Stop/Start Not Ready-Battery Charging

BRuby

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I wish I could convince you it’s a great design but FCA dropped the ball on this design using it on a Jeep Wrangler.

If your Jeep sits a lot it’s best to put it on a tender/maintainer that is sized correctly for the stock batteries so like a 5 amp NOCO but in all honesty I believe you could use a 10 amp NOCO as when the Jeep is idle the batteries are connected as one so it’s just one big battery but that smaller motorcycle ESS battery is just sad as it’s not sized the same in amp hours as the 700 aH full size battery plus I honestly don’t believe the batteries that are used are of acceptable quality.

There are ways around bypassing the baby battery and just maintaining it for backup purposes but as we all know batteries start to degrade from day one and regardless of what batteries are used they all have a life cycle but some have shorter lives than others based on their design and quality of construction.

You as a Jeep owner have to decide what your needs are and go from there but the choices are pretty simple

1. Maintain the original design and just be diligent on maintaining the factory batteries

2. Bypass the aux battery and DON‘T USE ESS but still maintain them.

3. Go to some type of better dual battery system ( There are a few choices )

Regardless of what battery system you go with if your Jeep is not driven a lot use a quality maintainer to keep the batteries at peak so you get the maximum life from them.
Yep.

Since our Jeep is only used intermittently - we charge the aux with a NOCO5 and the main with a NOCO7200. This way both dissimilar sized batteries are smart maintained optimally and de-sulphated separately using the Repair mode. Dealer has load tested and both 2018 OEM batteries are fine and holding a proper charge. We never have a ESS problem. Each battery holds a different voltage when measured with a multimeter - which is expected.

As posted before - more than likely Stellantis put in dissimilar sized batteries to simply cut costs - and it seems hooking them up in parallel has created a battery lifespan problem. Generally dissimilar batteries should never be connected in parallel - and charged up together. Since one will drain the other and then die prematurely. Just is not a good idea and is a piss poor Jeep design.

For those concerned of a dead aux creating a non-start problem - test yours by disconnecting your aux neg lead. Your Jeep should not start on the first press - then start on the second press with a ESS disabled dash message and icon popping up. Ask your dealer to flash the necessary bypass code to enable this. Otherwise a dead aux might leave you stranded without a bypass.

We have 2 CTEK and 4 NOCO smart chargers with multiple batteries hooked up 24/7. All batteries are fine and engines always start first crank - even after sitting idle for months at a time over winter. Keeping batteries properly smart charged and de-sulphated is definitely key to maximizing our battery lifespans. PITA to separate on the Jeep - but it is what it is.

In reality - Jeep should have just designed something like the Genesis using 2 identical full size batteries with easy access.

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Austin23

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Yep.

Since our Jeep is only used intermittently - we charge the aux with a NOCO5 and the main with a NOCO7200. This way both dissimilar sized batteries are smart maintained optimally and de-sulphated separately using the Repair mode. Dealer has load tested and both 2018 OEM batteries are fine and holding a proper charge. We never have a ESS problem. Each battery holds a different voltage when measured with a multimeter - which is expected.

As posted before - more than likely Stellantis put in dissimilar sized batteries to simply cut costs - and it seems hooking them up in parallel has created a battery lifespan problem. Generally dissimilar batteries should never be connected in parallel - and charged up together. Since one will drain the other and then die prematurely. Just is not a good idea and is a piss poor Jeep design.

For those concerned of a dead aux creating a non-start problem - test yours by disconnecting your aux neg lead. Your Jeep should not start on the first press - then start on the second press with a ESS disabled dash message and icon popping up. Ask your dealer to flash the necessary bypass code to enable this. Otherwise a dead aux might leave you stranded without a bypass.

We have 2 CTEK and 4 NOCO smart chargers with multiple batteries hooked up 24/7. All batteries are fine and engines always start first crank - even after sitting idle for months at a time over winter. Keeping batteries properly smart charged and de-sulphated is definitely key to maximizing our battery lifespans. PITA to separate on the Jeep - but it is what it is.

In reality - Jeep should have just designed something like the Genesis using 2 identical full size batteries with easy access.

7F711A56-399E-42ED-9CAE-3124912C8DB0.jpeg


40108F2C-2FA0-4515-90C3-122B04FB7519.png
I 2nd your last paragraph.
 

