whether it is your Sahara or other. Your other vehicle should satisfy your other itch. If you need to make a move away from your Sahara… then by all means do it… to get another JEEP. More free counseling here.

 

[nomographer]

From Aldo's Jeep on Valentine's Day.

Everyone said we were perfect together. They saw us having so much fun at the beginning. We helped each other grow. They said we'd be together for years.

But then your attention started to turn. I knew you had been with lots of Jeeps in the past but never expected to be ignored. Now I sit waiting in a dark corner. When you think about me, I've heard sometimes you even say hurtful things. You barely glance my way but are always out running around.

I'm so sad and you don't even see how lonely I am. If you've moved on, why can't I?

 

[Old Jeeper]

Sorry, but I do not see where you are getting that price because it is completely wrong. There are no prices on the US configuration tool.
The trail version is 75k Euro. That is 8k less than a wrangler here.
Front and rear diff locks are standard as are the snorkel and rock sliders. It is 2k more if you want leather.

I think it isnt possible to even get the price that high if you want to.
Here is the price with factory winch and roof rack, plus ladder also...

I NEVER said I got pricing off the US build tool...for an Engineer your reading comprehension skills suck:

I said> "They say the top model is over $100k. So Built one and picking the option and making a good guess as to what each one was worth, the it banged into $125 North!"

In my research, I found a recent interview with the guy who owns the rights and he stated he had invested over $1.5 Billion and said US models would be about $100k or more based upon model and options.

The screen shot you threw out was based upon Euro's and NOT the US Dollar. So coming out the chute your puppy hit the $89,XXX US mark BEFORE shipping and anything else.

In the US time you stack all the options (which is what I did and options std over there are NOT std over here) on and sitting on a showroom floor in Beverly Hils Ca you are looking at $125k price tag.

I was living in Germany in 1948, where were you...LOL

 

[Old Jeeper]

2165 rpm at 65 mph with 33’s, 2232 with 32’s, mpg would suffer, increased engine wear.

I just check my city/Hwy 90% city 10% Hwy at 65 mph. My JLR which only has 752 mi on it averaged 15.6 mpg, 4:88s + 35 x 12:50 x 17s at 34 psi, auto trans

 

[aldo98229]

I just check my city/Hwy 90% city 10% Hwy at 65 mph. My JLR which only has 752 mi on it averaged 15.6 mpg, 4:88s + 35 x 12:50 x 17s at 34 psi, auto trans

I average the same on same gearing and tires. Only difference is I keep my tires at 29-30 PSI.

 

[Old Jeeper]

Yes, some of those TJs keep making me turn my head. Especially those LJs!

TJ/LJ. My 2006 LJ was a GREAT rig. I bought it and it was box stock, 18k mil all original. I used it on local trail runs that were just fun runs for overnight weekends. I took out the back seat and the passenger seat and slept in it, AC on hot nights and Heat on cold nights, along with all-night Sirrus radio tunes.

The longer wheelbase on the LJ really made wheel great. My TJ I stretched the wheelbase on almost 4 inches. Not easy but if you got a Miller welder, and understand suspension you can make it happen and no ONE will know it. Move the gas back add much of the rear stretch. It did make a noticeable difference in the rocks.

The TJ is a rolling bag of tricks IF you know how to turn them on and have a good welder. In rocks the suspension is the game and if you play it you make folks stand there and watch you and cannot believe their eyes. I NEVER told anyone how I did it. Just said I was lucky, picked a good line and I never used spotters.

 

[Old Jeeper]

I average the same on same gearing and tires. Only difference is I keep my tires at 29-30 PSI.

Prob the tire: 35 GY Duratracs seem to work best at 32-34. Whereas my 37 BFG KM2s I ran at 16-18 in the city and 18-20 on the highway. The BFGs have a stiffer sidewall, so the contact patch needs less psi to give a full contact on a TJR (weight). On the trail I ran 3-5 psi and at that the width did grow but the length of the contact patch really reached out and ZACTLY what you need in the rocks. So what that does at the 3-5 psi is extend your wheelbase. I run as much caster as I can to take advantage of that.

 

[The Last Cowboy]

@aldo98229, sounds like you like your Jeep less since the lift, re-gear, wheels and tires. The Generals are among the heavier tires on the market. I don't know how much the Qtech wheels weigh.

