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Stop/Start Not Ready-Battery Charging

WranglerMan

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@BRuby please don’t use repair mode unless the batteries are fully disconnected and even then I would not, the issue is it puts out 16+ volts and that’s a big NO for AGM batteries

Also if you are using two chargers at the same time make sure they are separated as I would think it would confuse the chargers and it surely confuse the IBS but that’s a guess on the IBS
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BRuby

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@BRuby please don’t use repair mode unless the batteries are fully disconnected and even then I would not, the issue is it puts out 16+ volts and that’s a big NO for AGM batteries

Also if you are using two chargers at the same time make sure they are separated as I would think it would confuse the chargers and it surely confuse the IBS but that’s a guess on the IBS
For the past 15-20 years we have smart charged and de-sulphated our batteries while hooked up without harm. Vehicles and boat engines always start first crank. All batteries last an extremely long time this way. The only time we had an AGM battery go was when it was not on a smart charger. It drained down too low and could run off the alternator - but once turned off - could not restart.

For the Jeep - each dissimilar AGM battery is separately charged and de-sulphated without issue for a couple years now. Both dissimilar batteries are fine - hold a charge and have been dealer load tested - and work as intended. Our batteries generally have lasted 10+ years until they needed to be replaced. So am fine with that lifespan.

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WranglerMan

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For the past 15-20 years we have smart charged and de-sulphated our batteries while hooked up without harm. Vehicles and boat engines always start first crank. All batteries last an extremely long time this way. The only time we had an AGM battery go was when it was not on a smart charger. It drained down too low and could run off the alternator - but once turned off - could not restart.

For the Jeep - each dissimilar AGM battery is separately charged and de-sulphated without issue for a couple years now. Both dissimilar batteries are fine - hold a charge and have been dealer load tested - and work as intended. Our batteries generally have lasted 10+ years until they needed to be replaced. So am fine with that lifespan.

Jeep Wrangler JL Stop/Start Not Ready-Battery Charging DD9A5924-5C77-440E-9E07-19369697DF4E


Jeep Wrangler JL Stop/Start Not Ready-Battery Charging DD9A5924-5C77-440E-9E07-19369697DF4E
All I can say is both NOCO and Full River advised against repair mode for my Full River 750’s unless they would not hold a charge and were disconnected, I did a test run a few times using repair and metered 16.4 volts and the battery maker advised that was a bit to warm so i now just use a my NOCO 10 when it’s parked 2-3 days in a row and once a month I use a Odyssey 20 6-stage for reconditioning as the voltage output runs right at 14.4-14.6 for 6-7 hrs.
 

BRuby

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All I can say is both NOCO and Full River advised against repair mode for my Full River 750’s unless they would not hold a charge and were disconnected, I did a test run a few times using repair and metered 16.4 volts and the battery maker advised that was a bit to warm so i now just use a my NOCO 10 when it’s parked 2-3 days in a row and once a month I use a Odyssey 20 6-stage for reconditioning as the voltage output runs right at 14.4-14.6 for 6-7 hrs.
Yeah hear you. But have learned firsthand what works practically for our use case. Allowing any battery to reach a point where it cannot hold a charge is extremely detrimental and leads directly to significant battery degradation and major sulfation of the plates. You should not allow this to ever occur if possible. Irregardless of what someone tells you. The only way to hope bringing it back at that point is to repair shock it and liquify crystals. We never allow our batteries to ever get to that stage. They are always properly smart charged and desulfated. And they always hold a proper load tested charge.

Practical Sailor demonstrates this with AGMs. Without desulfation capacity charge drops. This is normal. Desulfated capacity charge increases. This is also my experience. Low voltages unfortunately cannot adequately desulfate - so a higher short term voltage is necessary. This has worked for us for years without fail. This is why we always desulfate and our batteries stay fresh for years on end. This link from NOCO recommends desulfation as well.

Not desulfating in a timely manner will simply shorten the life of your batteries is all. Tons of links and articles confirming this. Anyways be very careful and do what you think is best.

https://no.co/blog/diagnose-and-treat-battery-sulfation
 

WranglerMan

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Yeah hear you. But have learned firsthand what works practically for our use case. Allowing any battery to reach a point where it cannot hold a charge is extremely detrimental and leads directly to significant battery degradation and major sulfation of the plates. You should not allow this to ever occur if possible. Irregardless of what someone tells you. The only way to hope bringing it back at that point is to repair shock it and liquify crystals. We never allow our batteries to ever get to that stage. They are always properly smart charged and desulfated. And they always hold a proper load tested charge.

