Stop start not working (battery charging)

[BxFletcher]

Hey gang, I have the very same S/S issue. It started about 3 months ago. I just got home from the dealer, they actually said to me, “nothing is wrong because no error codes were thrown, you don’t drive it enough”. So, 50 miles a day, 25 each way, is not enough? It’s a 2021 that I picked up at the end of last October, exactly one year ago, with just over 16K miles on it. I could be wrong, but that seems ridiculous.

Sponsored

 

[Rhinebeck01]

Hey gang, I have the very same S/S issue. It started about 3 months ago. I just got home from the dealer, they actually said to me, “nothing is wrong because no error codes were thrown, you don’t drive it enough”. So, 50 miles a day, 25 each way, is not enough? It’s a 2021 that I picked up at the end of last October, exactly one year ago, with just over 16K miles on it. I could be wrong, but that seems ridiculous.

@BxFletcher

More often then not it is what the dealer states... the vehicle is not driven enough.

If you drive 50 miles a day and in that day you stop and turn off vehicle multiple times you may see you're JL is using more 12v then the 50 mile drive is allowing the alternator to produce.

IF you end up back at the dealership for this battery thing, ask to talk to the Service Manager... again talk to the Service Manager and not the Service Writer.

Politely ask that he/she have the Tech, load test each of your two batteries and to provide you with a printout of each of the 2 load tests.

IF either battery fails the load test, then indeed you have an iffy battery or iffy 2 batteries and you can get the dealer to replace under warranty.

The load testing takes a couple of hrs. of shop time, so very often they will not do proper load testing, but say they did or not even mention load testing to you.

Note: As you read battery related forum posts, you will find many JL owner's routinely use a 10amp battery tender/maintainer... they do this to keep the 12v up in their batteries when they do not drive enough to keep 2 healthy batteries charged enough to prevent ESS related nonsense.

.

 

[BxFletcher]

@BxFletcher

More often then not it is what the dealer states... the vehicle is not driven enough.

If you drive 50 miles a day and in that day you stop and turn off vehicle multiple times you may see you're JL is using more 12v then the 50 mile drive is allowing the alternator to produce.

IF you end up back at the dealership for this battery thing, ask to talk to the Service Manager... again talk to the Service Manager and not the Service Writer.

Politely ask that he/she have the Tech, load test each of your two batteries and to provide you with a printout of each of the 2 load tests.

IF either battery fails the load test, then indeed you have an iffy battery or iffy 2 batteries and you can get the dealer to replace under warranty.

The load testing takes a couple of hrs. of shop time, so very often they will not do proper load testing, but say they did or not even mention load testing to you.

Note: As you read battery related forum posts, you will find many JL owner's routinely use a 10amp battery tender/maintainer... they do this to keep the 12v up in their batteries when they do not drive enough to keep 2 healthy batteries charged enough to prevent ESS related nonsense.

.

Many thanks @Rhinebeck01. I do start and stop throughout the day and intend to minimize that. I’m wondering if I should unplug my dash cam when parked. It is always on in ‘parking mode’.

 

[Rhinebeck01]

Many thanks @Rhinebeck01. I do start and stop throughout the day and intend to minimize that. I’m wondering if I should unplug my dash cam when parked. It is always on in ‘parking mode’.

@BxFletcher

Sure anything that adds additional parasitic draw taken out of the picture would see the batteries becoming less depleted and thus the batteries needing less maintaining/ 12v in thanks to alternator or independent battery tender/maintainer..

Stellantis, in the Owner's Manual mentions about disconnecting batteries if the vehicle is to sit unused for X many days.... They do this, as even a totally stock JL, sitting parked/unused has significant parasitic draw. If it sits to long the batteries deplete and you end up with a no start to to battery depletion scenario.

 

[Fudster]

The Truth about ESS

Several factors play into why the ESS system in Wranglers/Gladiators have issues.

The first lies with the EPA rules for determining Malroney sticker gas mileage ratings that don't factor in a vehicle's ability to engage ESS much beyond its leaving the showroom. Such rules not only don't incentivize manufacturers to make ESS systems that will still engage 6 months to 6 years down the ownership road due to the cost of better components (that in part are passed on to the buyer,) but more robust ESS systems require larger batteries and alternators, which can eat away at the very fuel savings ESS systems are designed to produce, which are already small (but in aggregate significant) to begin with.

Another factor, already mentioned, is the large number of electronics in vehicles today and their parasitic draw when the vehicle is idle.

Another factor is the inconsistency in vehicle battery quality (still largely lead acid based) both within a single manufacturer and across the industry.

Another factor is that this lack of battery quality not only seems to be more the case in the smaller ESS battery size that Stellantis choose to run ESS, but, as alluded to prior, putting batteries in parallel, even of the same (AGM) chemistry, but of dissimilar sizes, will often cause the smaller of the batteries to cannibalize power from the larger to the detriment, in the longer term, of both.

It was smart for Stellantis to do an ESS system. To risk the higher MPG ratings and miss EPA determined fuel economy fleet ratings would have resulted in Stellantis facing whopping penalties (passed on to consumers. ) It was even smart for them to do an inexpensive one to control purchase costs we pay, when ESS systems don't save that much gasoline (so as to offset component cost. ) A better, if not pipe dream regulatory structure would have had the EPA rating ESS systems based in part on how many owners still successfully engage ESS at various time points into the ownership experience. That would have motivated more robust ESS systems across the entire ICE automotive playing field.

It was smart for Stellantis to do ESS with two batteries where many manufacturers use one. Many a Wrangler owner has aftermarket power drawing accessories not seen in “mom's minivan” (which runs one battery ESS,) that effectively require their own power source during ESS events so as to spare the main battery, which provides most of the cranking power to get the vehicle going after an ESS event concludes. Rephrased, one battery Wrangler ESS would have required its electrical engineers to be even more conservative regarding when to early terminate an ESS event, so as to preserve enough power in the one battery for engine cranking.

Stellantis was wise enough to realize that those who find their stock components inadequate, ESS or otherwise, will often find ways and vendors ready to meet their needs, whether that comes in the form of trickle charging to keep ESS working, especially on infrequently used short trip Wranglers, add ons like the the Genesis Offroad kit, or hacks to bypass the ESS battery and system--all of which, even the solar trickle charger's up front cost, eat away at ESS gasoline savings.

 

[Fudster]

Many thanks @Rhinebeck01. I do start and stop throughout the day and intend to minimize that. I’m wondering if I should unplug my dash cam when parked. It is always on in ‘parking mode’.

I run a parking based dash camera. It, like I hope yours does, has the ability for it to turn off once a certain voltage threshold is no longer met. This insures enough voltage to cold crank the vehicle.

Your dual battery JL's batteries are at all times connected in parallel but in instant at cold crank and during ESS events. So both get depleted by the dash camera.

I would be very pleasantly surprised to find ESS routinely working for you, especially initially into a longer trip, if using a parking dash camera without trickle charging your JL while at rest.

Sponsored