A lighter set of wheels and tires would help. I don't know anything about the Nokians, but I dislike the look of heavily serrated/textured sidewalls.

I can say that I really enjoy driving a 2 door. But, they aren't for everyone. The short wheelbase and high center of gravity aren't ideal for long high speed highway runs or curvy roads. But, you do adapt to it's quirkiness after a few months. I've always had a 2 door Jeep, so it's part of what i enjoy about them.

A 4 door handles differently and has more weight on a high center of gravity. You increased the CoG when you lifted it, then you increased unsprung weight with the heavy wheels and tires, and then compensated for that with lower gears. Switching to a higher end lift may get you a softer ride, but at the expense of handling.

Perhaps a 2 door, unmodifed, would suit you better. It's tough to resist the mod bug, but If you drive it stock for a few months it starts to get better.

Or maybe you could swap to some Rubicon take off axles with 4.10s, remove your lift and go back to 275/70/18s, a combo you posted many times that you liked. 4.10s would be perfect for 33.2" tires.

Too bad Mopar doesn't offer the JK8 conversion kit for the JL. Before I bought the Jeep I have now, I was looking for a JKU with rear collision damage so I could do the J8 conversion to it.

 

[aldo98229]

@aldo98229, sounds like you like your Jeep less since the lift, re-gear, wheels and tires. The Generals are among the heavier tires on the market. I don't know how much the Qtech wheels weigh.

A lighter set of wheels and tires would help. I don't know anything about the Nokians, but I dislike the look of heavily serrated/textured sidewalls.

I can say that I really enjoy driving a 2 door. But, they aren't for everyone. The short wheelbase and high center of gravity aren't ideal for long high speed highway runs or curvy roads. But, you do adapt to it's quirkiness after a few months. I've always had a 2 door Jeep, so it's part of what i enjoy about them.

A 4 door handles differently and has more weight on a high center of gravity. You increased the CoG when you lifted it, then you increased unsprung weight with the heavy wheels and tires, and then compensated for that with lower gears. Switching to a higher end lift may get you a softer ride, but at the expense of handling.

Perhaps a 2 door, unmodifed, would suit you better. It's tough to resist the mod bug, but If you drive it stock for a few months it starts to get better.

Or maybe you could swap to some Rubicon take off axles with 4.10s, remove your lift and go back to 275/70/18s, a combo you posted many times that you liked. 4.10s would be perfect for 33.2" tires.

Too bad Mopar doesn't offer the JK8 conversion kit for the JL. Before I bought the Jeep I have now, I was looking for a JKU with rear collision damage so I could do the J8 conversion to it.

Thank you for your thorough response @The Last Cowboy

To answer your question: the Quadratec wheels weigh around 28 lbs each, which is in line with the OE wheels (25 lbs), and lighter than most other aftermarket wheels (30+ lbs.).

The General Grabber ATX tires weigh 65 lbs each, which is towards the low-end for tires that size. The Nokian Outpost AT is by far the lightest I’ve seen for a 35-inch tire at only 55 lbs. For reference, the OE tires weigh around 45 lbs. Since I’d be going back to the OE 18” wheels, I’d be shaving around 13 lbs on each corner from where I am now.

Yes, things definitely changed with the lift. I wouldn’t say that I like the Jeep less, but it certainly made my feelings more extreme. I love how the Jeep rides, looks and drives off-road. But adding 3.5 inches was indeed a lot. Especially since a stock JL already sits higher than a JK.

Worse, I believe JL’s steering geometry, and the quality of the OE components, weren’t ready for prime time. Certainly not for the Mopar lift, notwithstanding the longer control arms included in the kit. I had to add an aftermarket adjustable HD track bar, a beefier aftermarket stabilizer, and had to have the TSB done, just to regain some steering feel.

I have owned 2-door Wranglers before. I am aware of their twitchiness at freeway speed. But they are a hoot to drive around town and even on twisty mountain roads.

After reading everyone’s the comments on here, it wouldn’t make sense to ditch the Sahara. It still feels and smells brand-new, looks like a million bucks, and I love the Selec-Trac + LSD combo.

I think my best bet right now is, like you suggest, to try to reduce the unsprung weight and hope that that brings back some of the vehicle’s original playfulness and responsiveness.

If I regain 1 or 2 MPG, that be icing on the cake.