Practical Sailor demonstrates this with AGMs. Without desulfation capacity charge drops. This is normal. Desulfated capacity charge increases. This is also my experience. Low voltages unfortunately cannot adequately desulfate - so a higher short term voltage is necessary. This has worked for us for years without fail. This is why we always desulfate and our batteries stay fresh for years on end. This link from NOCO recommends desulfation as well.

Not desulfating in a timely manner will simply shorten the life of your batteries is all. Tons of links and articles confirming this. Anyways be very careful and do what you think is best.

https://no.co/blog/diagnose-and-treat-battery-sulfation
I have no doubt that your routine works for your factory setup but as I said when I conversed with Full River on my Genesis setup and we looked at resistance thru the cables and also the resistance and parasitic draw from the Cole Hersey solenoid and smart isolation relay they recommended the NOCO 10 charging profile as it matched there curve pretty close even through the amp output was lower than the .20 amp hour bulk change and I also inquired about the batteries becoming sulfated and they advised the batteries i chose are very resilient to doing this as the plating is very close which reduces this action when mated to a high quality ABS vented casing but I needed to be mindful not to go below 80% DOD over and over as this affects the lifecycles but going below 80% consistently on any battery will reduce its life and then we touched on the “Recover” mode and they did not like the fact that the NOCO went to above 16 volts as these batteries have limited gel fluid in them due to the additional plates so when the battery is heated it tends to degas more than designed and they highly recommended to stay in the mid 14 volt range but I do know from testing that the NOCO ramps up periodically even on its normal charging and that’s to determine the maximum rate it can charge at based on their charging algorithm that they won’t disclose, heck they don’t even disclose charging curves so I also ask the Full River folks about that and they said that was fine but not at a continued high output.

I did however want something that would recondition without going over there suggested limit and that’s where the Odyssey 20 comes into play as it’s bulk charge runs in the 6-8 hr range at 14.6 but even at 20 amps it’s just under their .20% suggestion for amp output bulk charge but they said it would be 100% better than the recover mode at 16+ and said for warranty purposes I best stay under there limit and I’m sure they can tell if it’s been over charged.

We all need to be mindful if what batteries we have and charge them based on the makers recommendation and not just grab a charger off the shelf at a local auto store on Amazon it seems you have done some great research and found what works and I have to, batteries today are so much more costly than they were back in the day and now it seems vehicles have (2) of them so we all need to do what will give us the longest life possible

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Mikepa

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I've written quite a few posts regarding this very crappy ESS implementation on the non-eTorque JL's. However, I've resigned myself to the fact that this system is going to always fail, whether under warranty or not. This dissimilar sized battery design is never going to work reliably, especially as the batteries get older and weaker.

If it wasn't for the fact I really like my 2019, 2 door Sport S so much otherwise, this ESS nonsense would be enough to dump it altogether. The FCA engineers should be totally embarrassed and have their motorhead credentials perminently revoked.

So I am grudgingly burdened with externally charging these batteries with a battery maintainer at least once or twice a weak in order to prevent the "ESS System Disabled - Battery Charging" condition.

Sadly it's another Jeep Thing.

Jay
I have come to the same conclusion for my 2018 3.6L JLUR this weekend. My replacement F150 finally came in a week ago (after a seven month wait) which left my JL sitting in the driveway. When I went to use the JL, the error is back. Mind you, I replaced the AUX battery myself this past April after my dealer refused to replace it, saying my programmer [foolishly left in by me] was the culprit of the AUX battery fail. My biggest fear is the AUX battery continuously draining the main battery if left as is. Maybe time for the bypass hack to avoid this.

And I wonder if a recall has ever been discussed by FCA given the problems people have seen and CAFE needs for this "feature".

UPDATE: Went to move the JL last night and no go. Main battery dead. Thankfully I purchased an Odyssey replacement back in April when I replaced my AUX. Been sitting in the garage waiting for this to happen. That's less than three years for both OEM batteries with no auxiliary add-ons draining them. Guess we'll see how long replacements last.
 
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mwilk012

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I have come to the same conclusion for my 2018 3.6L JLUR this weekend. My replacement F150 finally came in a week ago (after a seven month wait) which left my JL sitting in the driveway. When I went to use the JL, the error is back. Mind you, I replaced the AUX battery myself this past April after my dealer refused to replace it, saying my programmer [foolishly left in by me] was the culprit of the AUX battery fail. My biggest fear is the AUX battery continuously draining the main battery if left as is. Maybe time for the bypass hack to avoid this.