WranglerMan

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@BRuby please don’t use repair mode unless the batteries are fully disconnected and even then I would not, the issue is it puts out 16+ volts and that’s a big NO for AGM batteries

Also if you are using two chargers at the same time make sure they are separated as I would think it would confuse the chargers and it surely confuse the IBS but that’s a guess on the IBS
 

BRuby

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@BRuby please don’t use repair mode unless the batteries are fully disconnected and even then I would not, the issue is it puts out 16+ volts and that’s a big NO for AGM batteries

Also if you are using two chargers at the same time make sure they are separated as I would think it would confuse the chargers and it surely confuse the IBS but that’s a guess on the IBS
For the past 15-20 years we have smart charged and de-sulphated our batteries while hooked up without harm. Vehicles and boat engines always start first crank. All batteries last an extremely long time this way. The only time we had an AGM battery go was when it was not on a smart charger. It drained down too low and could run off the alternator - but once turned off - could not restart.

For the Jeep - each dissimilar AGM battery is separately charged and de-sulphated without issue for a couple years now. Both dissimilar batteries are fine - hold a charge and have been dealer load tested - and work as intended. Our batteries generally have lasted 10+ years until they needed to be replaced. So am fine with that lifespan.

DE1B7F05-1D12-4CA2-8F2C-C9F790FDDE36.png


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WranglerMan

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For the past 15-20 years we have smart charged and de-sulphated our batteries while hooked up without harm. Vehicles and boat engines always start first crank. All batteries last an extremely long time this way. The only time we had an AGM battery go was when it was not on a smart charger. It drained down too low and could run off the alternator - but once turned off - could not restart.

For the Jeep - each dissimilar AGM battery is separately charged and de-sulphated without issue for a couple years now. Both dissimilar batteries are fine - hold a charge and have been dealer load tested - and work as intended. Our batteries generally have lasted 10+ years until they needed to be replaced. So am fine with that lifespan.

DE1B7F05-1D12-4CA2-8F2C-C9F790FDDE36.png


DD9A5924-5C77-440E-9E07-19369697DF4E.png
All I can say is both NOCO and Full River advised against repair mode for my Full River 750’s unless they would not hold a charge and were disconnected, I did a test run a few times using repair and metered 16.4 volts and the battery maker advised that was a bit to warm so i now just use a my NOCO 10 when it’s parked 2-3 days in a row and once a month I use a Odyssey 20 6-stage for reconditioning as the voltage output runs right at 14.4-14.6 for 6-7 hrs.
 

BRuby

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All I can say is both NOCO and Full River advised against repair mode for my Full River 750’s unless they would not hold a charge and were disconnected, I did a test run a few times using repair and metered 16.4 volts and the battery maker advised that was a bit to warm so i now just use a my NOCO 10 when it’s parked 2-3 days in a row and once a month I use a Odyssey 20 6-stage for reconditioning as the voltage output runs right at 14.4-14.6 for 6-7 hrs.
Yeah hear you. But have learned firsthand what works practically for our use case. Allowing any battery to reach a point where it cannot hold a charge is extremely detrimental and leads directly to significant battery degradation and major sulfation of the plates. You should not allow this to ever occur if possible. Irregardless of what someone tells you. The only way to hope bringing it back at that point is to repair shock it and liquify crystals. We never allow our batteries to ever get to that stage. They are always properly smart charged and desulfated. And they always hold a proper load tested charge.

Practical Sailor demonstrates this with AGMs. Without desulfation capacity charge drops. This is normal. Desulfated capacity charge increases. This is also my experience. Low voltages unfortunately cannot adequately desulfate - so a higher short term voltage is necessary. This has worked for us for years without fail. This is why we always desulfate and our batteries stay fresh for years on end. This link from NOCO recommends desulfation as well.

Not desulfating in a timely manner will simply shorten the life of your batteries is all. Tons of links and articles confirming this. Anyways be very careful and do what you think is best.

https://no.co/blog/diagnose-and-treat-battery-sulfation
 

WranglerMan

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Yeah hear you. But have learned firsthand what works practically for our use case. Allowing any battery to reach a point where it cannot hold a charge is extremely detrimental and leads directly to significant battery degradation and major sulfation of the plates. You should not allow this to ever occur if possible. Irregardless of what someone tells you. The only way to hope bringing it back at that point is to repair shock it and liquify crystals. We never allow our batteries to ever get to that stage. They are always properly smart charged and desulfated. And they always hold a proper load tested charge.