 

[aldo98229]

Questions for the forum:

Do you guys think that swapping out the OE tie rod and drag link with a beefier aftermarket setup would help in regaining steering feel and response?

Or perhaps a pair of geometry correction brackets...? Keep in mind the Mopar kit came with longer control arms.

 

[The Last Cowboy]

It likely would. I would guess that if someone got in your Jeep and turned the steering wheel lock to lock, you would see flex in those components. The less flex the better when it comes to steering components. They are hollow tubes that work well with the OEM wheels and tires, but aren't ideal for anything more than that.

 

[dcmdon]

My 2018 Sahara turned three years old last November. It only has 16,300 miles. It has Mopar lift, 35-inch tires, 4.88 gears, is fully equipped and has given me very few problems.

I’ve owned Wranglers for 14 years. But I barely drive this Jeep any more. Every time I get a chance, I hop in the Fiat Spider instead. I prefer the maneuverability, the precise steering, the fuel economy.

I don’t off-road like I used to anymore; I think I have developed a mental blockage towards bashing such a beautiful —and expensive— Jeep against the rocks. Driving the Jeep around town and on the freeway seems to have become a chore for some reason.

But I don’t know what else to get. Ideally, I’d want something a little nimbler, with AWD/4WD, that is comfortable, with room for four, is easy on gas, fun to drive, and doesn’t cost an arm an a leg. Body-on-frame preferred, but not required.

A few months back I placed an order for a 2023 Mini Clubman John Cooper Works. After waiting eight months, when the vehicle finally arrived I couldn’t pull the trigger. Paying $51,000 for a Mini was one of my holdbacks; another was my lack of trust in German/British durability. Otherwise, I think the vehicle would have fit the bill.

I don’t know what else get, though. I owned a Tacoma before: loved the solidity but hated the power train and the seats; I kind of like GMC Canyon AT4 but the interior is just old. I’m not considering Broncos. Grand Cherokee is out of the question: I’m not spending that kind of money, and I am pretty much done with Jeep dealers. I don’t like Subarus; they look like shit. But I’m open to Toyotas, Mazdas, GMs, and to some Hondas.

Any other thoughts? Suggestions? Keep the Jeep and suck it up...?

Have you checked out the Mazda 3. The hot rod turbo version with AWD is a fantastic driving car per all the reviews. And about 20k cheaper than the JPS.

Another option, if you could find one is the Toyota GR Corolla.

Both of these cars have hatchback functionality and are lots of fun.

An oddball idea is a Buick Regal wagon. You can only get one used, but it's a fantastic car with a great 2.0 Turbo engine and AWD. It's made in Germany and feels like it.

 

[eck]

Questions for the forum:

Do you guys think that swapping out the OE tie rod and drag link with a beefier aftermarket setup would help in regaining steering feel and response?

Or perhaps a pair of geometry correction brackets...? Keep in mind the Mopar kit came with longer control arms.

Not a direct answer to your question, but since we have similar builds, I have the Dynatrac lift + Mopar LCAs + Rock Krawler adjustable front track bar + Teraflex rear track bar bracket, and I have zero complains on the steering while still using the OE drag link and tie rod.

I will note that I had the Teraflex front track bar before the Rock Krawler one, and the Teraflex one was a disaster. I tried to fiddle with it at least a half dozen times and could never get it to stop being vague and shimmying. Swapped it out with the Rock Krawler and immediately everything was perfect.

 

[GrayWolf.Overland]

Questions for the forum:

Do you guys think that swapping out the OE tie rod and drag link with a beefier aftermarket setup would help in regaining steering feel and response?

Or perhaps a pair of geometry correction brackets...? Keep in mind the Mopar kit came with longer control arms.

Mopar lift is a lot of lift for even Rubicon 4dr. That said, there longer LCA they provide is still woefully inadequate.

I only did 1.5" Clayton spring and Fox shocks to get exactly the space lost to 35s in radius. Even for that nominal lift the caster was poor and i had the following problems
- won't track straight even in low speeds
- loose steering feel in highway speeds

I installed adjustable LCAs when i did 35s, the ride handling improved, tracks well in low speeds.

2 months back i installed steersmarts tie rod, drag link and sector shaft brace. This was the cure all. Jeep tracks like an arrow even at highway speeds. Tight steering control with no slop.

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