And I wonder if a recall has ever been discussed by FCA given the problems people have seen and CAFE needs for this "feature".
Exactly what error is it?
 
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I have no doubt that your routine works for your factory setup but as I said when I conversed with Full River on my Genesis setup and we looked at resistance thru the cables and also the resistance and parasitic draw from the Cole Hersey solenoid and smart isolation relay they recommended the NOCO 10 charging profile as it matched there curve pretty close even through the amp output was lower than the .20 amp hour bulk change and I also inquired about the batteries becoming sulfated and they advised the batteries i chose are very resilient to doing this as the plating is very close which reduces this action when mated to a high quality ABS vented casing but I needed to be mindful not to go below 80% DOD over and over as this affects the lifecycles but going below 80% consistently on any battery will reduce its life and then we touched on the “Recover” mode and they did not like the fact that the NOCO went to above 16 volts as these batteries have limited gel fluid in them due to the additional plates so when the battery is heated it tends to degas more than designed and they highly recommended to stay in the mid 14 volt range but I do know from testing that the NOCO ramps up periodically even on its normal charging and that’s to determine the maximum rate it can charge at based on their charging algorithm that they won’t disclose, heck they don’t even disclose charging curves so I also ask the Full River folks about that and they said that was fine but not at a continued high output.

I did however want something that would recondition without going over there suggested limit and that’s where the Odyssey 20 comes into play as it’s bulk charge runs in the 6-8 hr range at 14.6 but even at 20 amps it’s just under their .20% suggestion for amp output bulk charge but they said it would be 100% better than the recover mode at 16+ and said for warranty purposes I best stay under there limit and I’m sure they can tell if it’s been over charged.

We all need to be mindful if what batteries we have and charge them based on the makers recommendation and not just grab a charger off the shelf at a local auto store on Amazon it seems you have done some great research and found what works and I have to, batteries today are so much more costly than they were back in the day and now it seems vehicles have (2) of them so we all need to do what will give us the longest life possible

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Chupacabra

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It's amazing that my last 3 cars with ESS of some kind (2 BMWs and a Subaru) all managed to work just fine with a single battery. Never had any problems with them, but this ridiculous 2-battery solution has been a pain in my butt. I replaced the AUX battery but the ESS is still not acting right, so perhaps it's my main battery. Will pull it and get it tested I guess.
 

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It's amazing that my last 3 cars with ESS of some kind (2 BMWs and a Subaru) all managed to work just fine with a single battery. Never had any problems with them, but this ridiculous 2-battery solution has been a pain in my butt. I replaced the AUX battery but the ESS is still not acting right, so perhaps it's my main battery. Will pull it and get it tested I guess.
The Europeans are shoving two batteries in them now too.
 

WranglerMan

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Maintenance on batteries is not so simple anymore and with what they cost we need to do all we can to learn the best way to manage them to give us the maximum life and my OCD runs like a freight train so when I have something I need to educate myself on I tend to focus 100% on that and just keep reading and reading and compare all the info.

Here is just another example of my over zealous OCD nature

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/my-testing-of-the-ibs-ibm-system.79412/
 

jwms

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I have owned a 2015 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk and a 2020 JL Wrangler- both with Auto Start/Stop and always after a week or so of daily driving after replacing the Start/Stop secondary battery it just goes back to saying Auto Start/Stop not working battery charging. Jeep just needs to scrap the feature because it is bull s***
 

mwilk012

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I have owned a 2015 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk and a 2020 JL Wrangler- both with Auto Start/Stop and always after a week or so of daily driving after replacing the Start/Stop secondary battery it just goes back to saying Auto Start/Stop not working battery charging. Jeep just needs to scrap the feature because it is bull s***
Are you using OEM batteries?
 

Jebiruph

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I have owned a 2015 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk and a 2020 JL Wrangler- both with Auto Start/Stop and always after a week or so of daily driving after replacing the Start/Stop secondary battery it just goes back to saying Auto Start/Stop not working battery charging. Jeep just needs to scrap the feature because it is bull s***
The Cherokee Auto Start/Stop is different than the JL, it only uses one battery, no aux battery. Did you ever try resetting the battery sensor to resolve battery charging issue?
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