Practical Sailor demonstrates this with AGMs. Without desulfation capacity charge drops. This is normal. Desulfated capacity charge increases. This is also my experience. Low voltages unfortunately cannot adequately desulfate - so a higher short term voltage is necessary. This has worked for us for years without fail. This is why we always desulfate and our batteries stay fresh for years on end. This link from NOCO recommends desulfation as well.

Not desulfating in a timely manner will simply shorten the life of your batteries is all. Tons of links and articles confirming this. Anyways be very careful and do what you think is best.

https://no.co/blog/diagnose-and-treat-battery-sulfation
I have no doubt that your routine works for your factory setup but as I said when I conversed with Full River on my Genesis setup and we looked at resistance thru the cables and also the resistance and parasitic draw from the Cole Hersey solenoid and smart isolation relay they recommended the NOCO 10 charging profile as it matched there curve pretty close even through the amp output was lower than the .20 amp hour bulk change and I also inquired about the batteries becoming sulfated and they advised the batteries i chose are very resilient to doing this as the plating is very close which reduces this action when mated to a high quality ABS vented casing but I needed to be mindful not to go below 80% DOD over and over as this affects the lifecycles but going below 80% consistently on any battery will reduce its life and then we touched on the “Recover” mode and they did not like the fact that the NOCO went to above 16 volts as these batteries have limited gel fluid in them due to the additional plates so when the battery is heated it tends to degas more than designed and they highly recommended to stay in the mid 14 volt range but I do know from testing that the NOCO ramps up periodically even on its normal charging and that’s to determine the maximum rate it can charge at based on their charging algorithm that they won’t disclose, heck they don’t even disclose charging curves so I also ask the Full River folks about that and they said that was fine but not at a continued high output.

I did however want something that would recondition without going over there suggested limit and that’s where the Odyssey 20 comes into play as it’s bulk charge runs in the 6-8 hr range at 14.6 but even at 20 amps it’s just under their .20% suggestion for amp output bulk charge but they said it would be 100% better than the recover mode at 16+ and said for warranty purposes I best stay under there limit and I’m sure they can tell if it’s been over charged.

We all need to be mindful if what batteries we have and charge them based on the makers recommendation and not just grab a charger off the shelf at a local auto store on Amazon it seems you have done some great research and found what works and I have to, batteries today are so much more costly than they were back in the day and now it seems vehicles have (2) of them so we all need to do what will give us the longest life possible

0391A89E-0722-4F31-80EC-E54E448C0CC7.png
DD2A8DD2-B6E9-48AD-ADAF-191A895E6169.png
6CC8F2C6-173C-4CB3-AC6B-32E6D388C22F.png
 

Mikepa

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I've written quite a few posts regarding this very crappy ESS implementation on the non-eTorque JL's. However, I've resigned myself to the fact that this system is going to always fail, whether under warranty or not. This dissimilar sized battery design is never going to work reliably, especially as the batteries get older and weaker.

If it wasn't for the fact I really like my 2019, 2 door Sport S so much otherwise, this ESS nonsense would be enough to dump it altogether. The FCA engineers should be totally embarrassed and have their motorhead credentials perminently revoked.

So I am grudgingly burdened with externally charging these batteries with a battery maintainer at least once or twice a weak in order to prevent the "ESS System Disabled - Battery Charging" condition.

Sadly it's another Jeep Thing.

Jay
I have come to the same conclusion for my 2018 3.6L JLUR this weekend. My replacement F150 finally came in a week ago (after a seven month wait) which left my JL sitting in the driveway. When I went to use the JL, the error is back. Mind you, I replaced the AUX battery myself this past April after my dealer refused to replace it, saying my programmer [foolishly left in by me] was the culprit of the AUX battery fail. My biggest fear is the AUX battery continuously draining the main battery if left as is. Maybe time for the bypass hack to avoid this.

And I wonder if a recall has ever been discussed by FCA given the problems people have seen and CAFE needs for this "feature".

UPDATE: Went to move the JL last night and no go. Main battery dead. Thankfully I purchased an Odyssey replacement back in April when I replaced my AUX. Been sitting in the garage waiting for this to happen. That's less than three years for both OEM batteries with no auxiliary add-ons draining them. Guess we'll see how long replacements last.
 
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mwilk012

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I have come to the same conclusion for my 2018 3.6L JLUR this weekend. My replacement F150 finally came in a week ago (after a seven month wait) which left my JL sitting in the driveway. When I went to use the JL, the error is back. Mind you, I replaced the AUX battery myself this past April after my dealer refused to replace it, saying my programmer [foolishly left in by me] was the culprit of the AUX battery fail. My biggest fear is the AUX battery continuously draining the main battery if left as is. Maybe time for the bypass hack to avoid this.

And I wonder if a recall has ever been discussed by FCA given the problems people have seen and CAFE needs for this "feature".
Exactly what error is it?
 
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I have no doubt that your routine works for your factory setup but as I said when I conversed with Full River on my Genesis setup and we looked at resistance thru the cables and also the resistance and parasitic draw from the Cole Hersey solenoid and smart isolation relay they recommended the NOCO 10 charging profile as it matched there curve pretty close even through the amp output was lower than the .20 amp hour bulk change and I also inquired about the batteries becoming sulfated and they advised the batteries i chose are very resilient to doing this as the plating is very close which reduces this action when mated to a high quality ABS vented casing but I needed to be mindful not to go below 80% DOD over and over as this affects the lifecycles but going below 80% consistently on any battery will reduce its life and then we touched on the “Recover” mode and they did not like the fact that the NOCO went to above 16 volts as these batteries have limited gel fluid in them due to the additional plates so when the battery is heated it tends to degas more than designed and they highly recommended to stay in the mid 14 volt range but I do know from testing that the NOCO ramps up periodically even on its normal charging and that’s to determine the maximum rate it can charge at based on their charging algorithm that they won’t disclose, heck they don’t even disclose charging curves so I also ask the Full River folks about that and they said that was fine but not at a continued high output.

I did however want something that would recondition without going over there suggested limit and that’s where the Odyssey 20 comes into play as it’s bulk charge runs in the 6-8 hr range at 14.6 but even at 20 amps it’s just under their .20% suggestion for amp output bulk charge but they said it would be 100% better than the recover mode at 16+ and said for warranty purposes I best stay under there limit and I’m sure they can tell if it’s been over charged.

We all need to be mindful if what batteries we have and charge them based on the makers recommendation and not just grab a charger off the shelf at a local auto store on Amazon it seems you have done some great research and found what works and I have to, batteries today are so much more costly than they were back in the day and now it seems vehicles have (2) of them so we all need to do what will give us the longest life possible

0391A89E-0722-4F31-80EC-E54E448C0CC7.png
DD2A8DD2-B6E9-48AD-ADAF-191A895E6169.png
6CC8F2C6-173C-4CB3-AC6B-32E6D388C22F.png
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Chupacabra

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It's amazing that my last 3 cars with ESS of some kind (2 BMWs and a Subaru) all managed to work just fine with a single battery. Never had any problems with them, but this ridiculous 2-battery solution has been a pain in my butt. I replaced the AUX battery but the ESS is still not acting right, so perhaps it's my main battery. Will pull it and get it tested I guess.
 

mwilk012

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It's amazing that my last 3 cars with ESS of some kind (2 BMWs and a Subaru) all managed to work just fine with a single battery. Never had any problems with them, but this ridiculous 2-battery solution has been a pain in my butt. I replaced the AUX battery but the ESS is still not acting right, so perhaps it's my main battery. Will pull it and get it tested I guess.
The Europeans are shoving two batteries in them now too.
 

WranglerMan

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Maintenance on batteries is not so simple anymore and with what they cost we need to do all we can to learn the best way to manage them to give us the maximum life and my OCD runs like a freight train so when I have something I need to educate myself on I tend to focus 100% on that and just keep reading and reading and compare all the info.

Here is just another example of my over zealous OCD nature

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/my-testing-of-the-ibs-ibm-system.79412/
 
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